EagleInKY

With regards to your troop size, that has nothing to do with how good a unit it is. I've seen troops of 100+ boys that were not boy-run. I've also seen some awesome troops of 6-8 boys that are truly run in the scout spirit. When we asked the boys (Since Scouts are suppose to be Boy lead).. (Hopping on my soapbox). Boy-lead does not mean we abdicate all responsibility as adults. The SPL is to run the troop under the guidance of the Scoutmaster. I don't have any publications in front of me to site verbatim, but that is the way it is supposed to work. Our PLC has wanted to do things against the G2SS (lazer tag, winter survival camping before they were ready, etc.). As the SM, I must advice them of these rules, since they are likely not to know or understand them. And, at times, I may have to overrule them. But it hopefully never comes to that. (Stepping down from the soapbox now). I am curious about how others view the PLCs role in dealing with discipline. I've always felt that the PLC members should attempt to discipline "on the spot", and then escalate to the SPL or adults if necessary. But, I've never felt that the PLC should have a specific policy. What are your thoughts out there?

I was trying to come up with a way to say what Rooster said... His approach for confronting the gossip is spot-on. As for your pack organization, it sounds like you all have some work ahead of you. You need to work with your CC and COR to get the pack organized and running the way packs are supposed to run.

Welcome to Kentucky rock star! (We don't get many of you here). With your background, I'm wondering if you are in Frankfort. Possibly part of the new administration? I'd love to chat with you about the opportunities to expose some of my guys to government at a "real" level. We've got several guys working on Citizinship merit badges right now. Perhaps there's a way to get in a field trip.... But,to your question. I think it is okay for scouts to volunteer time for non-partisan GOTV campaigns. I would even sign off on that as service hours. It's possible that it could even be an Eagle Project for someone. I'm not a District Advancement Chairman, so I'm not sure how these types of projects would be received. I must admit, I'd have a hard time approving partisan political activities for service hours. Maybe it's the deep divide we have in our political system today. The way I see it, about 40% of the people are not going to like what you did, whichever side you work on. So, why alienate a big group. Go the non-partisan route if you are going to do something political in scouts. From a legal point of view, I'm not sure if we can do it anyway. Since most units are "owned" by non-profit chartered organizations, we have to live by the non-profit laws. These include not endorsing political candidates. It's probably a gray area, but not one I'd want to wade into.

Sounds like your problems run deeper than what kind of discipline to dole out. This troop scares me. I thought I had discipline problems... Seriously, this troop needs to do some serious reflection. Perhaps SM conferences with each lad. A parents meeting might also be in order.

MTD is correct. It's "two", as in the second step of the command. "one" is the act of raising the hand to salute. Similar to "hut, two, three, four".

Great minds think alike, huh Jersey? I agree that the Tiger cub uniform decision will likely make the transition to khaki happen sooner and with less resistance. I heard a while back that they no longer sell the diamond shape Webelos rank. If that is true, and only the oval patch is sold, it gives credence to your idea of requiring the khaki for Webelos.

This has been discussed before, but you may have trouble finding it. One thread that I recalled was: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=53759 I don't agree with the "earning the privilege" idea. They are members of scouting, and as such, they have the right (and privilege) to wear the uniform. Therefore, an active Webelos Scout actually has the right to wear either of two uniforms, the Cub Scout Blue or the Boy Scout Khaki. We encourage our parents to purchase the khaki during their first year, around the time they earn their Webelos rank. But we leave it up to them. If financially that is too much of a burden, we don't press them. Some want their boy to wear it until he grows out of it or he wears it out. Peer pressure will usually bring the stragglers along. Once a couple of boys get the khaki, they usually all want it.

"Oh the horrors, the horrors" - Dr. Smith Won't they think I am being a little pushy as the current CM hasn't resigned yet and plans to stick it out this year?" They shouldn't. In fact, they should be thrilled that an incoming CM is so excited about the job that they want a headstart. Definitions: CC - Committee Chairman: This person should be running the pack committee. Often, they are a figurehead and the CM really runs it. DE - District Executive: A paid scouter whose job it is to support the distict of which you are a part of. COR - Charter Organization Representative: A truly unique species. Sometimes invisible, sometimes very involved, sometimes totally unidentifiable by anyone involved in the program. The COR serves as the communication between the unit (you) and the Charter organization (your sponsor - church, school, rotary club, etc.). He or she should be involved with what you are doing, so they can adequately represent your needs to your CO. Did I pull the battery pack in time, Will?(This message has been edited by EagleInKY)

What do you think I need to do to get the leadership on the right path with regards to the "correct" MB procedure/process? There's a fine line between reasonable audit procedures and "absolute dominion" over the MB process. I'm a SM, and I believe I should have a certain amount of flexibility in this area. For example, if a young man comes back from camp or a MB day and says "the counselor said we didn't need to do requirements 5 & 6, talking about them was good enough", then I have a problem. Usually, it's too late to go back to the camp or MB day, since it's after the fact. What I normally do is put it back on the scout. I'll ask them if they believe this is an example of living by the Scout Oath & Law. Most scouts will agree that they haven't truly completed the work. We'll assign them a new counselor to finish the requirements that they did not meet. That said, I never cross the line into whether I believe the work was of the quality required for the badge. Nor do I get into interpretations of the requirement. I only feel necessary to intervene if there is a clearcut situation of a requirement being ignored or changed. Now, for your specific question. I believe you need to work with your SMs and Troop Committee to get trained on advancement procedures. Instead of taking the "you're doing it wrong route", take the approach of teaching the scout way, and then figuring out where your procedures don't match. I know this will spark some controversy, in that some do not agree with the approach we use. But, I personally believe it is the best balance between giving total responsibility over to an MBC or having the SM have total authority.

Scoutldr - Good information, but better sent via a PM. These folks may not want their personal phone numbers posted on a bulletin board. I recommend editing them out and sending cody a PM. Cody - Perhaps you are looking at your district website, and not your council's. Most council sites are pretty well kept up to date. However, I have seen several district sites that are behind. That's usually because they are purely volunteer-run.

How about "... Be ready, be effective, and may God bless the Eagle's deeds."

I was in Savannah for a day this summer with my family. Man, there were Girl Scouts all over the place! It looks like the city is very accomodating for the GS units that come there. There are numerous tours. We did the trolley tour, as that was about all we had time to do. Word of warning, the GS museum/house is closed on Wednesdays. Make sure you take that into consideration for your schedule.

Amen Brother Bob.

IMHO, you should be able to use camping experiences since joining scouting. Most MBCs will do the same. If that were not the case, we should give every scout a blue card and a Camping MBC when they join scouts. It would just take them a few years to get the work done! The unit leader can't overrule the MBC. But, if you have an MBC that is refusing to consider their previous camping experience, there is nothing (that I know of) to prevent you from redirecting the boy to a new MBC - one that would recognize those experiences.

Call your council office and ask to speak to your DE. Scout offices are small businesses in and of themselves. Many have problems keeping up all forms of communications - even websites. Your council may operate on a shoestring budget, you never know.

foto - I've been watching this thread and do not have a clear answer for you. I see both sides of the issue. Those that say you "have to" do this or that, don't have the full picture of your situation. In the end, you have to make the call. Or, should it really be the committee making the call? Nevertheless, it's a local unit decision. I understand your concerns. I had a scout quit last year, the only one to quit in a long time. He's a good kid. He just didn't like the outdoor stuff. Mom and dad told him he couldn't quit until he made First Class. He stuck it out, coming to meetings for a couple of more months. He made FC and bolted. Unfortunately, during those last couple of months, his attitude got real negative. He didn't want to be around. In front of the adults he was fine, but in patrol situations he was causing problems. The lesson from this is that a boy who doesn't want to be in scouting, can be a drain on the existing scouts. Yes, you may be able to turn him around. But, you are just as likely to turn others off. Therefore, if I were in this situation, I'd probably start with a conversation with the boy and the dad. I'd tell them that - if he goes - he is going as a Cub Scout. He must wear the uniform, t-shirt, whatever you require. He must act like a Cub Scout. He'll participate with his den.... My guess is, if he hates being a Cub Scout, he won't want to come on the trip. One other thought. Is there any chance of transfering the deposit to another scout. Maybe you have a new member you've recruited?

Welcome to the forums Kristi. I wish you luck in your scouting adventure! A couple of quick things. First, the position is Cubmaster, not Packmaster. Often a mistake of newbies, so that's okay. Second, get trained. Start with the Quick start video, followed by New Leader Essentials and Cubmaster training (aka Leader specific training). Also, don't forget to get your Youth Protection Training (which is offered online if a traditional-style course is not available). Third, don't take all the responsibility yourself. You'll need helpful leaders to make the pack a success. So look for those around you that can help. This includes financial support as well. While it is admirable to help keep the pack afloat out of personal funds (I've done it myself), don't feel obligated to do so. Finally, the money situation. This is a hard one. Truth be told, scouting does cost money. There are lots of ways of reducing the burden (uniforms from Goodwill stores, buying off of Ebay, camperships from council, etc.). But, in the end, scouting does cost money. Do these parents pay for soccer, baseball, football and band? Likely, they do. They have to see scouting as a priority, or they are not likely to stick with it. Good luck!

I'm glad to hear that some lodges continue the great traditions of the past, while respecting the rules of today. I was very disappointed with the call-out ceremony at this year's camp. I had told my son and some other scouts about this neat ceremony. (When I was a scout I had been Allowat and Kitchkenet during several tap-outs.) I was disappointed with the lack of substance or pageantry in the ceremony, as was the scouts. It's no wonder that the OA is struggling in this area.

We're a troop. Our committee is active and well-functioning. There are about 15 families in the troop and nearly every one has a representative on the committee. We ask that new families provide one adult to serve on the committee for one year. However, we have yet to have one ask to step down after that first year. Most of the families who do not have a committee member have a parent serving as an ASM. Our committee meets once a month, for about an hour or so. We have good participation, except for the summer months. The SM (me) and the ASMs are invited to join, and usually do. While not members of the committee, it allows us to cover more details and improves communications. Most committee members have a specific role (treasurer, secretary, activities, advancement, fund-raising, etc.). Some do their job well, others do no. For example, I handle a great deal of the advancement responsibilities, since they are somewhat undependable. Only a few of the members are trained. I'm really trying to get them to do that. I've even purchased the troop committee training kit for ourselves since our district didn't own one. I had a heart-to-heart with them back a few months ago where I pleaded with them to do their job, and allow me to do mine. It helped, and I hope the spirit continues. They have difficulty grasping what's their responsibility and what is mine. I think the Troop committee challenge would help with that.

Read Bob's post in the link he provided. "Motiviating" scouts to wear the uniform is a much better approach than "Requiring". There is some sound advice in that. For the record, our troop "requires" the uniform. But I guess, in reading Bob's post, it's more like "motivation". I've never denied a scout the right to participate because he didn't wear a uniform. (One exception, a scout showed up for a BOR not in uniform and I told him to come back for it next week in uniform. I know some disagree with that, but let's not get off subject). Here's how we approach it: 1) Explain it to the parents. Uniforms are a part of scouting. It is one of the eight methods of running the program. Would Scouting be Scouting without the Outdoor program? without the patrol system? without association with adults? No. In this same way, the uniform is an integral part of the program. 2) We don't let money be a factor. If you can't afford a uniform, we'll help you find one at a reasonable cost. 3) We give them time to get into it. We don't say "be in perfect uniform at your first meeting". For new scouts, who typically cross over in the early Spring, we encourage them to get shorts first, and save the cost of pants until the fall. 4) We do a big uniform inspection/troop photo night in February. Prizes are given to the best uniformed scout. 5) We do color guards for community events and our charter sponsor. Uniform is required to participate in this optional event. 6) I emphasize uniforming to our PLC and at our annual JLT. 7) I always wear the uniform and I ask all ASMs to set an example and wear the full uniform. Also, I've noticed that boys who don't wear the uniform properly usually don't get elected/selected for positions of responsibility. I'll give them that feedback when needed. Finally, encourage your PLC to lead by example and not get so concerned with punishing scouts. I've had that talk recently with our PLC. They're job should be to run a good program. Let the adults deal with policies such as this.

I like the idea of getting him together with his parents. Then, use the 3 step process for conflict resolution that is taught in JLT. 1. Empathy ("I know that it must be tough being green with all these blue people around. You probably feel singled out. Let me assure you..") 2. Idea Generation ("What are some ways we can come up with to make you feel more comfortable in this situation") 3. Solution/Selection ("Here's what we'll do...." and follow through with it). If you follow these steps, and it's still a problem, then it's HIS problem, not yours.

donedds, I know of several troops in the Louisville/So Indiana area (Kentuckiana for those from around here) that camp in some of the caves in the area. These are programs put on by the owners of the caves. I know that some of the caves have stopped offering this due to the impact to the caves (mostly due to fires and human waste). I've never done it, but everyone I've known that did it said it was fun.

Congrats! I look forward to being a proud "Eagle Dad" someday as well.

On my laptop, I had to go in and delete the www.scouter.txt cookie. Now I'm good there too! Thanks for the clues, OGE.

I've been wanting to reply to this for days, but haven't been able to post. How the project is funded is not the issue of the Eagle project. The idea is for the scout to demonstrate leadership and provide service to the community. Can this be done when it is paid for by dad? Yes. Can it be done when it is paid by the recipient of the service? Yes. Can it be done with money raised as part of the effort? Certainly. Can it be done with money earned by the scout and set aside in his personal scout account? Why not? It really just boils down to troop policy on how individual accounts are used. I do not believe the district or the Eagle Board of Review has any say-so in the matter. My Eagle project (over 20 years ago) was completely funded by the recipient (our CO). I did have to provide a proposal along with a budget. I had to set up an account at a local business that provided the goods. I had to turn in invoices to account for the expenses. All of this was great experience for me. The fact that I did not have to worry about fund raising did not take anything away from the project. Denying a project because of how it is funded is adding to the rules - plain and simple.