EagleInKY

Welcome to the party! We look forward to getting to know you.

Great story Brother... I appreciate you sharing it. I just got back from a rather frigid Klondike, and this warms the soul. I was just having a conversation with an ASM whose son is getting teased about Scouts. He's having a hard time of it as of late. It's sad that folks look down on those that are just trying to do good. I think a large part of it, deep down, is jealousy. They have something that they'll never have. Respect, honor, trustworthiness. Thanks for sharing.

At the next COH, present the First Aid merit badge to the Scouts mother. Wow, that would be interesting. Reminds me of a story. This time about SWMBO... Last year at Summer Camp, the leaders get a nice dinner on Wednesday night. My wife volunteered to come down and hang out with the boys while all of the adults got their nice mid-week break from them for a couple of hours. It's a pretty easy gig. Walk with them to the dining hall, eat dinner, go to the flag ceremony, return to the campsite, hang out until we return. Well, wouldn't you know, one of the scouts threw his retainer away. My wife, knowing full well the cost to replace a retainer, went with the boy back to the mess hall to search for the retainer. Believe it or not, they found it. (Oh, did I mention that it was lasagna night!!!) All of us dads were amazed she would do that. We said the poor lad would be on his own if it were us. At the next COH I presented her with a custom-made MB card with a new MB design on it.... the merit badge she earned??? Dumpster Diving, of course.

I've seen reference to parents doing the work for the kids. I've seen this as well, way too many times. It's a fallback to the Cub Scout model. But I also think it's a problem with parenting today. Maybe it's been around forever, but I wonder what you think and what you do about it (if anything). Here's two quick examples: Example #1 - Last year's "problem child" scout has come a long way. I've talked about this lad many times. He's turned from a problem child to a PGPL (Pretty Good Patrol Leader). He still has issues, but he's getting there. This week "he" sent out a reminder e-mail to his patrol about the campout this weekend. It was well-written and to the point. I responded, complementing him on the note. I didn't hear back. My son saw him at school and said something like, "I saw your note, thanks for doing that". The lad responded, "well, actually my mom sent it, I'm too lazy". Example #2 - Several guys are working on First Aid MB with one of our Committee members. One of the moms came up to me before a meeting and asked about some item that needed to go in the First Aid Kit and how she was having trouble finding it. I told her that was between her son and the MB Counselor. She repeated the question.... I repeated the answer. Later that night, I saw her cornering the MB counselor. Unfortunately, he didn't give her the same answer as me. So, I'm sure you've got tons of stories as well. That's just two of many for me. Do you do anything to combat this?

Beav - Nope, never bought it. Grew up in a scouting family so I knew better. Mommies doing the work. Yep, I've got that issue too. I feel a spinoff coming.

I remember when I was a scout, I often attended roundtables. Now, that was primarily because my dad was our SM and mom ws the Cub RT commissioner. But, I almost always went to the BS RT. I also remember other scouts there. In fact, I made some of my best scouting friends among that group of fell youth leaders in the area. I've recently had similar thoughts and have thought about bringing it up to the other scouters.

Hmmm, the sleepyhead scout. Attacking the tent sometimes rousts them out. We've also been known to drag a boy out in his sleeping bag. No, no, no, we don't haze. But we may harass a little. Depending upon who it is.

Holy Time Machine Batman! btps.... uh, February 6th, 2005 is Scout Sunday. We encourage all scouts to wear their uniform to church that morning. They are encouraged to either participate at their own church, or join us at our Charter Sponsor. The troop will have a pot-luck lunch afterward, folled by a Court of Honor. Since it's Super Bowl Sunday, I expect we'll get out of their fairly early. Now, let's all sing "Let's do the time warp again!"

Hungry!

I also believe that the best SM appears to be the a lazy SM. Barry, I love that. I'll have to quote you from time to time. Recently, on a campout, we had some Webelos with us. The first year scouts were off learning some first aid, the older scouts had the Webelos back in the woods teaching them how to build a shelter. The new dads are standing around the fire asking what they needed to do. "Throw another log on the fire and relax", I said. I really think they thought I must have been the laziest guy out there. I tried to explain to them that this is how it's supposed to work. We're just here to make sure they don't go astray or do something stupid. And to have fun with them. Anyway, I digress. Regarding this topic. I don't think there's a right answer. There are valid reasons for both approaches. We do it like KS for a variety of reasons. Mostly to keep my sanity, I think. There's three of us that need to be involved with setting it up. The boy, the Advancement Chair and me. The boy needs to be prepared for the BOR, the AC needs to line up the members of the board, and I need to provide him with the advancment paperwork. I also like to be there so I can first have a conversation with the BOR about the boy. And to introduce him to them. So, yes, I could tell the boy to schedule the BOR with the AC after we have our conference. The AC would then call me and tell me the date so I would have the paperwork for him. It just seems like an extra step. I guess the boy may learn a little from it, but - at least so far - I haven't been convinced of the value. But, hey, I'm open minded (on some things). I'll have to think on it some more.

We ask every family, when their son joins the troop, to volunteer at least one parent to serve as either a ASM or a Committee Member. The vast majority choose MC over the ASM role. I think the reasons are (1) they feel they don't have the time to make the commitment, (2) they see it as a "uniform" position and don't want to be that "dedicated", and (3) it's only a heartbeat away from SM.

Lots of activities have patches - whether it's scout night at a local sports team, or a museum, cave, air show, etc. Almost all of them sell generic patches. And, if they don't, you can always buy a generic patch from the scout shop. AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO YELL.

E-Man! Great Post!

Bravo Semper Dude. Sounds like you made a really good move. I hope he turns out to be a great asset to you.

Korea - Our process is almost identical to yours. I think it works pretty well. I could see it getting more difficult as we get larger. I usually try to give the advancement chair a heads up that a BOR is coming up. We usually don't know for sure until the week before. I don't think it's a big deal for the SM to coordinate the scheduling of the BOR. Since the SM Conference tends to be the last step before the BOR, it's a logical process. On the early ranks, I initiate the SM Conference. As the scouts get older (1st Class, Star and Life), they start showing a lot more initiative in pushing for both of these to happen. I haven't had this happen (multiple ranks scenario), so I don't know for sure how I'd handle it. I think I'd handle it like Korea and schedule them a week apart.

We have parents sign two general release permission slips when they join the troop. One is for medical treatment (probably not worth the paper it's on, but still done). The other is for release to use their picture in print and online media. It does state that no personal information will ever be disclosed. We update these forms every year or so just to keep updated copies on file.

Acco, you wrote "My personal preference is NOT to have a Muslim one week, a Jew the next, a Christian ... A smorgasbord of religious leaders leading prayers service with sectarian prayer is not in the best interest of Scouting IMO. If sectarian prayer or services are desired - a Catholic service, Jewish service, etc. held simultaneously a la National Jamboree is one solution but you will always get a few complaints about the religion not represented. " Are we talking services or just prayers at the beginning and end of meetings? If we're just talking about prayers, then I think the person leading the prayer should be able to lead it according to his religious preference. You can do this without being very sectarian or threatening other beliefs. Now, I can see where a prayer can cross the bounds of religious tolerance. Let's say a Christian prays to turn all of the sinners in the Middle East to Christ or if a Muslim prays for a Holy Jihad to rain down on Christians. In those cases, we would definitely have an issue. Now, when it comes to religious services, I agree with you. At a large event, like Jamboree, you can offer a multitude of religious services for each specific group. In fact, my dad is getting to go to the Jamboree to help with our religious group's services. (40 years of scouting, it's his first Jamboree, he's excited). But, we should always offer "Scouts Own" worship services so that people from any faith can come together and worship in an open, non-threatening, non-sectarian way.

scoutldr - A charter organization can, if they prefer, be more exclusive in their membership requirements than the BSA. While I have never met a professional scouter that preferred they do it this way, it's just going to be necessary in order to sell scouting within some organizations. As for district events, as long as they would allow a Jewish or Muslim person to take turns leading the prayer, it shouldn't be an issue. Let's say a Jewish person said, "Hey, I'd like to lead the prayer next month". If the district's reply was that he couldn't, then I think you would have a problem.

green bar = PLC. Check out the patches. SPL, ASPL, PL and TG all have green bars on the patch. This goes back a long way in scouting history. Bill Hillcourt, aka "Green Bar Bill", introduced the patrol method in the BSA. He wrote several of our handbooks, PL handbooks and for Boys Life. He also wrote one of the main biographies of Baden Powell. There's a link on the right hand side of these pages that take you to a page dedicated to him. Terry, the scouter that runs this site, was a personal friend and protege.

troop251scout - You sound very much like my overachieving son. He's currently ASPL and feels very much like you. He is very dedicated, and gets frustrated that others aren't as "into it" as much as him. I counsel him often about patience and accepting that others aren't going to be as dedicated to it as much as he is. And, that's okay. You get out of it what you put into it. You'll learn a lot about leadership through the process. Best of luck!

I think #1 & #3 are perfectly valid. I think I've heard both asked in BORs. #2 has some problems in that it is exclusionary to Christianity. Even if you know a person is a Christian, I'm not sure the purpose or value of the question. Semper - I've heard #1 asked toward the end of the BOR. It was asked in a very positive tone. There is no right answer. But, it's interesting to hear the responses. The best answer, imho, is that he'll be disappointed, but he'll find out what he needs to work on, go back and correct it, and come back again.

In our troop, for a boy to run for SPL, they need to have obtained the rank of Star, served in a Greenbar position and have SM approval. The SM can waive a requirement if he so chooses. For example, as a young troop, we only had one boy reach Star before the last election. So, we waived the Star requirement. I could also see waiving the greenbar requirement if a boy had served as a Den Chief for a year and shown outstanding leadership. I really don't like lots of extra rules and quotas. I would hope the boys would make the right decision based upon common sense. Unfortunately, we know that's not always the case.

Semper - Of course not! I was speaking to his particular situation, the Canadian anthem being played at a Hockey game.

Have you Googled on Bugles. (Don't know if it will work, but it sounds cute!) Ebay. Army/Navy stores. Music stores. Old band directors.

I believe the proper protocol is to stand at attention and respect flags of other nations. You only salute official US flags, including the predecessors (the Betsy Ross, the 48 star, etc.)