EagleInKY

Welcome to the forum!

I agree with FS. We're sometimes juggling drivers up to the last second. And, depending upon the activity, a boy may suddenly be able to go at the last second. So, I don't think those warrant a new permit. If an adult on the permit changes, and they are the one certified for Safe Trip Afloat, then you should probably refile. I'm not sure I'd worry about it on an average campout. I would definitely refile if a date or destination changed.

Here's some old ones for the Class 3 Physical Crowd: "If you think it's butter, but it's not, it's that grease left over from this morning's bacon". "Hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, special order DO upset us" - From your Summer Camp dining hall staff. "Two great tastes that taste great together" - Hobo Meals! 'MMMMM, Good Cracker" - Scoutmaster Cracker Barrels Rock! Sanitary Tablets - "Softens your hands while you do the dishes". "Aren't you glad you use Dial? Don't you wish all your Scouts did?" "The best part of waking up, is Folgers in your cup", that is if Hops Scout is in your troop and he made it for you before you got up. Exploring - "We're the other guys". Smores, they're "Finger Lickin' Good".

Not every year, it really depends upon demand. Our council does it about every 18 months. However, demand was so high for last Fall's course (they had to turn people away), they decided to go ahead and do one this Spring. The next one isn't planned for another 18 months, however.

Congrats Kristi. You're making great strides. Your pack will be much stronger due to your efforts.

Begging for leaders at events or parent's meetings seldom work, especially if it feels like begging or pressure. But here are some suggestions to make it work. 1) You have to become a scouting evangelist. Sell the scouting program to them. Make them understand this IS the best thing they can do for their son. 2) Allow them options of limiting the scope of their job. Jobs can revolve around one event (PWD coordinator, Popcorn Sales or Blue & Gold). Just think, if you get three people to take on those three activities, you've just made the CMs job much easier. 3) When I took over as CM many moons ago, I was taking over for a control freak. He had to run everything. Hence, when I took over, there were no ACMs, no real committee members, nothing at the pack level. After I was installed as CM, we did a little skit. They gave me my patch, then they brought out a box of stuff. I don't remember everything that was in it, but it included a box of popcorn (representing popcorn chair), checkbook (treasurer), a whistle (Den Leader Coach), streamers (B&G chair), PWD cars (PWD Chair), paperwork (Advancement chair), etc. You get the idea. As they kept piling on things, I showed a look of shock and disbelief like "what have I got myself into". At the end of it, I told everyone that I was only one person and could not do the job alone. If anyone would like to help, see me after the meeting. After the meeting I signed up two new leaders (treasurer and popcorn chair). It was a great start and the beginning of turning that pack around. Best of luck.

AZ - I think you may be "double clicking" the "Submit Your Message" button.

I'm dealing with a similar situation right now. I've been planning to post for advice, but it still gets me too upset. Is there a person that can serve as a mediator? Perhaps someone that all three look up to or consider a fair and reasonable person. This could be another leader, a former leader, someone on the committee, etc. If so, have that person organize a sit down discussion. They should do their homework, so they know what the issues are from each side. I wish you luck. Scouting is too much fun to be spoiled by this kind of stuff.

Back in the old days (when I was a scout), the common recruiting approach was, "can't you just give one our a week for your son". Now it's an old joke. lynn and her husband have each signed up for that "majic hour", therefore the two hours per week.

I'm with acco about handling cars. We only let the boys handle their cars. I don't want to be the adult that accidentally drops a car. If a boy drops his car, we have tools there where it can be repaired. The Cub is allowed to go with an adult (not his parent) to repair the car. After it's repaired it is quickly reweighed and returned to the track. This usually happens about once a year (pack of around 60 boys) and it takes about five minutes to do.

Eamonn - While I'm not a fan of the big book of rules either, judging each on a case by case basis leaves you open for criticism and second-guessing. I just spent several hours this weekend with a couple of parents that were upset over some decisions that I have made. All of them were perfectly legitimate, within the bounds of the BSA and in accordance with BSA policy and our troop's practice. Nevertheless, when it comes to a gray area, people will question it if they feel like they've been treated unfairly. Hunt - I think your solution might work. It's a nice balance between hard-nosed rules and being understanding of situations that cannot be helped.

FScouter - But, it does not (to my knowlege) say "Field Uniform". It only says uniform. Since scouting does acknowledge an "Activity uniform", and argument can be made for allowing saluting in it, as well.

Welcome. Sounds like you and your husband are now firmly committed to "two hours per week". Sorry, old scouting recruiting joke. Hope you enjoy the ride.

It's not that uncommon. I know our Woodbadge staff all had campaign hats. Some of them bought it just for the event. Also, Summer Camp staff had to all wear Venturing uniforms, even though most of them were not in Venturing prior to that.

Our DE even refers to Class A & Class B.... Come to think of it, summer camp staff (also professionals), also used the term. I wish scouting would either come up with a reasonable name, or just embrace the class naming system. As for saluting, as long as a scout is in a legitimate class b,... oops, activity uniform, then I believe it is acceptible to salute. Legitimate meaning that if he's wearing a t-shirt with blue jeans, white socks, tennis shoes and a Packer's hat, then he's not in uniform. IMHO.

Barry - You're idea about having the meetings in conjunction with the troop is very interesting. I'll have to think about that for next year. I believe that was a big factor in your successful transition. I'll give you a creativity award for that idea. This past year's crossovers came from a den that didn't hold a real regular schedule. They typically met twice a month, but the days and times sometimes varied because of the leader's schedules. Therefore, the transition to a weekly meeting at the same time, same place, every week, was challenging to some.

I've seen Webelos dens accomplish their goals by meeting only twice a month. The problem comes when they go to scouts. Virtually all troops have a weekly meeting, and they are year-round. Therefore, it's a major culture shock to them. It's also frustrating to me that parents will send their sons to soccer practice twice a week and a game on Saturday, but complain about one-hour a week for scouting. One thing you should probably work on is selling them the bigger picture of scouting. Our dens started meeting three times a month as Wolves, and never stopped. It made the transition to Boy Scouts much easier. Here's an option, if you can't get to three times a month (with the fourth being the Pack Meeting). Agree to have two meetings, one pack meeting, and one activity per month. The timing of the activity will vary based upon the activity itself. The activity will fall in the week you don't have a meeting. In this way, the boys are still getting together every week in some capacity, but it doesn't feel as much like a weekly meeting. Just a thought...

Hi Newbie. I feel your pain. But, there's no need to shout. I really do understand where you're coming from. Your son will grow more through these experiences by you working with him through them than the boys whose parents build the cars for them. Take your time to be patient with him and help him deal with the frustration. Every year, I see a significant number of cars that were obviously built by dad. When I was CM, I jokedly refered to the "Best Design" Award as the "Most Likely Built By Dad" Award. Here's some suggestions - - Get your pack to move away from double-elimination. This is hard to break because there are nay-sayers who will take you that the other methods take too long. They are wrong. Our rotation method is faster than double elimination ever was. - Get you pack to sponsor workshops to help boys build their cars. Find one of these crafsman dads who have the equipment and skills to put it on. Obviously, some of them do have the skills. - Relax, have fun, and remember that this is just one event. Scouting is much more than that. We've all had frustrating moments. Believe me, I give you tons of personal examples. But, in the end, your son will be blessed by the time you and he spend together in Scouting.

Something tells me there is more to the story as well. I would check with the principal to make sure, but generally, if a boy is handing a flier to a friend, then there is should not be much of a concern. It would be no different than him handing him an invitation to a birthday party. But, if they are standing at the front door of the school handing them to every boy, then you've got an issue.

foto - I respectfully disagree. I agree with the concept that the PWD is more about building the car than racing it. Therefore, you've just given yourself the argument for why the car shouldn't be run. If the point of PWD is to build the car, then you've accomplished the goal. Life is about choices. Around here, I've found that most of the time, the conflicts are a winter basketball league that runs from December through February. The chance of a boy's one-hour game overlapping with his one-hour PWD race, is relatively low. But, if it does, he has a choice to make. Most boys in our pack have chosen the PWD over a single basketball game. As for the boy with a death in the family, I would certainly make an exception for that. Anyone who questioned it would have to be cold-hearted and only concerned about winning. I'd get a friend of his, from a different den, to represent him in the race. Racing by proxy, you could say. I would not, as CM, race the car for him. We had a situation one year where all of our second year Webelos were on the school's academic team. Really, every single one of them was on the academic team. The district championships for the academic teams were that Saturday. So, for that year, we raced that den on Friday night after the track was set up. We felt it was a reasonable excuse to miss. The winning cars were raced by proxy in the pack championship on Saturday.

Another example of a vague rule creating inconsistencies. We, too, have been told that to be an official MBC, you have to register for it every year.

I am probably harder on my son than any other boy in the troop. In fact, go ahead and take probably out of that statement, I am harder on him than any other boy in the troop. But it doesn't stop others from accusing you of favoritism. The best you can do, I've found, is to make sure decisions regarding your are shared and agreed upon by the other ASMs of the troop.

Our rule is that it cannot damage the track (we've seen some come close), it cannot be too tall to fit under the finish line. As for length, the starting area doesn't allow it to be too long.

Kristi - We have a "you must be present to race" rule as well. We've ahd some try to change it in the past, usually letting a sibling race for them. I've always opposed such a rule.

I'll allow our guys to have some debate. We have a variety of "labels" in our troop as well. When it degrades to disrespectul behavior on any one person's part, no matter which side they are on, the discussion stops. Luckily, it's only happened a couple of times. When I or another adult tells them the discussion is over, they are not to bring it up again. (Usually the "ban" would last for the remainder of the meeting or campout). It's also a good chance to bring in a lesson on living by the scout law (A Scout is Coureous is a good one).