EagleInKY

Around here, packs are typically aligned with schools. In some cases, there are more than one pack per school. In other cases, it's more than one school per pack. Troops tend to draw from a larger region. While there is close to a 1-to-1 ratio of packs to troops, you do see some boys crossing over into different units based upon interests, friends or location. We're located fairly near a district border. I do know that some of the packs and troops in our area draw from neighboring districts. I've also known of some boys from our area that have gone to units in neighboring districts. The reason usually is that the unit is either (a) at the boy's church, (b) at the boy's school or © where his older brother belongs/belonged. We have an interesting anomoly coming up next year. Our school district is going to get "mangled" for two years while some new schools are being built. About 1/2 of the boys that would normally go to our elementary school are going to end up a few miles down the road. Our plan is to go to that elementary school during that 2 year period and recruit the boys that would normally be in our school. We're not going there to recruit anyone but them. Otherwise, in two years, they'll be back at our school, but in a pack down the road.

I agree with foto and Bob. This is about building relationships more than learning how a fire engine works.

Welcome to our campfire. Congrats on completing your ordeal.

You can't have "two charter organizations". However, I've known of a few occasions where a unit outgrew the physical facilities of a place and arranged to meet at another. The charter agreement states that the charter sponsor will provide facilities. It doesn't necessarily mean its own facilities. If all parties can agree, then I don't think it's an issue. Just don't call the place your meeting a "2nd charter organization". It just happens to be your meeting place.

This is so similar to packcommitteechair's issue regarding the Kindergarten Tiger Cub, that it is very troubling. Why do so many people want to say "ignore the rules, I want what is in MY best interest."? I guess it's just the world we live in today. The big difference in your situation and packcommitteechair's is that - in your case - it does not appear that the proper decision was made at the local level, nor did you get the proper support from council. I agree with the last post. This is not a debate about whether a girl should be able to join Cub Scouts. The issue is whether she can. That answer is clear - NO. But, who knows, I hear that John Edwards is looking for work. He might take this on for them.

This is really troubling. If I'm understanding everything correctly, and you're telling us the unbiased truth, then let me make these observations. What we have here is: - a well-functioning pack with an active committee, Committee chairman and leaders who appear to know and follow BSA rules. - a pack with bench strength in its leaders such that a replacement Cubmaster is found within a short period of time. - a pack with 50 year history! - a Committee Chair who takes their their job seriously and follows the proper escalation method to resolve a problem. - a council that tries to follow policy. And yet, an overzealous parent with no respect for the rules is trying to make the system work for her and is driving off good leaders. All I can say is I wish you the best of luck. I encourage you to stick by your values and your instincts. If you all feel that letting them in is the wrong thing to do, then you should stick to it. One question - how does your CO feel about the issue? I would think they would have final say.

We've been having discussions with our CO and their insurance agent regarding this issue. Let me share what they have told us. (Note, I"m not an insurance salesman, nor do I play on one TV, so I don't know if this is all correct). As you noted, the trailer and its contents are covered by that of the driver when it is being pulled. Therefore, there is no value in purchasing insurance for that purpose. It would only kick in if the driver was uninsured or underinsured, which should never happen. We were told that the driver's insurance would always supercede any policy on the trailer. To insure the trailer and its contents from theft, fire or other loss, we have to find a way to store it on our COs property. I don't know if this was just an issue for this agency, or whether that is standard. Actually, I'm glad, because it's going to allow us to get a good place to store it. If we decided to keep it on private property, it was recommended that the owner of the property get a rider to cover it, and have the troop reimburse them. Hope this helps.

I ask that our parents provide some balance. Sometimes pick the sports, sometimes pick scouts. When possible, pick both. I think it comes down to a few possibilities, of which most have already been mentioned: 1) Sports emphasizes participation to the point of punishing those who miss. 2) Parents are living a fantasy life (reliving what they couldn't do). This is especially big with dads. 3) They honestly think that little Johnny will get a scholarship. 4) Missing something cool like football or soccer for something uncool like scouts, is - well - not cool. How do you fight it: 1) Make sure they understand that it hinders advancement. Johnny wants to make 1st Class just like his friends. But, if he misses half of the campouts, he's going to be behind. 2) Make parents realize that the likelihood of Johnny getting a scholarship based upon becoming an Eagle Scout is far greater than earning one as an athlete. 3) Make sure the activities are as cool as they can be. This is the PLCs job. They should make activities of such a nature that a boy doesn't want to miss.

OGE - Now that's thinking out of the box! No wonder they pay you so well!

Hey OGE - I have been thinking about the same thing. Only I was thining about it as an enhancement to the Quality Unit program. I'm afraid, however, that the QU program is so watered down that it doesn't have the prestige it once had. I like the concept, only I see administration of it being a nightmare. I've know of units to fudge info on the QU app. This would lead to the same, I'm afraid.(This message has been edited by EagleInKY)

Acco - I believe you hit on why Woodbadge is truly the pinnacle of scout training. In order to complete the course, you have to complete your ticket. You don't get credit for just showing up. Great point!

I've googled the topic and found several references to the fact that the council sets the policy regarding the process, not national. Therefore, when acco mentions that the troop is responsible for it, you have to realize that is his council's procedure. It's not that way in my council. However, from what I read, one of the national standards is that the SM may observe the Eagle BOR, if it is not his son. He is only allowed to speak if he is asked to clarify some information. Parents are never allowed in the BOR.

Okay. That's fairly similar to ours. Except our DAC recruits the at-large members. He usually does not get people that the boy would know very well. If the boy comes from a large troop, he may ask for some people that from it to do it. He also tries to get at least one person who has no connection to the boy or troop. So, to your question, you are correct. The SM and SAs cannot sit on the BOR. I would speak to your DAC and make sure he is aware of that. Let him be the one to enforce the rule.

Nothing would happen to the boys who have already earned Eagle. There is no revocation of ranks. I'm surprised your troop runs its own Eagle BORs. I thought most councils had gone to district-level BORs. I think it's much better to go the district route. You're much less likely to run into the local political issues such as yours.

Welcome to the forums. My grandfather was a Michigan man. I still rout for them over State each year. It's the only football game I ever remember him watching, and he never missed it.

ProudEagle - Do a Google search. It's out there in pdf format, so you can just print it off.

Anarchist - Boys that are being recruited are covered by your insurance policy (including Webelos). However, siblings or friends that are not of scout age or that are not being recruited are not covered.

But what is a unit to do if a family just refuses to pay? How would you suggest they enforce payment of dues? Pinewood Derby kits and trophies cost the pack money. It's one thing if a boy's registration is current, but how long are they to wait at recharter time? Arachist stole my answer. Our recharter is in January, Pinewood Derby is in February. If we recharter with you based upon the fact that "you're good for it", then you have to pay before Pinewood Derby. It's just that simple. If someone is having financial difficulty, we'll allow them to pay partial now and then the balance later. I agree that $100+ is a reasonable amount per boy to run a pack. However, I still disagree with a "like it or leave it" attitude. Provide fund raising with scout accounts to make it fair for all. But that doesn't mean freeloaders get a pass.

My wife used to be involved with a UW related position. As it was explained to her, it doesn't matter what the targeted donations say. Whether they total more or less, the UW gives them the same amount. They do it merely as a way to make people "feel better" about their donation. As someone said, this could be a local practice, but that is how it appears to be done here.

Around here, no electioneering is allowed within 300 ft of the entrance to the polling place. It works well and eliminates the gauntlet.

I don't really know how it works. And, I'm not even sure if they still pay them (but I think they do). I know they prefer to keep precincts voting in the same location. They only change when (1) the location doesn't want to host any more, or (2) the precinct has gotten over crowded or (3) the polling location is no longer as convenient (eg. redistricting or a shifted population). I know that you can call the clerk's office and volunteer your location as a host. Although rare, I've even known them to be done in private homes. Sometimes, if a precinct is looking for a host, and no one has volunteered, they'll go out to the churches, schools and businesses and solicit for a host. As far as a bidding process, I'm quite sure that doesn't happen.

"EagleDad in his example did not change the program he was working toward it. I don't think anyone has a problem with that. Others however know the program and work away from because they see a "better" way. I think lots of people have a big problem with that because it ends up chasing scouts away. " Bob, were you talking about my example? Eagledad hasn't posted on this subject in a few days. Just trying to keep track on my "Bob-O-Meter". Just kidding. You and I don't always see eye-to-eye, but I'm always curious as to your opinion on things.

Around here, polling places used to get a small fee. I think it was around $50 or $100. So, the government is writing checks to churches. hmmmm

Thanks Old Grey One. I didn't have the policy manual with me. Dan, as quoted by OGE, the advancment policy clearly forbids what you are talking about. However, there is no such policy regarding patrol structure. Tweaking the method may involve doing something like having an ASM do Scoutmaster Conferences instead of the SM. I know some troops do that because of their size. Some do not have dads do it with their sons. This is an example of tweaking, but still staying within the "program".

nldscout - We're essentially saying the same thing. Scoutreach and Camperships can defray the cost of council- and district- provided activities (and perhaps uniforms). If the unit provides an opportunity for the scout to earn his way, then there is no money-related excuse for not being able to participate. In your example, you are using "pay as you go". Therefore, a family can decide on a case by case whether they can afford it. If a scout wants to go on the big whitewater rafting trip, he has two choices (1) pay for it, (2) earn credit via fundraisers. If he can't do either, then he can't go. But, if a unit says it's $100 to participate for the year, like it or leave it, I don't agree.