EagleInKY

Hey Me - It could be that you got approval because it appeared to be a pack activity, even though it was really a den. In other words, if the Cubmaster signed the tour permit, it "looked" like a pack event to council. That begs the question, If a pack organizes a campout, but on ly boys from one den comes, is it a den campout? ;-) Now, to address your real issue. I think you need to survey the boys and parents and find out if they really want to camp. My den never had an interest in camping. Nor did the den before or after ours. Therefore, our pack went through a 3-4 year period where they did no family camping. The core leadership of the pack, and their associated dens, did not have an interest in it. Now, the pack'; younger families, in particular this year's Tigers and Wolves, are really interested in camping, so the pack is getting back into it again. Also, I agree that two nights is a lot tougher on the people who aren't sure if they want to camp in the first place. I encourage packs to only do a single overnighter. Or, have the option for some folks to come out Saturday morning and join you for the day or the rest of the campout. Good luck, keep your spirts up.

So, Rob is saying that because one scout abandons the principles taught in scouting - kindness, obedience, reverence, duty to others, etc - and kills a person that he presumes is gay, then Scouting should change their fundamental moral stance and open all boys up to the risks of gay leaders. Your right, Eamonn, I think someone has an agenda.

I've got a similar situation, but not quite as bad. It, too, is a patrol of 5 boys. The PL is excellent, but a little quiet. He will let the boys run over him if he doesn't watch out. The APL is a pretty good kid, but has an attitude problem. He can go from happy to angry in a second. Boy #3 is the former PL. As PL he was bossy. He's lazy and doesn't care a lot about scouts. Dad is ASM & very involved, that's the only thing keeping him around. Boy #4 is a non-factor. He's not "all there" most of the time. When he is there, he's goofy beyond belief. Boy #5 is the kicker. He's sounds like your ADD boy. He is a constant iritation to every boy and every adult. He's borderline ADHD, and has "anger management issues" (according to his parents & counselors). I have regular sessions with the PL & APL and encourage them on how to handle "#5". I met with #5's parents to discuss the issues. They gave us some tips on how to handle him. Such as, you can't tell him "no", you have to explain the rationale behind the decision. And, he doesn't follow other kids, he only listens to adults (if he listens to anyone). I explained to the parents that scouting is a boy-led program, and that he was going to have to adjust. I agreed that I would coach the leaders (boys and adults) to use technique of explaining decisions whenver possible. But, they had to understand, that sometimes "no is 'no'", and that there really isn't time to deal with it all the time. Bottom line, right now I am holding him up on advancement due to him not living by the scout oath and law. He's going to shape up, or eventually get passed by the younger scouts. (I don't think his ego can take that.) The other thing I am doing is every time he acts in a way that I don't deem appropriate, I pull him to the side, and explain that this is why he's being held back. We've only been doing this with him for about a month, so it's too early to see. The one other thing we're thinking about doing is moving him to another patrol. I don't think it will help things with him, but I do think that it will demonstrate that he is the source of most of the problems (i.e. the problems in his patrol will manifest themselves in the one he moves to). Then we have more of a case for removal, if necessary. Sorry for the long post, but I feel your pain.

FB - If they're laid out in a standard page format, OCR (Optical Character Recognition) technology works pretty well. If they've got lots of columns and pictures, then there's not a good solution. You just have to scan them in as images.

I had problems with the site last night too. PM me or update this thread when you do anything. There's a few ways I might be able to help.

I agree w/Matau on this. Our troop is young and small right now, so we don't have a "Leadership Corps", but I expect we will very soon. All of the troops I've worked with used this basic concept, and it seems to work well. (I'm not sure why BSA dropped the Leadership Corps, but I'd like to see it brought back). One troop in the area actually still uses the LC concept, including the patches. I'm not sure if they just bought a ton of them, or if they have them custom made. What we're planning on doing is having an Eagle Patrol. (They don't have to be Eagle Rank to be in it, it's just symbolic). This will in essence be the Leadership Corps. It will be the SPL, ASPLs, and Troop Guide.

I love the idea too. I get most my information (both good and bad) off of the Internet. As for the large files, if it's designed right, you could prevent people from posting too large of a file. So, you started it OT. How do we get this thing going? I'm a web guy, I can help get it going.

In order of receiving them: Pioneering (I always loved tying knots) Basketry (defacto first summer camp MB) Cit in Community Nature Forestry (I remember doing this on a winter campout - Brrrr) Fingerprinting Dentistry (The one time I enjoyed going to the dentist) First Aid Music (My counselor looked and sang like Charlie Rich - FOG, you remember him?) Swimming Camping Cooking Env. Science American Heritage Canoeing Personal Management Cit in Nation Rowing Communnications Safety (back when it was Eagle Required) Emergency Prep Cit in World Leatherwork Home Repairs Hiking Wilderness Survival Personal Fitness (Whew, finally got that last Eagle MB, just before my 17th B-day). Nice question, thanks for asking.

Laura - I feel your pain ;-)... It was your topic that made me start thinking about it more. It seems that there are some people that know (or appear to know), what MBs are being updated and when they are due out. I wish national would publish this for us. All I've found on their site is the # of MBs issued - which is pretty interesting. I think it would be very useful. For example, if a boy came to me and asked me to counsel him in Computers, and I knew it was being updated this summer, I would encourage him to wait and see what the new requirements are. They would probably be more relevant and interesting.

Here's what our troop does. PL - Elected by the patrol. APL - Appointed by the Patrol Leader. SPL - Appointed by the SM. (I know several will disagree with this). The SM & ASMs appoint the SPL from the boys who have served as PL or ASPL. Our opinion is that you need to prove yourself in a patrol leadership position before taking on the SPL role. Therefore, the patrols know that electing a boy to be PL is - in essence - nominating them for future consideration as an SPL. ASPL - appointed by the SPL. Troop Positions - appointed by the SPL.

Depends upon the layout of the campsite. He doesn't camp mixed with the patrols. He is either in the center of the patrols, or between the patrols and the adults. I believe either is appropriate given his role in the troop.

The topic of Merit Badge needing updates has been discussed many times. I was talking to our Family Life MB Counselor (aka my wife), and she was pointing out how outdated the book was. Is there a published plan of Merit Badges that are going to be updated in the coming years?

Proud one - You're right, we certainly spun that one out of control. Well, not as bad as some I've seen. I don't participate in much of the OA stuff, our troop is young and we don't have any boys in yet. I figure I'll be getting back into that in the next year or two. Hope I see you along the trail someday.

Rooster - Beautiful response. I couldn't have penned it better if I tried a thousand times. I'm planning on attending "The Passion" next Friday with my 14 year old daughter and over 100 teenagers from our church. I can't say that I'm "looking forward to it". I actually just hope I can make it through it. I am also hopeful for the outcome that we'll see from those that develop a deeper love for Christ after viewing it.

Turning around a unit is a major challenge, and it won't happen quickly. You have to be patient. Initially, you'll have to drive a lot of it to happen. You'll need an ally. I recommend finding someone that has your same vision and try to get them in as Committee Chairman. The two of you work together to bring change about. A few quick suggestions: 1) Focus on the Aims and Methods. They're proven and they work. They're all important, don't leave any of them out. 2) Become a "scouting prophet". Sell the long-term benefits of scouting to your families. 3) Seek out low-hanging fruit. For a scout troop, I would focus on executing a quality outdoor program. 4) Purge the dead weight. If people fight you, it wears you out. You need allies or at worst, people who are neutral, going forward. The detractors will create problems. They'll usually hold out, but hopefully they'll find another troop to carry on with their method of scouting. It will take the PLC a while to catch on. The problem with boy leadership is that if they've been taught to lead in the wrong way, they don't know how to lead correctly. That's not their fault, or yours. You'll need to direct them more during the first year. Once they start to catch on, let them roll with it! Good luck. Keep us informed.

Mark - LOL! Like THAT would ever happen! (Wheeler on a date, that is).

Proud one - I, too, am in Louisville. I attended Crooked Creek for the first time last year (after a spell of Cub Scouting). It's an excellent camp, beautiful surroundings and well laid out. I don't like the Dan Boone program. (Sorry, I just don't care for the cram everything through First Class in one week concept). It has excellent opportunties for the older scouts (COPE, water skiing, etc.). Some of the counselors, as Paul mentioned, are suspect. You can usually find out at the 10-day out meeting (they already know their problems by them), and can try to steer your scouts away from them. Last year, I was warned about one particular area, but I ignored it. I wish I hadn't. The staff isn't the friendliest I've seen, but they do a good job. The professional staff is courteous and listen to the SMs concerns. Back in the 80s I worked on staff at Camp McKee in Eastern Kentucky. It was, at the time, the best camp in the state. It has aged a lot since them (as have I). I think CCC sets the standard for this area right now.

We have a couple of boys completing all 20 this year. First time in as long as anyone remembers. We're planning on getting the Super Webelos patch for them. I've heard of other packs putting together special awards that include all the pins arranged some way. The cost seems prohibitive to me. I estimated their award to be approximately $50 per boy. That's too much.

Eagle74 - I'll be at CCC the same week. We'll have to meet over a cup of coffee in the Scoutmaster's Lounge.

I'll be 39 1/2 tomorrow, not that I'm counting down these last 6 months before 40. I was born in August of 64, in France. My dad was stationed there. I've got a few hometowns, but I'm originally from Murray, KY.

My reason for not liking the hook had nothing to do with political-correctness. In fact, I like the belt cases that a lot of our guys wear on their belts. The reason(s) for not liking them include: * caring for the knife. As someone metioned, the knives get dirty dangling around like that. * loss - I have seen knives or other objects come off of those little brass clips. * safety - call me weird, but I can see Johnny hooking his open knife on his belt just for a second... maybe you don't have a Johnny, but I've got a couple. ;-)

I tell my scouts that the length has to be enough to cover the requirements. For example, in Mammal Study there's a "write a simple history of a non-game mammal". It goes on to tell what needs to be contained in the report. I've seen scouts turn these in with 1 or 2 paragraphs, while others fill a couple of pages. Regarding typing vs. writing. I give them this simple rule - I must be able to read it. I can read typing with no problem. If I can't read their handwriting, I can't sign it off. They're taking the risk if they decide to write it by hand.

We encourage our Webelos parents to get the tan shirt coinciding with the earning of the Webelos badge. This means they go through the first 6 months of Webelos with the blue shirts, and thus, the old ranks. When they get the Webelos badge, we give them the oval rank, they sew it on the tan shirt, and voila, you have no issue.

We don't have a formal "policy", but common sense prevails: * Only folding knives for everyday uses. No sheath knives. The only fixed blade knives are in the kitchen or the tackle box. * Knives are not for hanging from belts. However, a leather pouch on the belt is fine. * Scouts must have their Totin' Chip before carrying a knife. New scouts, who graduate from Webelos, will typically have their Whittling Chip card. As long as they can produce that, we'll let them continue to carry their knife until they've earned the Totin' Chip. * A scout breaking a safety rule will typically have his knife temporarily confiscated. Depending upon the nature and intent of the abuse, this may be for a few minutes or until he can demonstrate proper use.

Certainly, an axe can be used safely. But we always need to remind the boys how dangerous they are. My very first Boy Scout camporee - I was a Webelos camping on my first overnighter - a scout in the next campout drove an axe through his tennis shoe, straight through the top of his foot. We all learned a lesson, respect the tools that you have to work with. I taught Toten Chip to my first year scouts last summer. One particulary clumsy young man walked into the axe yard. I was worried about his ability more than any other. Then, to my amazement, this small lad began chopping wood like a little Paul Bunyan. He had never lifted an axe before, but he was a natural. He had rythym and a great technique. And he never made a safety mistake. I use him as my trainer now. As for on regular campouts, we discourage the use of the axe unless necessary. It's just a safety thing. When they do use their axes, we have one boy supervise while another is in the axe yard. We use 3/4 axes, so they're not to heavy for the young ones.