EagleInKY

Amen Brother Bob! I'm always amazed when a parent or youth will say that it's not his fault he is behind, when he chose not to attend the activity where we worked on the requirements he needs to fulfill. We always tell the scouts what is going to be done on a campout (lashing skills, compass skills, etc.). That way they can't say they didn't know they were going to miss them. As for your original posts: We split up the 1st year scouts for the instruction portion of the meeting. We bring them back together for the patrol activities. Ditto Bob's note. Again, don't meaure by this. Last year, I made a mistake in pushing the first year scouts too hard. Some came back with six merit badges. But it was too much. They didn't have enough time to play and just have fun. I'm going to strongly encourage at least one free period (to work on MBs) and one period for swimming or fishing. This will leave them more free time in the evening. Let the boys figure this one out. You can encourage them along certain directions, but let them figure out what they want to do.

I've used the "we have to have more people trained plea, and it's worked to a small extent. One trick I've seen is arranging to host a training on a time schedule that works for your troop. For example, if your troop meeting is on Monday night, offer to host a district training at your meeting place. Then encourage them on the basis of not only needing the training, but that we are the host as well. Obviously, you'll have to keep some leaders involved with the troop meeting, but hopefully you'll get a bunch of them there. Another approach that we're trying in our district is the old "Train the trainer" approach. Each unit is encouraged to have a person trained to be a trainer. Then, you can work the training in at your convenience. You could even schedule it during a campout, during a few committee meetings, or during a troop meeting or event. Good luck, it's a tough task!

I went in 80, 82 and 84. The third time out, we got lost on the first day. I was talking to the ranger later and asked if that was planned, he just smiled and said "Nah, we wouldn't do anything like that". The majority of people I've talked to over the years have had the same experience. It won't always happen, but it's a chance to demonstrate to the boys the importance of paying attention and working together. The ranger usually has another surprise the first night, but I won't spoil that for you.

The year we had two crews, we divided by ability. The stronger crew did a northern country trip over several peaks (including Baldy, of course). The second crew hit the southern country on an entry-level trek. We met up on day 9 along the Tooth of Time ridge. We then hiked into base camp as one big crew, It was a great experience for all. (Especially me, since my dad and brother were on the 2nd crew). BTW, all crews get lost the first day. It's part of the plan.

Ironman - Our program is fairly linear, but not as much as yours sounds. We do focus on Tenderfoot requirements during the first two months. Our goal is to provide all of the opportunities they need in that time to earn the Tenderfoot Rank. After that, we do bounce around a little. For example, we may have a campout where we do lots of knots and lashings. The boys may sign off on all of the related work at each rank level. Some will, but others won't. Some requirements have to be spread out. For example, being head cook on a campout cannot be done by everyone at once. Therefore, we rotate through the boys. We reward the boys that are showing the most initiative by giving them the opportunity to do that first. In reality, it doesn't impact anyone's rank advancment, because they all get it done before they're ready for First Class. As we're nearing the end of the "Boy scout year", I'm reflecting on how our 8 first year scouts are doing. Three are about ready for their FC BOR (within the next couple of weeks). Three more are 2nd Class and are on track to make FC during the Spring. Two others are still at Tenderfoot. Both are close, but can't close it out (one is lazy, the other has an attitude problem). Overall, I'm pretty pleased with the progress they are making.

Wheeler, Most of us come to this site to discuss program ideas, issues with our units or boys, or just have fun interaction with other scouters. We're really not that interested in how Socrates words applies to what we're doing. While your posts are obviously well thought out and may be very true, they just aren't that relevant to most of us. I'm sure you'll look down your nose at me and see me as some sort of buffoon, but I'm just a guy trying to do my best for Scouting. Your posts make me tired. Find another board or try to limit them to maybe one a week. Now, how do you use that ignore user capability?

We didn't cancel any campouts last year, but we did plan some alternatives to camping. One weekend we did an "Outdoor Skills day". It was on a Saturday, started in the morning and went into the afternoon. We worked on Toten Chip, Firem'n Chit and other basics. They had a good time. Also, this winter, we changed one campout to a lock-in. We were trying to schedule a campout in early March, but the boys didn't want to do it. They're kind of afraid of the cold after a cold, wet Klondike a couple of weeks ago. We've decided to make a trip up to a ski slope to do some snow tubing and just have fun. We won't be spending the night, but it still gives them an activity and a chance to bond.

My son is getting ready to start Family Life. I think he's already chosen his project (he may still change his mind). He's planning to clean out the garage, re-paint the floor and walls, and restock it (including some new storage stuff). I hope he goes through with it. If he doesn't, it's going to be my project. ;-)

Manyirons - Thanks for the Troop100 link. I haven't looked at it closely yet, but it looks like a well thought-out structure of a First Year program. I like to be a little more flexible than this, but it certainly can be a help to the PLC and the ASM that works with the new scouts. We use a "Parent's Handbook" to help educate them about Boy Scouts and our troop. It covers policies (financial, uniforming, etc.). It also explains the differences between Cubs & Boy Scouts. On the night of our Webelos Open House, we take the parents into another room to walk through this handbook. I know some don't like "troop policies", but I can assure you that we are not adding or taking away from any requirements for joining or advancment. It simply serves as a vehicle to set expectations. Even with that, however, parents struggle with the change. It's different, and they have to work through it. I tell them that just as the boys have to "be prepared", so do they. They have to be prepared to see their boys struggle and learn from their mistakes. But they also need to be prepared for the great feeling of pride they'll have when they see them succeed on their own!

We separate the AOL from the bridging ceremony as well. We recognize the Webelos 1 with the Webelos Rank and the Webelos 2 with the AOL at the Blue & Gold Banquet. We reserve this night to recognize them, since they have reached the pinnacle of Cub Scouting. They are put on a pedestal. We talk alot about their accomplishments and recognize the great work they've done. It's a great night for them and their parents. We conduct Crossover at the March pack meeting. We have SMs and Scouts from the troops to which they are crossing there to welcome them. It is another special night for them. The focus of this night is on their future. We challenge them to continue on the Eagle trail. Any Webelos that chooses not to continue to Boy Scouting is not part of this ceremony. This ceremony is for the boys who are continuing along the Eagle Trail. I like doing it this way for several reasons. One, we are splitting the "reflections of the past" from the "challenges of the future". Second, it gives the Webelos a month to catch their breath and celebrate their accomplishment. We encourage the den leaders to do something fun with their boys, such as a pizza party or night out. Last year, our boys worked on their World Conservation Award during this time. Then, we hit Boy Scouting full steam in April. It worked great.

And, regarding the original post, I agree that it is difficult to take the advancement back. It depends upon the scale and scope of the dishonesty. If the scout truly lied about the completion of requirements for the sole purpose of getting by without doing the work, then I would be talking with my District Advancement Chair for some guidance and support. At the least, I think I would hold up the Star Advancement #2(living by Scout Oath & Law) until I've seen a change of heart. This would most likely be done by showing some remorse and completing the requirements he lied about.

There are some good points made here. I agree that some quality control is needed. The method I use is to have boys turn in something in writing for all of the requirements that it is possible (menu/food requirements, identifying plants & animals, etc.). They turn it in, I review it with them, take it home and check it off in Troopmaster. I return it to them at a future meeting indicating that I've signed off on it. They are responsible for hanging on to the paperwork in case I mess up. This doesn't work with "demonstrate a bowline", or several other of the requirements, but it can help keep things in order.

Ditto all the others. I had this happen a few years ago when I was CM. One boy wasn't going to Boy Scouts. He didn't participate in the Crossover. His trail ended on that side of the bridge.

Acco: 4e. On one campout, serve as your patrol's cook. Supervise your assistant(s) in using a stove or building a cooking fire. Prepare the breakfast, lunch, and dinner planned in requirement 4a. Lead your patrol in saying grace at the meals and supervise cleanup.

I've been through it before too. About 1 out of 2 DEs we've had have been terrible. The good ones have been great, however. Unfortunately, the great ones always get promoted. When we've been without a DE, I've leaned on the Field Directors for support. Of course, they are our former DEs, so it makes it a little easier since we have a relationship. Overall, I've been lucky. When we've needed a DE, a good one has been there. We're fortunate that are new DE is working out well (he's an EKU grad, coincidentally).

You know, there are several times that I've disagreed with Bob. But this time, I can't agree with him more. I was building a list in my head of several things they could do, but he got them all and added a few. I'm going to save this list for our troop. No offense to those who offered the ideas regarding District, commissioner and OA roles, but I think you're missing one important point. These adults want to be involved with this troop. They are probably parents of scouts and truly desire to be around the program. Therefore, Mike, you need to find roles that keep them involved in your troop, but focus their energies in ways that doesn't conflict with the boys doing what they are supposed to do - run the troop. The other thing you need to do is to continue to teach the adults about what their role is. Keep preaching from the "Gospel of Baden-Powell". Point out what the boys are learning. Praise the boys publically for taking the leadership role. We had a boy-run Court of Honor yesterday, and it went reasonably well. (I'll be giving the boys some "coaching" on some of it.) At the end, when I got up for my "Scoutmaster's Minute(s)", I really praised the boys for stepping up and taking the responsibility. And, I publically challenged them to continue their progress and challenged the adults to let them do it.

We expect to add all six Webelos from our associated Pack to our nine first-year scouts. That will bring our 1 year old troop up to 15. I'm concerned about losing 1 of our current scouts, he's very discouraged. He's been in since Tigers and his dad is very involved. That could be a big loss. On the upside, 5 of the parents coming up are registered leaders in the pack. 3 dads are Eagle Scouts.

Hey Bob. I guess I'm glad I'm a SM, because I struggle with this whole "not a retest, but a review" balancing act. I understand what you said about a Tenderfoot vs. a Life Scout. But my point is not that they should retest them, but if a boy has made it to Life Scout, he should know, understand and live by the Scout Law to an even greater extent than a Tenderfoot. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm really trying to learn how this applies. If the BOR asks a scout (pick a rank) to recite the Scout Oath or Law, and the scout doesn't know it, what should they do? Sure, it's not a retest... but if they are reviewing whether he's living by these points (as they should do), and he can't even quote them, what does that say? What should the BOR do? On a related thought, I have had BORs tell me that a boy couldn't remember the slogan, motto or something along those lines. I take that as my issue as Scoutmaster. It tells me that I'm probably not emphasizing those points of the program enough.

Nope. No problem at all. In fact, we're going to have a female program director this year. She's been Camp Director for Web Resident Camp for the past few years. She's also one of the best DEs I've ever worked with. I expect she'll be one of the best Camp Director's as well.

Ron, I think you're correct. Someone once said it was Quality Control for your advancement program. There's some truth to that. Does anyone use set standards for each rank? For example, if a Tenderfoot fumbles through the Scout Law, that's understandable. But if a Life Scout does, shame on him. The Scout Slogan isn't emphasized very much, so some Scouts may forget it. Just curious... the topic has come up at our Troop Committee meeting.

Thanks KS. If I may be so bold, we sound a lot alike (my son gets his good looks from his momma, too). I always try to stay out of his patrol's business. If, for some reason, we have an adult working with the patrols, and I need to be one of them, I make sure to take the other patrol. I think he appreciates the distance, especially since he's the PL.

I agree w/Bob. A few other things. Start with safety. Boys want to jump right into carving, but don't even do that the first week. Talk about how to open, close, handle, pass to someone, sharpen, etc. I start with showing them my thumb. When I was 20, I was Handicraft Director at Scout Camp. In the weeks leading up to camp, I was preparing some demonstration materials and my non-locking blade pocket knife folded on my thumb, spliting it wide open from the tip to below the nail. They see the scar and recognize that these things really can hurt you - even when being careful. When you start carving, you can first use plastic knives. We didn't do that, but I've seen some den leaders do that first. The bar of soap idea really works well.

Great input everyone. This is what I really come to the forums for. Ron - I'm "dad" most of the time. Only when he is trying to get my attention is it "Mr." My son actually asked me to be SM. We started our troop last year with our graduating Webelos. The boys were not impressed with what they saw in other troops(discipline issues, chaos in one troop, etc.). They were used to a little more organization. My son, who is quite a "by the book" sort of kid, said he didn't think any of the troops were acting like Scouts should act. He felt we would do a better job if we started our own. How can a guy pass that request up??? ;-) We haven't had any real problems. I always try to manage perceptions. He does complain about having to report progress to me at the meeting when he knows I saw him do it at home. But he's getting used to it. I haven't done any MB counseling yet. As SM, I'm pretty busy working with the boy leaders, overseeing the program, doing SM conferences, etc. So I really don't have time to add that to my workload. But I probably will eventually.

Our practice is to give the cloth badges to the Scout the night they earn them. For Scout, that is the night that they tell me they have comleted the Youth Protection requirement. For all other ranks (except Eagle), it's the night of the BOR. We give cards & parent's pins at the COH. The biggest complaint I get is from the moms (who typically do the sewing). They get the AOL around February, the Scout rank around March or April, Tenderfoot around May... By this time they are talking about investing in velcro!

We purchased a single burner stove from Cabelas and a 42 Quart Steam Pot with a faucet. We can boil 10 gallons of water in a matter of minutes. The faucet allows you to easily pour the water into your dishpans. Another troop I saw did this with a beer keg, they welded a outdoor faucet to it. Total cost around $125, but it makes cleanup go much faster.