EagleInKY

We just had a tragic situation with one of our families. They lost their home in a fire about two weeks ago. The dad is a very active ASM and the son is one of our senior leaders. They lost almost everything they own. Everyone in the community rallied around them and took them food, gave them gift cards, took them shopping for clothes, etc. I have no idea how much was given from our troop members, but it was a lot. After a few days, and the shock wore off, I realized that they had lost all their scouting stuff. Uniforms, patches, certificates, etc., not to mention camping gear and such. I sent out an e-mail to the troop families who had already done so much for them, and told them I wanted to replace their uniforms. I went out to Scoutstuff.org and calculated the cost of everything for both of them, and even her mother's pins going back to Cub Scouts. It totaled nearly $300! The cost wasn't that big a surprise to me. And I was confident I'd get enough donated. Well, our wonderful troop did even more. I was blown away with their generosity. To date I have been given over $500. And that's from a small troop of 20 families, with several that don't have the financial means to help. On top of that, our DE purchased the supplies through the district, which saved us a lot on the purchase. With the extra, they'll be able to start replacing their lost gear. My Scoutmaster's minute last week touched on the different points of the scout law that I had seen put in action. It's such a great thing to see people come together to help each other out. This is a family that has given and given all their lives, and now we had a chance to give back to them. It's not just a "scout thing"; it's the "right thing". And I'm proud of our community - the churches, the band, school friends and, yes, scouts, who have joined together to exhibit such love and generosity.

It's a lot of fun to sit on a EBOR, especially if you knew the child or had an impact on him when he was younger. I like the questions suggested. The idea of giving back the troop is a hot button right now.

I'm not sure, but it does seem more pronounced than it used to be. I see two types of issues - and we've spoke about both of them in recent threads. 1) Webelos that are just "older Cub Scouts", that don't have an appreciation of the outdoors. They spend lots of time completing their 20 Activity pins, but don't spend a lot of effort transitioning to Boy Scouts. A lot of these kids still fear camping and the outdoors, and certainly haven't interacted that much with their troop. 2) Webelos that go ahead and do "Boy Scouting" on their own. I've had a few come up and say, what's the big deal about Boy Scouting, we've been camping as a den since these guys were Tigers... Now, Baloo rules notwithstanding, these guys tend to look at scouts and think "what's the big deal?". I haven't seen a perfect model yet, but I think I liked it better when Webelos wasn't stretched out to a two year program. The primary gist of the program "back then" was a staging for Boy Scouts. There was never a question about it. Everything you did in Webelos was to prepare you to step into the green uniform. Now, heck, they go ahead and wear the green uniform. I'm not sure what the answer is, but it certainly is a challenge. ******************* brief hijack We have a group of Webelos that are probably going to another troop. Why? The primary reason, as I've been told, is that we don't do "family camping" in the troop. Now, the interesting part is I don't think any troop's around here do it either. So I'm not sure what they think their getting. My guess is that the SM of the other troop gave them an answer to the question that was more palpable, such as telling them that dads could sleep with their sons. The other thing that this group is doing that I don't like is deciding to go as a group. I've said this before, I don't like that. I understand the desire for boys to be with their friends. But if 4 of 6 boys don't like high adventure, they won't like a high adventure troop. If Monday nights are bad for two of them, going to a troop that meets on Monday isn't going to work well for them.... ***************** hijack ended

I received mine a day or two after first reading about it on this forum. I think it was in December, but don't remember for sure.

I was at PTC in 74 (as a Webelos) and we had them. I was at base camp in 79 and they had them there as well.

It's not out of the question, it depends upon the ability of your boys and whether it is approved by your CO and the council. One concern I see is that you may be taking business away from people who actually do this for a living. If so, it may not be approved. Please read the back of the Money Earning Application to verify whether it is legitimate. Our troop recently did road cleanup as a fundraiser. I know it sounds like a service project, but our state had given a grant to our county to get highways cleaned up. The county offered the funds to non-profit groups. They paid us $100 a mile (each side) to clean up the highway. In three weekends, we cleaned nearly 10 miles and earned close to a $1000.

Frankly, I don't think the cost of the uniform is that bad. Band hits us up for $900 for a 4 month season, and a big chunk of that is covering uniform costs. Other activities charge for activities and uniforms. A complete scout uniform is around $100, and that's with a pretty decent quality switchback pants that makes it a more year-round option. The other thing to remember is that you seldom have to replace everything at once. Generally you'll have to replace an item every two years, which if staggered, isn't that bad.

Welcome to the forum! We're glad to have you at our campfire.

Geez, I hate those things. Not because are necessarily dangerous. Not because they aren't fun (they do look like fun). It's just that I'm always seeing kids rudely running into and around other people (usually adults). I was at the airport last week and a brother & sister were riding theirs around in a big circle. Travelers with their laptops and carryons were having to avoid them. Mom and dad did nothing. At our PWD, a boy kept wheeling from the start of the track down to the finish line every time he raced. He ran into other boys a couple of times. I was waiting for one to go flying into the track. I finally put a stop to that. Outright banning is probably too much, but using the time to educate kids on etiquette and politeness is a great idea.

You are doing nothing wrong. Challenge the DE to get the other packs to raise their own bar. "Rising tide raises all boats". Improve the program district wide and you'll all be doing better. We limit our recruiting to "our" school and our CO. We've had a few cross over the boundaries for whatever reason. I've sometimes been asked if we were recruiting them, which we never were. I've never been told it's a problem. I was told once that if we came into a neighboring school to recruit, they would then show up at "ours". We decided the self-imposed boundaries were fine.

Welcome to the club Hops. It can be an awkward transition. Take your time and enjoy your newfound freedom and responsibility.

Double D, welcome to the forum. I think it's true that most CORs don't exactly take an active interest in their role. On the other hand, most of us would welcome our CORs taking more of an interest. So good luck to you and your unit.

Side question to the topic of Webelos evaluating troops. A council (I don't remember which one) had a Webelos Troop meeting visit evaluation spreadsheet that I thought was pretty good. I lost the printed copy I had and have not been able to track it down over the web. If you know of anything like this, I'd like to hear about it. If you have it, PM me and I would like you to send it to me.

This is a topic near and dear to me. I've been on the good side and bad side of this crossover process. Let me first say I agree with many of the comments, especially those about educating the parents being one of the keys to success. Our history - we started a new troop 4 years ago with seven crossovers and two boys who had previously crossed over and dropped out of other troops. We decided to do the "group thing" and all go together in order to start the troop. The good news is that 7 of these 9 scouts are still active in scouting. The two that are completely out should probably have never been scouts. They just aren't into the outdoor program. One made it through a year, the other suffered all the way to Life! But when girls and other things started vying for time, he dropped out. Only 4 of the remaining 7 are still with us. One went to another troop that had more adult structure (advancement mill). He simply wasn't advancing on his own, and had behavior issues in regards to taking directions from peers. The other two are brothers and left to go to the troop that they really wanted to go to in the first place. My point is that it's best for boys to end up where they fit, not just go with the crowd. When a whole den comes in, I know I'll probably lose some just because we aren't a good fit. I'd rather him pick up and go to another troop than drop out of scouts altogether. Years 2 and 3 of the troop couldn't have gone much better than they did. 6 and 8 scouts respectively. Almost every scout from the dens crossed over. Several leaders came into the troop as well. The boys are a close-knit group. 10 of these guys are still in. One moved away. Most are still active and close. Last year (year 4) was a disaster. An insane, disillusioned former leader did his best to mess things up. He got in with the Webelos 2 leader and told them all kinds of lies about the troop, about me, other adults, etc. Consequently, only 1 of the 10 came to our troop. That boy has since dropped out, because he struggled to get a foothold by himself, and because his parents made him choose between scouts and sports. One went to the troop with his brothers (the ones mentioned above). Interestingly, 7 of the other 8 have dropped out of the troop they went to. Only the son of the guy who caused the trouble is still in. There's much more to this story, but I'll leave it alone. I've vented about this person a few times in here. This year is crazy! As our troop has gotten more and more good press around the community and the district, all the packs are interested in us. We've had 24 Webelos from 4 packs visit. Of these, I expect to get at least 20. This will almost double the size of our troop. Needless to say, I'm worried about the impact this will have on our troop, and whether we'll be able to grow successfully. Most Webelos Leaders are telling me that they plan to cross over as a group. I encourage them to let each boy and family decide. I've matured to the point that I can accept the fact that some won't like how we run the program. Some will want their boys to make Eagle in 2 years. Some will want to run their son's patrol instead of letting the boys do it. But that won't happen in this troop. I tell them now exactly how we operate, and for them to only come if that's what they want. Interestingly, this direct approach seems to appeal to the parents. I don't know what it is, but they like knowing exactly what to expect. A few won't come because they know they won't be camping with their sons. (I tell them "parents" aren't allowed, but "adults" are). A few have indicated they won't come because little brother and sister can't come on campouts like they did with family camping in the pack. That's fine, I'd rather them find something else to do than trying to change the program to something it's not supposed to be. The point is... look at the troops, understand their program as best as you can, and choose based upon what you and your son want to get out of scouting. Don't force-fit him into something he's not and don't mandate that the den go as a group. Oh well, I've gone on too long. It's a subject I'm passionate about. (Now, if I can only figure out how to successfully double the size of our troop overnight.....)

I've been hearing the rumor about the action shirt replacing the uniform for over a year now. I was told we'd hear something in 2006, then 07... latest I heard was 07 or 08. The only difference to the rumor that I heard was that it was replacing the uniform altogether and that they were looking to "Dress up" the action shirt a little more (rank insignia, patrol insignia & position insignia) and possibly an optional necker for dress wear. I'm not sure what would happen with things like MB sashes. I guess I'm evaluating the ideas before really weighing in. I really would like to dump the current shirt, however. But I also think if we lose a lot of the items on the current uniform, we lose both individual recognition and esprit de corps. I guess this is a little like the telephone game. We'll keep hearing different stories until we hear the truth. Who knows, maybe National is circulating these ideas and reading websites like this for feedback. There seems to be some evidence to back up the rumors. Did you notice in the new catalog that there is virtually nothing about the existing uniform parts? Try to find it... most is not there or hard to find. And, the "new" action shirt is prevalent. As for me, I like the action shirt. It's a little pricey but very comfortable. I have had others similar and find it to be of equal/better quality.

Yeah, we use all types. I've got the big multi-function headlamp and the small single LED clip-on. I still use the old fashion flashlight from time to time. Don't know why, just sometimes they find their way into my hand or pockets. Old habits, I guess.

Ours are organized by the District Advancement Chair. He provides 1-2 people and the troop committee provides 1-2 people. He often tries to bring in someone with a background that fits the candidates interest. For example, if he knows the candidate is interested in the military, he might get someone in the military to sit on the BOR.

I've succesfully recruited two boys back into scouting. Both crossed over into other troops before ours was formed. One lasted about 3 months and the other lasted about a year. When we were starting our troop, I happened to run into the one that made it about a year. I asked if they'd be interested in being in on the ground floor of a great new troop. Since they knew me (I was the CM of the pack when they were in), they were interested. That boy is a Life Scout working on his Eagle Project. Sadly, the other boy dropped out last Fall after making Life. He was a year away from Eagle and didn't think he could make it. Frankly, it was the outside distractions and his dislike of rugged outdoor activities that did him in. I have a potential scout who chose another troop over ours last year. He dropped out of that troop after a very short time. I saw him a few weeks ago and he said he was interested. He's supposed to visit an upcoming troop meeting. So, yes it can be done. I think the challenge is to get them integrated in and feeling a part of the group quickly. If they only sit out a year or so, they can easily make up the advancement work.

The 70% requirement is still mind-boggling to us. We've had several conversations, and no one really understands what the measure is supposed to be. The way I read it, 70% of your troop/pack must participate in at least one outdoor activity each month. While we routinely have very high participation, it's an unrealistic number. In January, for instance, we had one outdoor activity, our District Klondike Derby. 9 of 23 boys are on the school wrestling team and they had a mandatory tournament. Voila, we've already missed the 70% mark in the first month! Of course, others had different interpretations. The District Commissioner feels that ANY activity (even troop meetings) should count. I think that is a ridiculously easy measure to hit. A third opinion was that the goal is for the scout to have at least 12 outdoor activities, and that the timing (i.e. within the calendar months) is not important. So, if these 9 boys participated in two activities in February, that would make up for missing the one in January. It's an example of a poorly written requirement in that if it is taken verbatim, it's nearly impossible, so people are trying to come up with realistic alternatives.

Welcome to the forum. We look forward to getting to know you. (Even if you are a fox).

No, the SM cannot bump a boy back in rank. However, the SM should have the ability to apply some measure of discipline on an unruly scout. In our troop we say that first and foremost, our discipline policy is the Scout Oath & Law. Beyond that, however, you do need some guidelines. We have a stated policy on what can constitute kicking a boy out of our troop. I've had to do it once in four years, and that's one time too many. I'm also assuming that this SM wasn't doing this in a joking way. I've been guilty of this a few times. You know, the Star scout that can't tie a bowline. I'll say "Boy, I'm going to bust you back to 2nd Class!!!". That might be frowned upon in this PC world we live in, but the point is that we have expectations for the boys to fulfill at each level.

You are asking about two distinct activities - the annual planning process and the individual activity planning. Our troop does a great job at the former, and not so great job of the latter. We're continually trying to improve how we do activity planning. Annual Planning As for annual planning, I think we have a good approach. We do it twice a year. We hold a planning session in August, as soon as the Council/District calendars are out, and again in December. In August, we plan out the school year (through the next Summer Camp). We make sure to have fairly detailed ideas for every activity up through January or February. The rest of the year (Feb-June) is left very high-level. In December, they plan the next calendar year. Again, we try to have very detailed plans for January through August, with high-level ideas for the balance of the year. I like this two-times a year approach for several reasons. (1) Since our PLC serves 6 month terms, it gives each PLC a chance to impact the annual plan. (2) It gives us a chance to rethink and reprioritize as the needs of the group changes. (3) It's easier for them because they don't have to think about the details of something a year away. One reason our planning is successful is we do a lot of pre-work. We survey the troop on our activities. They are asked to rate the activities on two questions "Did I like it?" and "Do I want to do it again?". On first read, you might think the answers would be the same, but they are not. We tend to look at it in these four ways: - Items low in "liked it?" and low in "do it again?" are generally activities that were poorly planned and executed. Sometimes weather and other factors can plan in this as well. These activities do not usually make it back on the plan any time soon. - Low in "Liked it?" but high in "Do it again?" are activities that didn't go well for some reason, but the guys recognize that there is a chance to do it better. Sometimes bad weather on an otherwise good event can cause this. - High on "liked it?" and low on "Do it again?" are activities that may have been fun, but have a "been there, done that" feel to them. These are great to hang on to for future years. After all, if this set of scouts enjoyed it, why wouldn't a new group in two-three years? - High on both are definite keeper activities, and should be repeated as often as possible. We also ask our patrols to brainstorm ideas during patrol meetings in the month leading up to the planning. The Patrol Leaders bring these ideas to the planning session. The SPL brings in the survey results. These are great starting points for the annual planning. We encourage ASMs to attend the planning session. Their role is to stimulate ideas, encourage the guys, etc. We don't run the meeting and we let the guys do most of the talking. Activity Planning We have a lot of issues on planning individual activities. So I'm not going to give you much advice there. One comment you made was "They spent far too much time talking about menus and far too little talking about activities. " This level of planning shouldn't be going on in the PLC in the first place. Menu planning should be a patrol activity. The PLC should make plans about the overall activity, which may include guidance regarding meals. Such as "We're hitting the trail by 9AM, so breakfast has to be cleaned up by then", or "Remember, we're eating lunch on the river, so plan accordingly". I like the Troop Program Features books as ideas-starters. I struggle getting our PLC to use them. They get hung up in the fact that they don't like the particular game suggested when they should be looking at it for ideas on how they can make their own plan. It's hard for our adults to let the boys plan the activities. That's because it's harder to do it that way. For example, we have an activity this weekend. We have about 6 hours to kill along the way, and I asked the PLC to choose something to do en route. I was hoping for something like a hike, since we are going through some areas with great trails. The boys decided to go more of a sightseeing route. I've had adults e-mailing me suggesting alternative plans ever since this was announced. I just remind them that it's what the boys wanted to do. If an adult planned it, I'm sure our agenda would be different, and maybe even better. But that's not the point, is it? The boys will learn, good or bad, from the experience in deciding what to do. I've written a bunch. This is a topic that is very near and dear to me. I hope it helps.

I don't know how you can do a trek at Philmont and not end with a trip across the Tooth of Time and then down the mountain to basecamp. It's an awesome experience. I'm sure others would disagree, but I can't imagine a more fitting way to end your trek. I've done Baldy as well. It's a tough hike, but a spectacular view. Don't take younger, inexperienced crews up there. You'll never get to do everything you want to do. So, prioritize what you want to do, determine how tough a trek you want, and choose accordingly. Best of luck!

The Denner is a position assigned to a boy in the den. It's usually rotated every month. The Denner has whatever responsibility you wish to give him. He could be responsible for leading the pledge, setting up the meeting room, helping you hand out items, etc. It's a way of starting to teach boys responsibility at the younger ages.

We had a bad weather experience at Klondike with Webelos a few years ago. After that, we've decided to offer it more as a day visit for the Webelos (unless they really want to go and we feel confident in their skills). The district doesn't want us bringing Webelos, but we think it's a good chance for them to see something cool in Boy Scouts. As for the decision, I believe you made the right one given your circumstances. We've pulled out a day early out of Klondike for four straight years - 3 of which were weather related. I put up with some of the other troops giving us grief, but I wasn't prepared to have our guys sleep in sub-zero temperatures given the fact that most boys in Kentucky don't have the gear or experience for it. Also, I agree with the council decision. Your wise decision to cancel doesn't mean they owe you a refund. If you pulled the plug on a troop-sponsored campout where reservations had been made, you wouldn't go to the company and ask for your money back. Why should you expect council to do that? Just my $0.02.