EagleInKY

Firekat - Not to speak for Fscouter, but I'll chime in. We've debated this often before. His issue - and mine - are not with those that can't afford it. There are lots of creative ways of making scouting affordable for those who can't do it on their own. Our issue is with the soccer moms and dads that will spend whatever it takes on a new pair of cleats, pads, uniform and equipment for whatever sport or activity (soccer, band, etc.) and then complain about something that can be purchased second-hand, if you like, at a reasonable price.

For YP training, I've just used the legal argument (we all need to understand the rules). Most are good with that, and will do the online training, with much coersion. (I've sent the links to it directly via e-mail, so they have no excuse). For regular training (Troop Committee, SM/ASM, etc.) I've always had problems getting them to go to it. Our oouncil has gone to more of a train-the-trainer approach. I can now do training for anyone in my troop. So, we just set a time, and ask them to be there. We make it fun, and it's oriented to our unit and our particular needs. We've generally had a pretty good turnout. Last year, I did SM/ASM training at Summer Camp. I put the CD in my laptop and we did it in the campsite (without the video). Finally, and this has worked to an extent - I use guilt. I often hear things like "we didn't understand that" or "we didn't realize that was our responsibility", etc. When that happens, we use it as an excuse to get them trained. Also, if your council has a scouting university or pow wow, have the unit pay their tuition. It's well worth the investment!

Welcome. Sounds like quite a scouting family!

Welcome to the virtual campfire. Throw on a virtual log and have a good time.

I agree with the mix of planned time and down-time. Have some optional activities during the down-time for those that want to keep going. This could be some simple field games or a fishing derby.

Poker and card games have become a big thing for our guys as well. Question, what do you allow them to "gamble" with. Our guys usually just play for fun, but sometimes they play for toothpicks or whatever they find. I have always drawn the line at money or anything of real value.

Someone built a wooden bridge many years ago. It has the candle holders on it and we do a candle lighting deal as they cross over. Someone suggested a change to it a few years ago. They saw where someone took the planks from the bridge and made them removable. On the twelve planks were written the twelve points of the Scout Law. One at a time, a scout displays the word and reads some text about it and then lays it in place. After the bridge has been built, the Webelos cross over to meet their SPL & SM.

They're correct, you won't find anything in print regarding this. The closest is that just about every scout camp I've looked at has rules banning them from their camps. It's a unit-level decision. We recently took a trip down to Huntsville. 5 hours on the road. We allowed them to bring their electronics for the trip. For some, it's the only way to survive that long of "confinement". Plus, with so many vehicles having DVD players built in, it's seen as unfair as to the guys if one vehicle has it and another one doesn't allow it.

I would agree that most of us are harder on our own sons. Unfortunately, there are those that are not. I personally get frustrated when I see that. As for the counseling multiple scouts, I guess it would not be a big deal if the only person you were counseling was your son. Since the BSA's 1-on-1 contact rule doesn't apply to parents. Also, my understanding is that the second person doesn't necessarily have to be a scout. Let's say a scout is the only one wanting to do Landscape Architecture. He could get a friend or a sibling to go along with him. As long as he is not alone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I heard this in MB Counselor Orientation.

Welcome to the campfire!

i don't see a problem with it. A lot of our scouts use their service hours in scouting to also fulfill Beta club hours or other things.

Rix - No. There is no set timeframe for it. Most tend to do it during the Bear year because of the requirement. But there is no reason to do that. It's just common.

Also, many people get two-deep leadership and one-on-one contact confused. There should never be one-on-one contact in any situation (except for with your own child). Therefore, even at troop meetings, an adult should never be behind closed doors alone with someone else's son. Sometimes I may have a Scoutmaster's conference off to the side or "around the corner", but I know they are fully in public view and anyone can walk in at any time. Two-deep leadership is always a good idea. It protects you and the boys. I've had a couple of instances during meetings where I was the only adult present. As long as we avoid the one-on-one situation, we're fine. But, I agree, it's always a good idea to go above-and-beyond. Therefore, we always try to have two deep in any situation. As for the married couple, I assume that's just another way of going above-and-beyond. As long as you treat it as a "best practice" instead of a "policy", I have no problem with it.

Haven't heard of the shoebox idea. I've heard of packing it in with a daypack, or having a weight limit. I guess I'm pretty attached to my tent and sleeping bag. I would assume hammocks are the sleeping accomodations of choice? I was amazed at how many leaders at Woodbadge couldn't pack their stuff in a single backpack - for a weekend. Admittedly, I did bring a lantern and a couple of extra items, since the parking lot was only a couple of hundred yards away. But, still, I was amazed at the people that brought boxes and boxes of stuff.

It's my understanding that their position on scouting has more to do with a prohibition on participating in secular activities. They are supposed to be seperate from "things of the world", so they don't participate in any school or social organizations.

One of the observations made recently on this board was that the Whitlin' Chip is not a Bear requirement. A Cub Scout can earn it at any point in time. It's just included as one of the optional requirements for Bear. That's why everyone seems to think it should go there. As for the meeting, when your talking Cubs and knives, you should make an announcement at the beginning about knives going in their pockets or into the hands of their parents. What happens afterwards is the parent's concern (as you are well aware). Welcome to the forum!

Good post Hunt. Last night, we had a boy go before the BOR. This boy has always fought wearing the uniform. He didn't have his neckerchief on, as is not uncommon for him. The BOR gave him a hard time over it (not in a cruel way, mind you). He gave some excuses - I never had one.... (response, didn't the troop provide one to you?), I lost it over six months ago (response, didn't you have it at the last COH?), okay, well I don't know where it is and I don't like to wear it (at least, finally an honest answer). They talked to him about the need to be properly uniformed (part of the team, setting an example, etc.). I hope this reinforces what I've tried to tell the boy and hope he grows up a little in the process. Oh, and yes, he passed the board.

Mollie - I really recommend one of the rotating methods, instead of the elimination method. It's been discussed, and I'm of the strong belief that it is more inclusive, more fair and more fun for the boys. They often don't know who won until the very end. And, it doesn't take any longer. In fact, our Derby sped up when we went to the rotating method. Send me a PM, and I'll send you a spreadsheet that can be used for tracking it.

Mollie - Great question. It's been discussed before. It's a difficult thing to understand - reviewing but not retesting. I believe you probably made the right decision. In the past, we've had scouts go into a total vapor lock during a BOR. Usually, this happens at an early one (Tenderfoot or 2nd Class). Once, a boy couldn't remember the first point of the Scout Law after they reminded him it started "A Scout is...". In extreme cases, such as the this one I mentioned, the BOR asked him to relax, review the basics and come back the next week. He did, and passed fine. In your situation, the boy may have just been nervous as well. These things happen. Or, perhaps even though the MB was signed off recently, maybe most of the work was done over a year ago. Or maybe he really didn't enjoy it that much and doesn't remember much about it. In the end, he probably grew from the discomfort of not knowing an answer for soemthing he should have known. We've all been there - at school, at work, etc. He'll hopefully be better prepared next time.

Let em run! They'll have a ball. I remember a couple of years ago when a Tiger's Dad won - er, correct that - a Tiger won the Pack pinewood derby! It's a parent-son activity. In those early years, the parent does most of the work. By the time their Webelos, the boy is saying "leave me alone, I want to do it myself".

I have often said that I am glad that I don't have to be responsible for BORs. I think they are one of the vaguest of scouting's vague processes. The document says "the board should attempt to determine the Scouts attitude and his acceptance to Scoutings ideals." The question that I believe Semper, I and others have asked is "if a scout refuses to wear a uniform, how does that reflect on his attitude and acceptance of scouting's ideals?". Now, I'm not talking about situations where a scout can't afford a uniform. I've always distinguished that as something seperate. I'm talking about where a scout simply refuses to wear the uniform.

We do. I serve as Chaplain when needed. I hope to have a dedicated chaplain someday. But, until then, we do what we can.

I tried to spin this off, but it wouldn't let me. So here goes.. In another post, Barry (EagleDad) stated: "I found a Scout with at least six months as a Den Chief experienced was more advanced in leadership than a scout without that experience even if he had JLT. I wasnt much of a believer of Den Chiefs until I saw that. After that, I pushed all my scouts to be a Den Chief after a year in the troop. You could say that the Den Chief experience was their first taste of JLT. " I agree with the great value the Den Chief brings to both the den and to the scout himself. It's a position of great responsibility and will teach him a great deal about leadership. And, if handled well, it is the best recruiting tool you can have for Webelos-to-Scout transition. I have, however, witnessed some bad experiences due to immature Den Chiefs. These were boys who had just completed their first year of Boy Scouting. They turned boys off of their troops, and - in some cases - Boy Scouting as a whole. I realize that the issue is truly with the scout and his maturity and behavior, not with the age itself. But, I'm curious. How old are your Den Chiefs? I'm of the somewhat biased opinion that a boy two years into scouting is a better age. He's been through the first year program, he's become a boy leader in the troop, and he is still young enough to remember the fun of Cub Scouting. Any thoughts?

Barry - Point well taken. I have to constantly remind myself that I'm talking from the position of someone with a troop less than two years old. When we first started, it was difficult to get the guys to think of it as something other than "Webelos with a different name". It wasn't until we had our first JLT that we saw the lights go on in the eyes of some of the boys (probably 3 or 4 our 10). I think this is what you meant by "we found that the small act of taking the course started the scout toward thinking of next level of his scouting career." Some of the guys came out of JLT with a new view on patrol and troop leadership. I also agree that the need for JLT would be significantly lessened if we had senior guys showing younger guys how it's done (correctly, of course). By starting a troop from scratch, this is what I missed out on the most. With that said, I still believe JLT is an essential part of developing a young boy in to a leader in any troop. The older boys may show him some of the "hows", but JLT helps him understand the "whys". If done well, JLT takes the veil of mystery off of the leadership role. The boys see how it can be done, and see their place in the troop. It can really stimulate them on to bigger roles and taking on things that they never would have dreamed of before. If I may borrow your phrase... "I love this scouting stuff". p.s. I agree with the Den Chief statement. I just wish I could get the boys to understand it as well.

Elections held and troop leader appointments made in Feb & August. Crossover in March/April. Troop Guide serves for 12 months. JLT in August-September Mini-JLT in Feb-March We're a young troop, so this is our first year with a true NSP program. We plan to rotate PLs each month, from April until next February's election. Depending upon the size of the patrol, some scouts may get to be PL twice. NSP will work closely with their Troop Guide to learn the process. We'll likely incorporate some leadership topics into their early training. All members of the NSP will be encouraged to participate in JLT this Fall, especially those that want to be a "real" PL (i.e. elected for a six month term) come next February.