EagleInKY

Sorry to hear that. I've purchased a couple of things from them with no problem. I'm sure you can get it at Amazon and other places, I had just remembered seeing it there.

You're correct, proud one. In KY, the license plate is optional. I haven't figured out what it buys you, other than giving more money to the government - which I'm not a big fan of. If you hear of any other reasons, I'd love to hear them.

We have our CO's name on our checks, it says: Troop 123 ABC Church Some businesses will not allow you to claim tax exemption on purchases without the name of the tax exempt organization on the check. Even our scout shop has stopped accepting them. I used to sometimes use my personal checks or credit card and get reimbursed by the troop. They won't do that any more. It has to be a troop check or unit account.

Our troop "number" began in the 1960s, and had the same SM until it folded in the mid 90's. We chartered with a different CO, but same neighborhood, last year. I asked about whether we were considered new or "reborn" and I was told that we were considered new in the eyes of the council. Therefore, we can't do things like wear the 25 year patch that the previous incarnation on the unit had worn. I was told that if it were rechartered within a short timeframe (I think it was 3 years), they would consider it as continuous. Does that answer your question?

I haven't read this book, maybe someone can give us a thumbs-up or down. The book Go For the Eagle is available for $12.98 from www.scoutingbooks.com. http://www.scoutingbooks.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=882905848

NJ - I'm going through this right now. Here's what I've been told. Trailers are registered as owned by the CO. Laws regarding licensing vary by state. In Kentucky, private trailers do not require license and registration. The requirement is based upon the towing vehicle, not where you are driving. Therefore, if I pull the trailer into Indiana, where licenses are required, I don't have to have a license plate. (However, they could pull me over to verify). They should be insured by the CO. Technically, the unit can't enter into a contract for insurance (although I know of a good many that have). Usually, you can just have the CO's insurance company add a rider to their policy which covers the trailer and its contents for theft, fire or other loss. The cost of the rider is broken out. Therefore, if the CO won't pay for it, the troop can reimburse them for it. I also know of a few SMs who have added the rider to their personal insurance, but I wouldn't recommend it. Also, when the trailer is in transit, it is covered by the insurance of the person pulling it. If they wreck, it's their insurance that kicks in. When it stored at someone's home, their insurance would cover it while it is on their property. The main purpose of the insurance is for while it is parked at a campsite, or in the case that the primary insurance was not sufficient to cover the loss. Remember, I'm not a inurance salesman, nor do I play one on TV. I've been asking around and this summarizes what I've been told.

If that's what the Eagle BOR focuses on, then they're not doing their job. If they ask about it, he should say "we came up with this cool patrol name, and this is the patch we designed". It shouldn't have any impact (assuming the appropriateness of the name & logo, of course).

FScouter - Sure, like my church example... A pedophile could discover that we have boys in the Boy Scouts and could show up at our meeting place... Shocker, huh?

It reminds me of what happened at church a few years ago. One of the "more mature ladies" had just gotten a home computer, and got on that internet thing. She went to the church website and saw where we had pictures of some of the kids (no names or contact information, of course). She printed it out and went to the elders, fearing for the life and safety of these kids. I asked her, "so, did you think there's a pedophile out there that had no idea that we actually had kids at this church, but now that they've seen their picture, they're going to show up at the door?". I realize that there are a lot of sick people in the world, but we have to use reason. Pictures, without identification should be okay for any troop. It's just an example of a good idea gone too far.

eagle54 - As a fellow allergy sufferer, I "feel your pain". Now, may I remind you that I'm not a doctor, nor do I play on on TV. I now realize the dangers of ignoring allergies, so I encourage you to get them checked out. I've dealt with allergies my whole life. I've done the allergy shot thing a time or two. It never did much for me. I was pretty much a pill-popper. When I got conjested, I took some drugs. I had noticed - over time - that I didn't have the stamina that I once did. Hiking took the wind out of me. Swimming was difficult. I barely passed the Swimmer's test at Webelos Resident Camp two years ago. After it, I nearly passed out walking back to the campsite. I came home from WRC two years ago totally exhausted. I was concerned about my health, and whether I could go on being a Scout Leader. That evening, while laying in bed, I had what I can only describe as a severe asthma-like attack. My breathing totally shut down. For about a minute, I could not get any air. I literally thought I was going to die right there in front of my wife and kids. I eventually got my breath (I won't go into all the gory details). But I went on to have seven more attacks over the next few weeks. After some ER visits, numerous tests, and a variety of specialists, we finally figured it out. What I didn't realize was that I had another condition agrevating my allergies. It seems that while I inherited allergies from my mother's side of the family, I got this thing called acid reflux from my dad's side. I knew my dad had it, and I knew my daughter had it, but I didn't realize the symptoms in myself. They often appear to be allergy-like (coughing, tightness in chest, etc.). So I always assumed it was allergies. The two problems (allergies & acid reflux) aggrevated each other to the point that my resperatory system essentially locked up. Now I am on acid reflux medication along with weekly allergy shots. I also take daily meds for allergies & asthma. I've curtailed the meds as much as I can, but hope to eventually cut back even more. But, I'm happy to say I haven't had an attack in over 14 months. Why do I write this big long story. Simply put, your description of yourself reminds me of myself just a couple of years ago. I encourage you to go to an allergy specialist and see if they can find the source of your problem. Allergies are no fun for those of us who enjoy the outdoors. They can also be very dangerous. Best of luck to you.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. The clause that Scoutldr posted, like most legal mumbo-jumbo, confuses me. (b) Unit Obligations. In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the local council, if there is one, or if there is no local ocuncil, dispose of the same in accordance with the direction of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. In the case of a chartered organization, any funds or equipment which may have been secured as property of the unit shall be held in trust by the chartering organizaiton or the chartered local council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America. In this paragraph, it talks of two things, units and chartered organizations: Units - it appears that after the unit committee has paid all debts, the money goes to the council, or is disposed of in accordance with the BSA Exec Board. Chartered Organizations - it says that funds & equipment are to be held by the chartering organization pending reorganization of the unit or promotion of the BSA program. Aren't all of our units "chartered organizations"? If so, it seems that the funds to remain with the church, as my DE had suggested. Are there any legal eagles out there that can explain the difference between "unit" and "chartered organizations"? Am I reading this all wrong?

Thanks Proud One. I'm shooting for the LHC one. I had not seen the finalized dates until now. I think doing it when you're not overly busy could be a great advantage. I'm so busy right now, I'm struggling with the concept of adding more to the plate. But I'm going to do it. You should join me!

Jersey - I think you're correct. However, I know some troops have a "policy" that says the money is to be used for such and such, and that it is not payable to the boy if he leaves or drops out. In those cases, it is absorbed back into the unit account. I'm not sure how that plays into this. DaveJ - In our inventory, we identify items that are "donated" as compared to items that are "borrowed". "Borrowed" items are not technically part of the inventory (i.e. they show no value on the ledger), but are easily identifyable as something that someone wants back. If the parents are coming back to claim their "donated" items, then it's too late, in my opinion.

I feel a dead horse being beaten severely here. I'll make one more comment and then I'm done. The CO appointed me Scoutmaster. As Scoutmaster, I represent the unit and the CO. I have their state tax exemption forms and their 501©(3) forms for our use. We are a function of that organization. As such, when I represent myself as "SM of Troop 123 of ABC Church", I am truthfully and accurately representing myself and the organization. When I say that they had no involvement in the process, I am stating that they did not fill out the forms, write the letter, specify our equipment needs or put the stamp on the envelope. What they did do was appoint me as SM, authorize me to use their 501©(3) status, and acknowledge/approve me seeking the grant money. This process is very legal and above board. Remember, a Scout is Trustworthy and Obedient. Everything about this is done publically and ethically. This particular grant is: - ran by a law firm - administered by one of the largest banks in the U.S. - overseen by a board of trustees composed of some our communities top citizens. Further, it openly reports its donations in the local newspaper. Regarding the BSA rules, I'm by no means an expert. I assume that the council is okay with it since it is technically acquired by the CO's status. All I know is that several DEs and two Field Directors know about it and encourage units to solicit these funds whenever possible! Perhaps it's not a big deal to them since they are not qualified to receive this particular grant's money (due to their location). I'm sure Bob will find ways to parse my words and come up with another rebuttal. I'm not taking the bait. All I can say, for the Scouters that are in need, is to look at this as an option. Of course, consult with your DE and your CO before committing to anything.

We "moved" COs 18 months ago. The previous CO just didn't care about Cub Scouting any more. Different leadership in the church over the years, an aging membership, etc. The relationship eroded to the point that it just wasn't a good fit. Meanwhile, across town there was a new, vibrant, youth-oriented church that was interested in starting a pack. We knew it did not make sense to have two units in our small town. So, with the DE, we approached the CO about relinquishing the charter when it came up for renewal, and allow the other church to charter us and pick up from there. This included transfering all of the money and equipment. The CO agreed, and we're all happy about how it turned out. I was concerned about the money and equipment, but my DE said not to worry. She said that the church could keep it, but they would have to hold it until such a time that they had another Cub Scout unit. Since the church had no interest in doing that, there really wasn't an issue of them wanting to keep the money and gear. I don't know if she was correct, but all worked out well in our case.

Fortunately, I'm not in the middle of the school/scout unit issue. But I have heard about it through the grapevine. My understanding is that the PTA is the charter org, not the school. They are even charging the PTA for use of the facility. At least, that's what I've heard. Budgets are lean, and they're finding all kinds of ways to make a nickel.

FOG - Nope. Didn't say I agreed, just telling you what is happening here.

I know that our schools are forced to charge rent to any organization that uses the building, so if a school is the CO for a troop, they have to charge them rent.

ALWAYS? Oh Bob, you are always such a literalist. Oops, there I go again. Well, maybe this time it's true. The fact is you said that your troop received that grant, and it did not. What I said was that we requested the funds as "Troop 123 of ABC Church". The check was written out to "Troop 123". Therefore, I stand by my statement. The troop did request the funds. The church knew we were doing it, but had no involvement in the process. You even admitted that the money was given to the church not to the troop, and they could have used it in anyway they chose. To use your words, "I look forward to you trying to substantiate that claim". Actually, thecheck was made out to the troop, mailed to me (the Scoutmaster) at my home address. It came with stipulations that it had to be used according to the terms of the application (camping gear for our new troop). And, I have to give documentation back to them proving such. You said you can solicit and that is not true. Okay, you got me on a technicality. Technically, we "applied" for the grant. The grant has a due date before which applications must be turned in. The Trustees meet and review each application and give according to how they see fit (in accordance with the rules of the endowment). A representative of the 501©(3) may solicit. If a unit representative presents themselves in that manner without the approval of the actual charitable organization and in uniform as a representative of the scouting program they could face severe legal problems. I never said oreven hinted that I did anything without the knowledge of our CO, or didI do anything in the uniform. It was all done by letter. My company has a great philosophy in regards to how we treat others. We say "trust in the positive intentions of others". That means, when you read or hear something, you don't immediately jump to the worst possible conclusion. You assume that the person has the right motives and intentions in mind. You follow-up with them to verify, and then take corrective action if necessary. You, however, immediately assume that a criminal act has taken place and recommend that I "talk to your council scout executive or a lawyer " How arrogant and presumptuous that is. While I agree with many of your answers on this board, I really hate the way you assume the worst in others.

I am aware of a few church's that require the primary leaders (Committee Chair, Cubmaster, Scoutmaster) to be members. I am not aware of any that make that requirement of all leaders or scouts.

Oh Bob, you're always jumping to conclusions. I guess I should be more explicit. The grants were written up under the name of the CO, which is a 501©(3) organization ("Troop 123 of the ABC Church"). A copy of the church's 501©(3) documentation was included in the requests. As for council approval, our DEs have always encouraged us to use these grants. I would guess that nearly every troop and pack in our area has gotten funding from them at one time or another. Why in the world would they be opposed to units getting funds to help purchase equipment? It's in their best interest as well as ours.

Ron, While you are not supposed to go to businesses to ask for donations (the Council reserves that right for themselves), there are many businesses and organizations that offer grants to charitable organizations. If you can find such a thing in your area, you can solicit that. Last year our troop received two grants of approximately $2,500 each.

You're correct Jersey. You can use the "Twentier" patch or "Super Achiever" or whatever it is called. Your council does not have to officially accept it.

KC John says - I'd start this not by jumping to the CM or the Committee, but rather with the parents concerned. But Wings said "His mom and stepdad don;t seem to care about this. When told they will yell at him but that is it." KC says "Two deep leadership includes a different set of eyes on the young man in question. " Wings already said "The other parents, including myself, do not want their bioys associtaing with him because of his behavior. " KC : "A little time finding out the circumstances of the boy may help him, you, and your Den. " Nonsense. If what Wings says is true, and I'm taking him at his word, he's followed those courses of action and gotten nowhere. It's time to escalate. As for John's YP comment, I concur. If he's hitting (a form of hazing and abuse), then consult your DE.

Mrs. Smith, These have been some great threads and I encourage you to continue to learn from them - as I do. I'm nearing my 20 year veteran status, but still seek to learn and improve the program. Why is there so much disagreement? Simply put, we're human. We've all been taught different things. We've been trained by Scouters with different philosophies or understandings. And, the rules have changed over the years, and not everyone has changed with them. For example, I grew up in a great troop. We always had around 30 boys and had a couple of Eagles every year. We went on a high adventure trip every other year (I did three trips to Philmont as a scout/young adult). However, even that troop, as great as it was, did not follow the program to perfection. Consequently, I and other scouts from it, may not be leading strictly according to the book in our own units. Can a unit be doing a great job and not follow the methods perfectly? Sure they can. Would a unit be even better if it followed all eight methods? It probably would. Your unit may only be following a couple of the methods and blowing off the others. That may be the primary problem you are facing. On the other hand, I've seen units over-emphasizing some of the methods (e.g. the recent thread regarding the SM who sent boys home if they weren't in uniform, or a troop that I'm aware of where they have let boys lead the program right into the ground). As leaders, we should all strive to follow the aims & methods, realizing that perfect adherence is a goal, not a destination. I agree with FOG on this, the rules are there and I follow them to the best of my and my unit's ability. However, I always look for improvements, both to the rules and to how I can follow them.