EagleInKY

Beautiful area you are going to. I've never camped at Manchester, but I hear it's great. I love Ky Lake & LBL. You're real close to my original hometown (Murray).

Remember, the program is for the scouts, not for the moms. She has a right to her opinions, and has a right to keep her son out of it. But, she does not have the right to stop you from offering a great, and recommended, activity for the rest of the boys. From this POV, you handled it fine. You probably committed yourself to not doing it before you knew all the facts. Next time you'll know to just say "I'll research it and get back to you". I've had parents question things we do, such as ... "you let the boys lead?". These are usually parents who cannot fathom their sons making a decision on their own. It's usually from parents who are new, and don't understand the boy-leadership model.

Hops - You have a great basis for an Eagle Project. I'm not an advancement chairman, so I haven't read the rules in a long time. Here are a few thoughts on what I think makes a good project: - Something needed/wanted by the recipient. Bob's correct, don't do it if it isn't something they're interested in. - It should benefit the community in some way. This can be a subset of the community (your school, charter org, etc.). I don't like to see projects that have a very small group of beneficiaries. - It should have some permanency (building or repairing something). I'm not a fan of blood drives and other "service-only" projects. - It should require you to organize, recruit and lead others. I don't like projects where Johnny goes out with his friend Bill and the two of them complete the work. - It should require some budgeting. Whether the funds come from the beneficiary, private donors or your own pocket, you need to put together a budget and manage to it. It sounds like your project meets this criteria. I'd encourage you to do the flag pole and put a plaque at the base of it. Something like "Softball field reneovation - BSA Troop 123 Eagle project 2004." The community and the organization will have a constant reminder of what the Boy Scouts have done for them. Best of luck!

Hey Hops. You have some good ideas. I like Eagle projects that are permanent. My question, are you thinking of doing all of these things, a subset of them, only one of them???

Glad you didn't have to whack 'em. Good luck on your trip!!

Proud Eagle - Is this for CCC? We'll be there in just 2 1/2 weeks. I hope to see you there.

Wings - Sorry to hear of your troubles. I hope things work out for you and your pack. Sometimes, folding and starting over is the only way. But, hopefully, you'll be able to pull it off without such drastic steps. IMHO, the first step for you is to create the vision of what you want this pack to be. This vision, of course, should be in synch with the core values of the BSA. But, they can also expand beyond that. For example, do you see it being a part of your Charter Sponsor's Youth Ministry? Do you see it becoming a focal point of community support in your area? You can build a vision that challenges people to think of the pack as being more than just blue shirts and pinewood derbies. Once you've got your vision set, you need to sell it. I find it first easier to sell it to key individuals in the pack, and then to the larger group as a whole. Selling your vision is important, because, if they don't buy in, you are back to the "fold and restart" idea. If they buy into the vision, then you proceed with building the team to accomplish it. Setting goals and measuring against them comes next. You can turn a pack around. We did, and I am glad we stuck it out. It does take a lot of work. Good luck to you.

I'm not an accountant, nor do I play on on TV. But, you are correct in the .14 per mile for charity contributions.

Reagan and FDR clearly stand out as the 20th century's greatest presidents. FDR and Churchill won WWII, Reagan won the cold war. His ability to communicate puts him alongside of JFK as the greatest communicators to sit in the White House Personally, Reagan reshaped my political views. I was raised a Southern Democrat. My grandfather was an active politician and a journalist. We were conservative in nature, but did not identify with the Republicans. They were the party of Nixon and Goldwater. But, along came Reagan. I wasn't old enough to vote, but I was enamored by his optimism, his love of country and just that hint of a cowboy that allowed his outdoor spirit to shine through. If I had of been of voting age, I probably would have broke the family bonds and voted for him. By 1984, I was totally a Reagan convert and voted for him. In 1986, I changed my registration to a Republican. If you're interested in learning more about his life, and how he became the great man he was. I highly recommend "When Character Was King". I read it last year and it brought back so many memories of him. I think I'll read it again this summer.

Thinking way, way back in the recesses of my mind. Seems like I gave some input into a few things I wanted (had a combined COH with a buddy, who I wanted to invite, who I wanted to do the Eagle Charge), but most of the planning was left up to the troop leadership. I think my mom worked with the food preperation. I think the Eagle recipient ought to be involved as much as he wants to be. But, ultimately, the troop leadership (adults & PLC) owe it to him to put on a great ceremony.

Ditto... dens should meet weekly. When I was in Cubs, we didn't meet the week fo the pack meeting. We also took off during summer break, Christmas break and spring break. I knew of one group of dens that never had a standard time. Due to the schedules of their den leaders, they varied their time from week to week, often only meeting once or twice a month. Boy Scouts became quite a shock to them when they began meeting same time every week, year-round.

Hmmmm, the 3 pan method is recommended in the brand new BSA Fieldbook.

Mike F's remarks are right on target. That is exactly the type of result you want to see. In our young troop, most of our second year scouts are lazy. Trying to get them to fulfill their responsibility is difficult. Now we've got a group of ambitious first year scouts coming in. It will be interesting to see the SPL appointments this fall. I'm hoping it will provide some motivation for the boys trying to reach Star or Life.

Good luck Richmond. Let me know if you need me to hold them down while you whack them. I'm in Lexington regularly.

Absolutely. We did it this past year with our first year scouts. They included notes, books, pictures & snacks. They really enjoyed it. I believe it is appropriate for almost any age.

Woodsmith - You're on the right track. I applaud you for taking the initiative to bring your program in line with that designed by the BSA. I concur that you should focus on the "electing" part of the issue now. Term limits may not be an issue after that.

Richmond - No,we're in difference councils. I'm LHC, you're in Bluegrass. I go for the swatting with the G2SS approach. Not physically, but educationally. You may want to get your DE to support you, if you've got a good relationship with him/her. There's nothing on the Tour Permit that asks for age. I don't know how that even comes into play, unless they asked you when you turned it in. When we went snow tubing, it was 60 degrees outside. I took it into the office that morning. She said "Snow tubing, are you nuts?". Only because it was so warm. As for MBs at Scout Camp, we do have those same types of restrictions. I don't have a problem with that. It helps keep boys from getting into a position of a high probability of failure. It also gives 11 year olds something to look forward as 12 year olds, 12 year olds something to look forward as 13 year olds, etc. (Some of our 2nd year scouts said to me the other day that they couldn't wait for next year, because they wanted to take something.) It also helps manage class size for the camp staff.

There are no mandated guidelines on this. Every troop that I've been associated with had some sort of term limit. They have all been 6 months, 12 months or 2 years. I agree with your thought, that you need the limits sometimes to allow more boys the ability to serve in various positions. I think six months is too short. It takes a boy 3-4 months just to figure out what he is supposed to do.

Boys are supposed to have matches, but like acco, ours seldom have them. The only lighters are the large ones we use for starting stoves and ones belonging to a couple of smokers in the group.

Richmond - There are many "high adventure" activities you can offer the younger scouts. All of the items mentioned are perfectly legitimate activities for your troop to consider. I know we're in similar situations, with relatively new troops. We have not done any true high adventure, yet. But the boys are starting to plan next year and we are going to include some in the plan. The closest thing to high adventure we have done so far was taking them snow tubing back in the winter. It was great fun for them, and it got us out of the camping/hiking rut. They thought it was great. However, if we only did that one activity every year, they would get bored with it too. Get your PLC involved with planning some activities. However, since you're troop is young, you'll have to "prime the pumps". They won't come up with ideas on their own. Give them some ideas. Have them search the web. Get your boys involved to the point that when they come up with a plan, it's THEIR idea. Then, they'll think it was the greatest idea in the world. Incidentally, the "big ideas" our guys are working on for the next year are a trip to Huntsville to work on Space Ex, a snow tubing/skiing trip and whitewater rafting in either WV or the Smokies. I know we're in the same area, so these ideas may work for you too.

ASMs are not part of the troop committee. The function of the two groups (the committee and the scoutmaster corps) are seperate and distinct. They do complement each other, therefore the two groups need to communicate. Having the SM & ASMs attend committee meetings are beneficial for that reason. But, the workings of the committee should be left to the committee members.

fboisseau - One of the "optional" requirements for Quality Unit is: Advancement. Seventy percent or more of our Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts will advance a rank, or we will have a 10 percent increase over a year ago. Approved rank advancements for this recognition include Bobcat, Wolf Cub Scout, Bear Cub Scout, Webelos Scout, and Arrow of Light.

Dancin - Can you be more specific? I'd like to hear more about how they structured it like a Troop Meeting.

Our process is going to look similar to Thumper's. Our first SPL election is coming up in August. We're a new troop, and we have not had an SPL. We've operated as two distinct patrols, with elected PLs. The PLs rotate SPL responsibility at troop meetings and activities. Here's the requirements that the PLC and I have drafted: Age: none Rank: Star or higher (waived initially, since we don't have anyone to Star yet). Experience: Previous service as SPL, ASPL, or PL (since we haven't had SPL or ASPL, it will have to be one of the 3 former/current PLs). Attendance: 90% of activities & meetings (agressive, but we'll see). Training: Past troop-level JLT attendance and commitment to attend next troop JLT. The process goes something like this: Week 1: We review all positions, and boys self-nominate themselves for anything they are interested in. Between Week 1 & week 2: SM/ASMs discuss SPL nominees and determine if any of them should not be allowed to run (due to scout spirit issues, attendance, etc.). If a boy is disqualified, the SM will explain it to him privately, so no one knows this has happened. Week 2: SPL candidates make a speech. Troop conducts election. New SPL picks ASPL. Patrols then elect PL. Between week 2 & week 3: SPL evalutes other boys for Troop positions. Gets input from SM. Week 3: SPL announces Troop positions. It's still a couple of months away, so it may change a little. This is based upon some input from other troops in the area and our past experiences. We're not sure how to handle the 3 (or more) person race. Current thinking is to narrow it to the two highest vote-getters and then have an election between those two.

I've heard of these "paper units" in the past. School clubs, youth groups and youth 'rehabilitation' centers are rumored to have been used in the past. I think it's a combination of the DE needing to get his/her numbers up and the need to do something for special-needs kids. I don't agree with it. From what I've heard, when these things come to light, the people involved have been busted. I think it falls into the "don't ask/don't tell" area.