EagleInKY

Hey Neighbor. I'm across the river, also in LHC. I know some of the names in your troop. Were you at this year's Woodbadge? It looks pretty good. I'm not a fan of frame-based design. You've got some nesting going on when you click on the "Home" link. Some may question whether it's a good idea to list your Eagle's full names. I'm sure some of them are under 18. This is generally not recommended. Make sure you have releases signed by parents to use photos, for when you get the photo album going.

Welcome to the forum. You've got some fun times ahead! I spent some time in Cub Scout roles before starting a Scout Troop last year when my son's den crossed over. Hopefully you'll learn from my (and others) mistakes and be even more successful. Good luck!

Adrianvs - Good summary of the BS Handbook. I took a quick glance through the SM Handbook, and could not find anything more specific there. Additinally, I taught SM/ASM Specific training back in the summer, and I do not remember anything specific in that sylabus either. I'll disagree with Bob on this one, I have never seen a clear definition of what is "active". Bob, instead of pointing people at loads of documenation, why don't you give us the book, chapter and verse of this so-called definition. Or, do you not have it with you (again). I'll stand by my first post. Active is not about percentages. A Scoutmaster should be able to easily distinguish between active and not active. Go with your gut.

A couple of clarifications - thanks to Eamonn. The requirement about making him help with the first year scouts is probably out of line. Second, make sure to complement him when he does well, just as you need to pull him in line when he does not.

Welcome to our virtual campfire. We look forward to sharing with you. Although, I don't know if we can handle two Bob White's in the same forum.

Welcome to the forum. I wish you the best of luck in this challenging endevor. Several years ago I was asked to take over an ailing pack. We were able to turn it around, and it is now one of the most successful packs in our district and council. Last year, the council Pow Wow chair asked me to give a presentation on "Turning a pack around". Here is the gist of that presentation. We focused on 4 areas: 1) Vision. We sold the vision of Cub Scouting to the boys and the parents. We established a pack logo and slogan that tied to that vision. I didn't really understand the Aims at that time, but that is - in essence - what we were selling. 2) Leadership - We established a Pack committee, and enlisted the help of some Assistant Cubmasters. I'm a big believer in delegation, but I still do it while keeping the finger on the pulse of what is happening. The committee and ACM structures allow you to do that. I was also fortunate to have a huge influx of talented leaders that year. I don't know if I could have done it without them. 3)Program - Deliver the program according to the methods of cub scouting. I decided to focus on some low hanging fruit. More than likely your pack meetings were like ours - long, boring, unfocused and CM-oriented. I turned them around. They were fun, short (1 hr max), kid-focused and did I say FUN. There are tons of ideas. Have fun, be silly, and let the boys be boys. Also, we picked two key events to really focus on. We decided to deliver a quality pinewood derby and a quality B&G Banquet. These are two signature events in Cub Scouting. We put our best effort to make them great events. We scrapped most other events, thinking we'd rather do a few great events than several mediocre ones. It was a good decision. 4) Finances. The pack was broke. We put out a big effort to improve popcorn sales. We more than doubled the previous year's sales #. And, over the next few years we grew to be the #1 unit in our council (although we are far from being the largest unit). By getting on solid financial footing, we could deliver a much more quality program for the boys. Again, I wish you the best of luck!

ps56k, Don't worry about Bob. He's grumpy sometimes. There have been lots of discussion about what is "active". I believe it's like that Supreme Court decision many years ago. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I know it when I see it. As a SM, you should be able to figure out if a boy is active or not. If he's missed that past 3 months of meetings and activities due to football, then he's not active. But welcome him back after the season so he can get his participation requirement. BORs are comprised of Committee Members. The SM and the ASMs are not members of the Troop Committee. Since most troop committees are made up of parents, then the BORs are usually comprised of parents. Remember, the parent of the child cannot serve on the BOR. BORs for Eagle are handled by the District.

CA - I believe what you are focusing in on is the Scout Spirit requirement, not the leadership requirement. If that is the case, you are certainly within your right (assuming you are the SM) to do that. I had a young man earlier this year that I did that very thing with. I held him back from 2nd and 1st Class due to unscoutlike behavior. I'm happy to say that he has made great improvement, although far from a "Normal Rockwell Scout"... I did approve his Scout Spirit for 2nd class in April, and his 1st Class in June. This past August, he was elected PL of his patrol. He's come a long way. Here's my tips for you: 1) Meet with the parent(s). Tell them specifically what you are doing. I encourage you to take a companion along, such as the CC or an ASM. Ask them for help and support. Tell them that you want their child to be a success, but you need their help. Ask if there is any advice they can give. 2) Give the scout specific examples and the expectations you have for him. Explain to him that, just as in life, the bar raises at each level. The level of scout spirit exhibited for 2nd class is not the same as 1st class. I expect much better behavior from a Life scout than I do a Tenderfoot. 3) Meet regularly with the scout. Have Scoutmaster conferences whenever possible - once or twice a month. Give him specific examples of his behavior. When you see him exhibiting this behavior, quietly walk over to him, and whisper "This is an example of what we've been talking about". It's amazing how many boys don't connect the dots between actions they do and the feedback you give them. Good luck. You will make a big difference in the life of this young man.

Congrats GKM. Pass along our good thoughts to your son. Let us know when he goes for his Eagle board.

Don't know if you're violating any copyright laws, but it's very possible. You can use Troopmaster or Packmaster to print labels for cards. That speeds the process up a lot. You still have to buy the cards, though.

I think it's a great idea whenever you can make it work out. Certainly, in situations such as winter camping, it makes even more sense to put three in a tent. However there are several situations where it simply won't work. That's why it can't be policy. I'll restate them for the record: 1) Summer camp - council provides two-man walled tents. Putting a 3rd boy in is impossible. 2) Backpacking - 3-man tents are impractical. In another thread, Bob and others emphasized the need for maintaining patrol unity and make sure patrols camp together. I agree with that. But we have had situations where each patrol had an odd number. In some cases, we've allowed the two individuals to share a tent in order to solve the odd-number issue.

I agree with you guys. I like to see us travel in uniform whenever possible. We usually travel to an activity in uniform. I find it's harder getting them to travel home in it.

I've got real mixed emotions about this whole concept of political correctness vs. hazing. I remember as a scout I once left my buddy tag on the board at the water front. I was so excited about passing the 1/4 mile swim for lifesaving, I totally forgot about it. Luckily, they knew me and knew I had left safely. At lunch, they announced that I was missing and asked if anyone had seen me. I had to go in front of the dining hall and wear a PFD during the announcements. Embarassing? Yes. Did I ever forget my buddy tag again? Heck no. My old troop used to have neat initiation ritual. It was kind of like the "trust fall" concept, only the scout was blindfolded and didn't know what he was falling into. They had to stop doing it because someone complained that it was hazing. I've had boys tease others about snipe hunting and other gags. I'll let them play so far, but I never let them follow through with it. I would never want any of the bad experiences mentioned here or other places to be traced back to a troop I led. It's funny, I try to get scouts to go spider sniffing with me, and they think it's a gag. They all think it's like snipe hunting. I'll say "no, this is real", and they just say "Sure, it is".... Bottom line, I try to let the guys have a little fun, but never let them go too far. The hard part is that everyone's definition of "too far" is different.

It is highly recommended that any volunteer/non-profit organization rotate the treasurer duties. I have read that it is recommended that a treasurer not stay in position for more than two years. This rotation is one of the best audit controls you can find. You may recommend that the CC approach it from that point of view.

Some councils have invoked their own rules, which I believe is within their rights. I believe that is what you are thinking of.

Back to Mich's original question. I belive 7 or 8 is the ideal number. 6 works, but it gets harder to get things done on campouts, especially if one or two are missing. More than 8, and a young PL has difficulty leading the group. Our troop started last year with 9 boys. We divided into two patrols of 4 and 5 each. It worked fairly well, all things considered. We had to do some things as a combined troop, due to the numbers. For example, our district's Klondike derby was designed for 8 boys on a sled. Therefore, we combined and competed as a troop.

I haven't seen that particular response. Last year, the boys caught on pretty quick to what was happening. I'll never forget listening from the hallway when one boy shouted "Hey, I got cookies!!!". This year we did it a little different. We sent them into the room for lunch and it all in a box and a cooler. They had to sort through it, figure out what was what, and set up the lunch. It was equally (if not more so) effective.

I agree Mark. I don't think it's critical for Tigers to be meeting year-around. But, by the time they're Webelos, the leaders should be trying to do some things in the summer so they are used to the continuity. For example, our Webelos this past summer had the following options: June - Go on a day-hike with the troop - Go to Cub Day Camp (not many want to, but a few did) July - Webelos Resident Camp - Pack pool party August - Pack activity - Den campout While they all didn't participate in every event, it gives them some continuity through the summer. Next Summer should be an easier adjustment for them. BTW, I like the fact that your troop meets virtually every week of the year. I want to get our troop to that point. I have a certain amount of resistance from some parents. As we grow, I don't believe it will be as big of an issue.

Dan, Are you questioning my honesty? It got down to 38 degrees weekend before last. It was awfully hard getting out of the tent Sunday morning. Especially for the two "unprepared" boys who only brought shorts and short sleeve shirts. They'll be more prepared next time.(This message has been edited by EagleInKY)

Skyhook. That is measured in "posting years". You're only at 13, so you're just barely a teenager.

You call 40's winter camping??? We camped in that just two weeks ago. Actually, you still should take some precautions at that temperature. You're not in any real danger, but you can certainly have an uncomfortable night's sleep if you are not prepared.

Okay, I'm pretty strict about YP rules, and interpret them very conservatively (except for that whole buddy system in the tent thing). At a YPT last year, someone asked specifically, "Is two-deep leadership required at meetings". The YP instructor said "no". She went on to say that it was encouraged, and it was the right thing to do, but that it was not required. The officlal language from the YP training is: "Two registered adult leaders or one registered adult leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be at least 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities." bolded for emphasis. I don't think the BSA or anyone else would encourage one leader at a meeting. I think it's worded this way so, if a den leader's assistant bails at the last minute, the meeting doesn't have to be cancelled. Therefore, I would still pursue getting an ADL to help, so that you have two-deep leadership at most activities. Again, for the record, I do not recommend having a single leader at any event (meeting or otherwise). I'm just restating what was said at a YPT and what is contained verbatim in the web-based training.

Robert, Welcome to the forums. I hope you find the information and encouragement you need. I've read your post a copule of times. I'm struggling to understand all of it, perhaps it's some of the acronyms getting in the way (eg. PCM = Pack Cubmaster or Pack Committee Meeting?). FYI, we typically use the official abbreviations (CM=Cubmaster, CC=Committee Chairman, etc.). Things like "Committee meeting" should be spelled out. It sounds like you want to do the right thing. It seems you've been trained and are trying to put together a quality program. I'm struggling with what exactly the pack leadership is doing to get in the way. I didn't understand the "they're just guidelines" issue. And, what exactly is this ADL doing? By the way, the Code of Conduct activity is a great activity for the first den meeting of the year. We did it as Tigers, Wolves and Bears, just to remind them how they were to act in meetings. I've struggled with "jealous leader" thing in the past. And, I'm sure I'll run up against it again. So, I'll be happy to share any insights once I understand the issues better.

nld, you beat me to it....

I agree with the Old Grey one, in that it is amazing that Cub Scouts want to do this. However, I feel obligated to share a word of caution. Winter camping is not recommended for anyone younger than Boy Scouts. Check out the age-appropriate guidelines: http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf Now, it's been said, these are guidelines, and not policy. However, if something bad were to happen, you would possibly be on shaky legal ground in case of a lawsuit. If you decide to go ahead with it, send me a PM, I'll forward some winter camping tips we share with our boy scouts.