EagleInKY

Blue cards are used differently on a council-by-council basis. Our council does not require them. We use it to manage the process between the scout, the counselor and the troop. The official record is the advancement report sent to the council/district. That said, the only thing that is used for verification on the Eagle application is the information off of Scout Net. We run an annual audit of our information against what Scout Net says. That way, we can clear up things well in advance.

You'll need to give us more information. can something as simple as youthful "disrespect" be a reason for throwing a kid out of a troop? I don't think you'll get much support from this group for that. If this were the case, all of our packs and troops would likely be much smaller. I have a few boys that I have a constant problem with. One in particular is a special project that I have been working on for many years. I've used the "live by the Scout Oath & Law" requirement for rank advancement as a measuring stick for him to grow by. At every level I expect him to improve his behavior. Eventually, I hope to have a well-mannered, mature Eagle Scout. If not, at least he will have grown some along the way. If you do have "grounds" for removing a boy from the troop, it is imperative that you have the Troop Committee and Charter Organization on board with you.

Our RTs do the joint meeting first, and it's effective. It tends to be more Cub-oriented, but that is the largest percentage of the group. I like brainstorming sessions. Last month, we did brainstorming on different places in the area to hike and camp. I came away with several ideas to share with the PLC. When we can get a good turnout, and a good subject, the discussion can be very beneficial. The problem I see is that most experienced scouters don't come. It's usually people who are new in position, or a person "assigned" to come to represent their troop. Often that person doesn't really know the program, he's just their to take notes.

Glad it worked for you John.

Four of our scouts participated in a color guard this morning at our charter sponsor's worship. It was a patriotic/religious ceremony recognizing our fallen soldiers and our veterans. I was proud that our troop was asked by the church to participate, and I was even more proud of the manner that they carried out their responsibility. A snappy salute to all who participate in ceremonies this weekend!

Okay, here's the easiest way of staying out of trouble, both from a BSA policy, District & CO. Are you ready???? Turn it over to your CO. Let them do with it as they wish (presumably, to sell it and give the proceeds back to you). This way, you don't run afowl of any BSA fund-raising regs, you won't upset the FOS guy, the doner doesn't have any IRS issues (donations must be to a 501-c(3) agency for tax purposes), and you don't run any risk of upseting your charter sponsor if they don't like what you did.

I do keep up with my old scoutmaster. Of course, now I call him "dad". I don't do well in keeping up with my old scouting friends. I run into one every now and then, and it brings back old memories. I ran into one at Pow wow this year. He's a cubmaster. We told stories and had some great time remembering. I hope to do better at this, but always fall short. I ran into some scouts at camp from my old troop. I was a founding member and one of the first Eagles. I asked them if the old fireplace is standing at the picnic shelter and if it still says "Troop 270 Eagle Project - 1981". They said it did. It made me smile.

It's not scouter.com, it's spyware on your pc. Try ad-aware (http://lavasoft.element5.com) or hijackthis. Both are freeware. Between the two, you can get rid of just about anything that doesn't belong.

The only fallacy in the Scout A & B example is that you looked at Scout B over a very short period of time. You could have an all-star football player that seldome makes a troop meeting in the fall, but is around for the rest of the year. You need to evaluate participation over the long haul. I've never seen a scout like "B" that performed that way over a long period of time. (I have seen an "A" before).

Another thing we work on them with is technique. There are hard ways and "easier" ways of doing pullups. Some of the military dads in the troop know the difference. They've coached the kids on how to get a pullup with less effort. That is another way of showing improvement, correct?

I've battled some similar situations. Our thought is that - while on a campout - none of us are "dads". We are all scout leaders. That boy that happens to look like us, talk like us, and have the same last name.... well, he's just one of "our" scouts. It's hard to do, and I certainly don't hit the mark 100% of the time. But that's the goal. Have you ever spoken generally to your parents about this?

foto- Your point highlights the importance of putting a plan together in advance and communicating with the parents. We would put together a plan for what we were going to do each month. In so doing, we also put together a list of achievements/activity pins, that we were not planning on working on in the den setting. We published that at the beginning of the year (beginning of summer would have been even better). That way, the parents at least know, and there is less chance of duplicating work. 2CD - You understood our dilemna correctly. We tried to balance instant recognition (in the den and with beads at the pack meeting) with the desire for a "big production" in the spring. I do not believe the "wait time" was ever more than 6-8 weeks. I'm sure there could have been more concern if the gap was wider. Interesting you mentioned AOL. The one exception I referred to was for AOL. The boy wrapped up his AOL in December. We always put together a nice AOL ceremony at the Blue & Gold. Mom didn't want to wait, because her son was "more mature than the others". I heard the other day that mom has started on her Eagle project for the 13 year old. (was that sarcastic?) BW - Your response to 2CD was one of the nicest you've ever made. You should try it more often. Honestly, I do respect your opinions, it's your approach that rubs me the wrong way.

Had a conversation with two of my more mature scouts last night (my son and the other PL). They were over at the house making some plans for an upcoming campout. We got to talking about Merit Badges and how there are so many opportunities that match their interests. For example, they are both in band and love music. We pulled up the requirements for Music MB. What do you know? They have already done everything required for the MB. I encouraged them to get a counselor and work on completing it. We then looked at a few more. Hopefully, with school getting out, they'll have time to act on their interests. And, in turn, inspire the other boys in the troop to do likewise.

Now, the question that I've seen debated is what if 45 days has passed when the boy is re-evaluated? No big deal. He's practiced for 30 days, and then some. It doesn't say "exactly 30 days".

Bob - Not trying to debate. I agree with instant recognition. I stated that the boys were recognized in the den. I failed to mention that we also did the beads recognition at the pack meeting. It was just the "formal" presentation, that we always put a lot of effort into, that was done at one time. I don't think that violates any part of the program.

We don't require the boy to complete a legal pullup. We'd probably have some 14 year old "Scouts" if we did. But, the wording says to "show improvement in the activities listed", which sounds like it means "each". So, we gather around the chinup bar and encourage the boy to do his very best. We try to see him get half way or somewhere even close. In the end, we're looking for effort. If he's shown demonstrable improvement in the others, and only lacks the chinup, we move on.

I don't like policies that say ">50% or else" or anything along that line, because it does not allow you to account for the specific needs and issues of the individual scout. However, I do believe the leadership of the troop should be expected to participate at a level appropriate for the position. Heck, 50% is nothing. We "expect" our leaders (SPL, PL, Troop Guides, etc.) to be there all the time. We tell them up front that we "expect" then to attend at least 80% of the troop meetings and activities. Now, do we fire, hold back or punish the boy that is elected PL, and then is only there 75% of the time. No. But the other scouts notice that and feel that they are being let down by their leader. If you leave it alone, the policy should take care of itself. If a boy is only less than 50% of the time, would the scouts even consider him for PL or SPL? I would think not. Would your SPL make him Scribe if he's seldom at a troop meeting. Again, I would hope not. On the occasional time that this does happen, the boys will learn the painful truth about the democratic process. What should happen is that these boys who don't attend 50% of the activities are never elected or selected for leadership positions. They should never advance because they aren't getting to serve in a position of responsibility. The desire to advance, if it's there, should draw them back in. Bottom line, I don't like your policy the way it's worded. But I do agree with what it is trying to accomplish. I would just approach it differently.

KS's point regarding each unit's needs varying is true. So, I'll just tell you what we do. If we're migrating boys into existing patrols, we typically ask for preferences from the scouts being migrated first. Then, we turn it over to the PLC. As SM, I may provide my "advice" on a boy, if I see a potential issue. I've found, however, that the Patrol Leaders have typically already made the same observations before I ever have to open my yap. This last time, there were two boys out of six that they intentionally placed. After that, they flipped a coin.

Hey Ha Welcome to the forum. I concur with the others here. I've had the "punishment" issue come up in our troop as well. And I encourage the junior leaders to not look at themselves as "punishers" but "encouragers". A better approach would be to take the boy aside and find out why he isn't going. Maybe he has a big soccer game that day, maybe his sister is in a ballet recital, or maybe he just doesn't like to hike. Whatever the case, until you understand the motives, it's not fair to talk about "punishment". After you've spoken with him, if it's an issue with Scout Spirit, talk to your SM. He's the person that should talk to the boy about his attitude, and why he does or doesn't want to do something. Don't turn a boy off of scouting all because he doesn't want to do one activity.

FOG - I feel your pain.

3) Is it preferable that all the boys earn their Wolf badges at the same time or should I encourage them to proceed at their own pace? We tried to time things such that the boys would all complete about the same time. We told the parents up front that there would be one formal rank advancement presentation, and that, if their son completed early, we would recognize them in the den, but hold off the pack recognition until then. Over five years as Cubmaster, I had one parent grumble. After pitching a fit, I went ahead and presented to their golden child early. We did nothing formal for him, just recognized him and did the badge pinning stuff. When we did the formal recognition later, he didn't even show up to support his fellow den members. I wasn't surprised.

Paul - Thanks, that's the one. I always remembered the "don't forget to slop your dripper" line. I'll drop you a PM about getting the others from you. Big Dog - Yes, spoonerisms is the term. I had forgetten it until you said it. They can be funny, but you have to be careful. I did a search on Rindercella and found some other versions that weren't appropropriate for the campfire.

Bob, Sorry for the delay, I had to shut down due to the storms that blew through last night... You make some valid points. Our approach is probably somewhere between the two, but more like the second. However, I like your idea of incorporating other badge ideas into the program, to get them thinking their options. I'm sure this concept can apply to many subject areas. I'll share the ideas with our PLC and see where it goes.

Bob - I know I'm walking on thin ice on this subject, so choosing the best wording is always difficult. I actually think that our approaches are not that far apart. The "procession" I spoke of - which probably wasn't the best word, but it was what came to mind - simply is a recommended guideline for scouts to follow that guides them to earning their Eagle MBs over a 3 year period. It's not meant to be any more than that. For example, it encourages first year scouts to take Swimming at Summer Camp, and, as I mentioned in another post today, we focus on First Aid in the fall (September or October). As for how we try to approach Merit Badges in the troop meetings, it's not that different from what you described. For example, with April being "Youth Protection Month", we decided to focus meetings on Family Life related subjects. We integrated the Youth Protection video into the process. An approved MB Counselor got the boys started on working on the MB. Past that, its up to the boys to work on their individual projects, and set up time to work/review with the counselor. After that time, I have had no formal involvement, nor has the troop done anything around "assisting" them in completing their work. It's all up to the boys - as it should be.

Bob - I agree with your concerns regarding setting up a day to just "test out" of a MB. I believe instruction is always in order. KS - I agree on all three of your points. The process is all part of the Quality Control we need to make sure the operation works as planned. Our troop even has a recommended "procession" of Eagle MBs, staggered at a rate that makes them more attainable for the Scouts. I struggle with this whole "power" argument. I don't see myself as a power-hunger SM. In fact, I try to delegate as much as I can (to the boys, to the committee, to my SAs, etc.). But, I know as soon as I start to type this comment, I'll be accused of wanting supreme power over everything involving the boys. So, hear goes.... I believe that the SM should use the request for a blue card as a time to assess how things are progressing for the scout. It's an informal Scoutmaster's conference. If the scout is asking for something that he's not ready for, I'm going to counsel him against it. If he respects me, I would think that he would follow my advice. The only time I could see him complaining is if he has a mom or dad pushing him from behind. For example, I've got a scout that still has four or five partials from last year's summer camp, two or three partials from the past 9 months, and is about to go to summer camp to - presumably - get several more partials. If he walked up to me tomorrow and said "I want to start working on Citizenship in the World", I would probably counsel him to finish one of the many partials he has on his plate (Personal Fitness, Family Life, Cit in Community, etc.) before tackling such a demanding merit badge. Yes, I would probably go as far as denying him the card, at least initially. He needs to demonstrate some ability to follow through on his commitments. I also believe, if phrased correctly, it could be used as a time to motivate him to quit procrastinating and finish some of the things he's started.