EagleInKY

Beaver is absolutely correct. Hopefully you'll have a flexible, understanding counselor as well. Mine appears to be. I attended in October and have completed one of my tickets. I thought of two of them prior to Woodbadge (one idea surfaced due to a problem we encountered in my troop just days before attending). The great part of it is that these are things you need to be doing anyway. The ticket just encourages you to follow through. Four of my five ticket items are things I would have probably done anyway. It's just giving me the motivation to follow-through. I used to be an Antelope...

You should register with this new unit as well. This will be considered a "dual membership", thus no charge for the second registration. This will last until your home troop recharters. If your home troop recharters you in their unit, you can continue this process for next year. If your home troop chooses to not recharter you, you'll need to register and pay through this new unit. Are you confused yet?

You'll receive materials before the course that helps get you focused in on your interests. Then, at Woodbadge, you'll work with a staff member who will be your ticket counselor. You are responsible for setting your own tickets, your counselor will help you refine them.

Having a young troop, we don't have anyone this far yet. However, from what I understand, it works best when you can do as mich says. Give the DAC a call and run your idea past him. If he has any questions or concerns, get in front of them. Then, when the paperwork comes in, you remind him that it's the one you talked to him about a few weeks (months) ago. This usually helps speed things through. I think most in our district are returned within days or weeks.

I have to admit, I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I'm my own harshest critic. I never give a 10 on anything. I believe Scouting, as designed, is about as close to a 10 as anything on this earth. Now, as far as how much I enjoy it, there are days when I don't enjoy it as much (dealing with a disgrunted parent, trying to get the SPL to do his job, doing the paperwork for council, etc.). But overall, I'll give it a 9.5. Hey, I've got to leave some room for improvement, or I wouldn't have anything to look forward to.

Haven't heard of it being an issue, but - then again - I haven't asked. Sorry.

As an adult, I really enjoyed Cubmaster, especially since it was a big challenge to turn a struggling pack around. But I enjoy the Scoutmaster role the best. It puts you so much closer to the boys and you really see the growth in them over time. As a youth - like maddaog, I think I enjoyed being SPL the most, especially at Summer Camp. But I also remember having lots of fun as a Patrol Leader and as I got older, as a JASM. Heck, they were all great! As a temporary position, crew leader for a Philmont crew was the best, by far.

Laurie - We use a system similar to yours. We have a few lead-foots, and most just average drivers. We also have a couple who poke. Most of the time, we're camping within an hour or so. Therefore, we're arriving at the camp probably within 10 minutes of each other. On a longer trip, we may have a place where we synch up, like a rest area or place to eat.

We plan on $3 per meal. That also includes enough for snacks and a cracker barrel or dessert. It doesn't include supplies (cleaning equipment, cooking utensils, etc.), that comes out of the troop budget.

Sorry JohnD, I forgot about your "geographic challenges". And, for the record, I'm from the suburban area of Kentucky, not the hollers. But we do go camping over there every once in a while. Regarding the comment "I have never denied a rank to a scout simply because he has not come on outings, maybe we should." I agree, maybe you should. Your situation is far different from ours, so it may not be appropriate. But, if a PL is refusing to go on outings, I don't think he is adequately leading the patrol.... both in the literal sense and in the "leading by example" sense. Regarding your last question, "What would you do in this case?" I would have a scoutmaster's conference with the young lad. At that time, I would explain to him his responsibilities to lead, and that it is neccesary for him to fulfill his POR requirement. If he doesn't want to do that, you're sure there is someone else in the patrol that would like to be PL and really lead. (And, yes, I have had that conversation with Patrol Leaders.) The summer camp MB issue is something you can't do anything about, given your situation. We attend our local council camp. We know which MBs are traditionally taught well, and which ones are not. I also am of the opinion that some MBs, such as the Citizenships, are not well-suited for the summer camp environment. I'd much rather them take those in the context of their own community and attend local council meetings. But that's another topic. "Do you really turn away the boys who fail to turn up at the prep events? Brave guy." Not really, it's all in how you plan. This may not work for you in your situation, but here goes. Let's say we're going to go on a 20 mile backpacking trip next September. Our PLC plans that event. In order to be physically, mentally and logicstically prepared, they plan some shakedown events. They schedule a 5 mile day-hike with full gear in April. They plan a campout in June where they'll hike 10 miles, again with all of their gear. When the annual plan is published, these two preparatory events are announced and everyone is told that attendance is required for any scout that wants to go on the big trip. Now, if Johnny plans to attend and then gets sick the day before the 5 mile hike, are we going to tell him "no". Of course not. But if Johnny says "I'm not going on those stupid small hikes, I'll see you in September". I'd tell him the only place he'll see us in September is when we come off the trail to greet him. Brave, if you say so. After all, "A Scout is Brave". But I like to think of it as teaching kids responsibility and helping them learn how to live up to those responsibilites.

Here's how we address it. First, let's read the requirement: On one campout, serve as your patrol's cook. Supervise your assistant(s) in using a stove or building a cooking fire. Prepare the breakfast, lunch, and dinner planned in requirement 4a. Lead your patrol in saying grace at the meals and supervise cleanup. We take this as meaning they are to be the "head cook" with assistants. Therefore, on a campout, a boy is designated as "head cook". Others are rotated around to help him (1-3 boys, depending upon the meal). Over a period of a year, everyone gets their chance to be head cook for 3 meals. Also, if a campout has 5 meals, we'll use one boy as headcook for 3 meals and anther one for 2. The second boy will only need to serve as head cook for one more meal on another campout. This seems to work for us and - I believe - meets both the letter and spirit of the requirement.

Can't say I've noticed that trend. If anything, I've seen the opposite. Boys who want to do all the "fun" camping and not do summer camp. We're a young troop, so I haven't ran into any of this personally, but have witnessed it in other troops. Here are some random thoughts that come to mind: - How do these boys get signed off on POR? All of the latter ranks require it. Are they still attending troop meetings? There is no way a boy can blow off the rest of the year and perform his job effectively. Unless, of course, he is the librarian and attending troop meetings regularly. I would think POR opportunities would be limited for these guys. - Do you allow the boys to earn all MBs at Summer Camp? Okay, this is going to rub some the wrong way, but I'm going to say it anyway. We don't let the boys take certain MBs at Summer Camp. There's just some that I do not believe they are qualified to teach effectively. - How "fun" are your other outings? Here's an idea. Schedule one or two awesomely fun activities (white water rafting, backpacking trip, etc.). Make pre-reqs that the boys must attend shake-down activities if they are to attend. For example, to go on the 20 mile backpacking trip, you have to attend the 5 mile and 10 mile shakedowns, which happen to fall on other campouts. - Finally, I always bring this up when it comes to advancement issues. Are the boys living by the Scout Oath & Law in their everyday lives. Are these boys being Loyal, Helpful and Friendly? As an SM, you have the flexibility to determine this. But be careful to communicate this in advance, and explain your expectations to them. I hope these help. Best of luck.

Ages ago, I attended as a Webelos while my parent's attended PTC. I had a great time. My older brother went on a 5-day expedition and earned an Arrowhead patch.

AOL Eagle w/Bronze Palm OA Brotherhood

Stay the course. Often, these kids will "top out" with their abilities in sports (maybe not as much with band) or they'll burn out. Either way, Scouting can be there as a constant for them. It's interesting, way back when, I was in band and scouting. I remember there being conflicts. I missed a few campouts due to marching competitions, or at least missed part of the campout if I could make it back and forth. But I remember it being all planned out. We knew at the beginning of the school year what our marching band schedule was and the troop campout schedule. We made our arrangements accordingly. Present day - my son is in middle school band. Twice this semester his band director has asked them to do something with less than one or two week's notice. One time, he told them they all had to attend a high school band concert on a Sunday afternoon, or they would receive a drop in letter grade. We had a church activity, and my son told him he couldn't attend. A few weeks ago, the band director told my son that he needed to come to a district band tryout that Saturday (this was on Tuesday). And, that the trip was all day. We had a campout and my son told him he couldn't change plans at the last minute. He tried to pressure my son into going, but he told him it was simply too late, and that the troop was depending on him to do some things. I was proud that my son stood firm to his commitments, but I know other boys would have easily caved under the pressure. I have no problems with boys who have to miss due to planned activities that we can work around. A High School band activity scheduled at the last minute took our SPL out for one weekend. It's these unplanned activities that drive me crazy.

Your pack's leaders are not following the program. They may be following "a" program, but it is not Cub Scouting. The CC running a den meeting of multiple dens grouped together? Where in the heck did that come from? Not in any training I've ever seen. If the CC feels inclined to do something to better improve communications or whatever, let them have a joint parent's info session while the den leaders take the boys off to get their den meetings going. This pack is definitely screwed up. And, while you may be very busy with your boy's scouting unit, I encourage you to get involved with this one as well. Otherwise, your younger son may get turned off on scouting and you lose him completely. I know of many leaders (including myself) that serve at multiple levels.

Aw, Truncated Post Syndrome (TPS for short). I've seen it inflict a number of posters. I haven't experienced it myself. I've heard it suggested that if you delete your cookies and temporary files it may fix it. Other than that, I recommend copying your post before submitting.

SA - I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the old "slippery slope" argument. I don't believe that they will stop their assault on the BSA. Next they'll be going after us using their facilities. In particular, they are very much opposed to the use of AP Hill for Jamboree. I would expect an all out assault by the ACLU to block the next Jamboree (after 2005).

SA beat me to it, I had to find the link. This is the first(only) bpscouts unit in the US: http://www.1sttarrantbpscouts.org/index.html

For the past 3 1/2 years I've also served as my church's children's minister. With my kids moving into the teen years, and the time requirements of my job, family and scouts, I stepped down a few months ago. I'd love to get involved with the teen ministry, if I had the time. Nice question Eamonn, thanks.

Zippie gives you some great advice. Bottom line - you need to get involved. It sounds like the den leader doesn't know what to do. Perhaps she hasn't been trained. Step up, get involved, and be a positive help to the den and the pack. Second, Cub Scouting is not Boy Scouting. Don't try to turn it into a boy-led program. It's not. Their are only two aspects of Cubs that hint at boy-leadership. The denner, which takes all direction from the Den Leader, and the Den Chief, which is a Boy Scout. So don't push or even encourage your son to take a "leadership" role. It's just simply not time for that yet. Boys at that age will not respond or accept leadership from peers.

Scoutnut - I couldn't have said it better myself.

Barry and Scoutnut both give some great advice. Three things that I see in their comments: 1. Consistency in leadership from year to year. 2. Training/support for new parents/leaders. (I love Barry's idea of the fishing outing to get everyone oriented). 3. Creative use of making the program work for their unit. We've been fortunate that for the three of the past four years, we've had a parent already involved in the pack who had a younger son coming up into Tigers. In each of these cases we were able to recruit them to be the Tiger Leader. This helps by having someone who has been through the program to lead the others through it. I've found it's much more difficult in the years where everyone in the group is new at it.

WWBPD (love the moniker, by the way) - I believe it boils down to answering the question "what is the reason for the boy not participating in the ordeal?" Is it a lack of Scout Spirit? Maybe or maybe not. Perhaps the ordeal timing always conflicts with a troop activity, and he'd rather serve the troop. Perhaps it conflicts with band, church or family activities. Or, maybe the scout prefers to be active at the troop level and doesn't have a desire to be part of the OA right now. Maybe he's afraid because he's heard horror stories of past ordeals. The point is that there are many reasons why a scout may choose not to participate. If the scout is living by the oath & law, then I believe the SM has to put his name on the list. Let the troop decide whether he deserves another shot at it.

Our district does something pretty cool. They've designed a certificate that is presented at the end of the BOR. It states that the young man is an "Eagle Candidate" and has passed the BOR. It explains that he still needs approval from the council and national level. It's not official in any capacity, but it allows the boy to be recognized, take something home and have a big smile on his face.