EagleInKY

Hold on Semper dude. While your process is sound, it's based upon a really big assumption. csm, some questions: - Just so we know where you're coming from, what is your role in the pack? - How do the parents in his den feel about him? Is it unanimous? - Is Semper's assumption correct? The reason I ask these questions is that I often see people frustrated with a leader, but it is just their opinion. No one person can (or should) be able to get rid of a leader (except maybe the COR). I've known of situations where a bunch of the pack leaders really butted heads with a den leader, but come to find out, the parents of his den loved him. I also know of leaders (including yours truly) that try to run the program by the book but are criticized by parents who want special priveleges for their sons, or don't agree with "the book". The most common one I've seen are parents wanting us to not have true boy leadership. In most of these cases, they know that their son will never be elected to a position on their own. Anyway, I digress. Help us understand your situation a little better. It's always good to look at the situation from all angles.

We'll be on the New River about the same time as your troop, Hops. We're also planning a short backpacking trip to Red River Gorge (KY) in September.

I know of situations where there was going to be a delay in the COH, so they went ahead and gave him the patch. However, they asked him to put the Life patch back on for the COH. I've heard it argued on this forum that instant recognition is important, but I think it's better on this occasion to wait. Our district does something cool. They present the scout with a certificate naming him "Eagle Scout Candidate John Smith", dated on the the day of his BOR. They present it to him at the end of the BOR, and then usually the SM will present it to him again in front of his troop. I think this is a great idea and one that helps alleviate the let-down sometimes caused by the wait to get paperwork processed and a COH planned and scheduled.

Interesting idea, I had not thought of that. It would present some challenges to get it in at camp. I would think you'd have to dedicate 2-3 hours every day. That would take away some of the effect. However, on the other hand, they would be able to go back to their campsites and put some of it to work immediately. I'll have to think on it some more.

Semper answered for me...

Okay, not to sound sarcastic, but.... if the den leaders aren't keeping track of progress and the cubmaster is unorganized, how do you expect advancement to ever be recognized? In Cubs, the parents are responsible for the signoff, the den leader for tracking it, and the cubmaster for awarding it. This changes some with Webelos, in that the signoff becomes more the Webelos leader's responsibility. It changes drastically in Boy Scouts, when the parent's have no sign-off authority.

Beaver - Welcome aboard. You've gotten some good advice. The rush to outdoor activities is a double-edged sword. I've seen boys drop from Cubs because of the lack of outdoor activities, and I've also seen boys drop because their leaders were pushing a big outdoor program before they were emotionally ready for it. Hopefully, taking it slow should help ease those who are nervous about it, and appease those who are anxious for it.

As for high adventure. Lets change that to outside adventure. We found several scouts had no desire for high adventure but wanted to do something outside of the normal troop program. Great post Barry. I agree. While High Adventure appeals to a great number of scouts, there are other "adventures" that can be just as fun for them. It's interesting you used the roller coaster example. I have an energetic young PL that kept suggesting amusement parks at our annual planning session. I could tell the SPL and the other PLC members weren't that interested in doing it. And, our summer was already pretty full with a long weekend campout, Summer Camp and a whitewater trip. I finally stepped in and suggested he take that as a good patrol activity. He could get a couple of the parents to drive them to our local Six Flags. He would have to coordinate the schedule, the transportation, the costs, etc. It would be a great experience. I don't know if he'll follow through. We'll have to wait and see.

Related question to add to the responses. How do you handle it when a boy leaves the troop? Our policy has been that the money transfers into the general fund of the troop. We've never had anyone challenge that, but we've haven't had very many leave, and those that did probably didn't have much in their accounts.

Cubie - My apologies, but I struggled following what is going on in your pack. Most packs I'm aware of follow a process like this. Den Leaders provide the CM (or designated advancement person) a list of completed work (Bobcat, belt loops, special awards, etc.). Usually, this is provided at the monthly pack leaders meeting, which is usually a couple of weeks before the pack meeting. Then the CM or adv. person goes to the scout shop and purchases the awards and has them ready for the pack meeting.

I've recognized parents for helping with certificates or gifts (scout shop has tons of things - paperweights, coffee mugs, plaques, etc.). Personalized gifts from the scouts are always nice. When I left as CM, the pack gave me a really nice mantle clock. It's beautiful and I'm proud to display it. But I still love looking at the framed homemade thank you's that came from each of the dens. She sounds like a good candidate for ACM or a Committee Member. Get her registered and then she can be nominated for your district's recognition awards.

We use TroopLedger. It handles scout accounts just fine. If your looking for something as easy as Quicken, this isn't it. But it gets the job done. On fundraisers that are directly linked back to a boy (such as popcorn sales), we would split the profit 50/50. We've changed our philosophy, and now we are experimenting with giving 100% of individual fund-raising back to the boy. Group activities will go 100% into the troop's general fund.

Our Troop PLC chose "Do a Good Turn" as the theme for February. We've got a couple of service projects lined up. We've also got a few meeting ideas. But the creative juices are running slow. I thought I'd post out here and see if any good ideas came up. (I know they will). We're looking for good ideas for games, activities, patrol meeting ideas, etc. Any ideas would be appreciated. I'll pass them on to our SPL.

Ditto. Absolutely. No doubt about it. Wear them! How can we get the boys to overcome their fear of public embarrassment of wearing the uniform if we adults don't set the example.

Welcome to the forum. My first trip to Philmont was in the summer of 79 as well. Who knows, maybe we shared some bug juice at a chuck wagon out there.

Whew. For a second I thought you were saying they were offering a two week long course. I don't think I could handle singing "Back to Gilwell" that many times!!!

Semper - This would be "Camogate".

Semper dude pretty much nailed it (as usual). The SM needs to be working with these guys regarding their responsibilities and how they need to fulfill them. If it's an ability thing, he needs to work on training them. If it's a motivation thing, he needs to work on coaching them. If it's an attitude thing, and they are unwilling to adjust, he may have to look at removing them from position. I've got a similar issue. SPL is running for re-election next month. He's done a pretty good job and I think his second term would be a good one. He told me last week that he might not be able to go to Summer Camp (family may be going out of town). He knows our expectation - all boys go to camp. I'm in a real quandry about what to do. We do talk about percantage of attendance in the form of goals. SPL is expected to be at "everything". What does that mean in reality? Probably 90-95% of activities and meetings. The position is simply that important. PLs and Troop Guide are expected to have outstanding attendance as well. I think we tell them that they should exceed 80%. Again, we don't measure this per se. It's just to give them an idea of what is expected of them.

Do a Google search on "Scout Sunday Sermons", you'll get a lot of links. Here's one that talks about 25 ideas of making a better Scout Sunday: http://www.etexscouts.com/reverent_resources.html

Well, if the memo is fake, I would assume the BSA would have come out and said it was. Any organization would take steps to stamp out false rumors, especially by an executive (be he current or former). Therefore, I can only assume that the memo is true. So, the next question would likely be "why has the BSA not clarified its position?". I can only assume that they either agree with it and consider that enough, or they cannot think of a better stance to take. Perhaps they received some pressure from the military to take this stance...

It sounds like a great idea. You just want to make sure you approach it the right way. The den leader could see it as a power plan. I find it strange that you don't know another den leader in your pack that has the same age group, but I guess that's another story. I'd first talk to the CM and see if there's anything you need to know. If the other den is struggling, the den leader may be burnt out and looking for relief. Also, to alleviate some of the "power play" concerns, you could approach it as a "merger" and become "co-den leaders". We've done that several times in our packs.

Actually Dan, while not written down as official "policy", the BSA has taken a position that camo and other military and hunting style clothing is not appropriate for boy scouts. Back when Roy Williams was director of the Boy Scout Division, he issued a memo stating "hunting and military-style clothing, combined with or worn instead of the official Boy Scout or Explorer uniform, are not acceptable wear during any Boy Scouting or Exploring activity. Scout Executives are to instruct unit leaders and volunteers that those articles of clothing along with equipment like pistol belts, suspenders and military field gear are not allowed to be worn with official Boy Scouts of America clothing or in the place of BSA uniforms and outdoor clothing." The BSA has never come out clarified any more, as far as I know. To this day, this is the only official statement that I've ever heard about regarding military style gear.

Lynn, if you PM me your e-mail, I'll send you a presentation I did at a pow wow regarding turning around a struggling pack. Unfortunately, you've got a much more severe problem than I had. We had dwindled from around 100 to 24 (with probably around 15 active). In four years, we were back over 60 with a rich and exciting program. The pack continues to do well. I would take a very focused approach. Try to build from the ground up. Focus on getting Tigers and Wolves. Get these young ones in and use them as a foundation to build on. Leverage your history. People love to hear about units with tradition. Let people see the vision you have for returning this unit to its proper status. Good luck.

Laurie - My heartfelt prayers and thoughts are with you and your family. At least Ryan is now soaring on Eagle's wings!

The bandit chaser is right. Go and have fun. I made several new friends and got to know some fellow scouters much better. Last weekend we had our University of Scouting and I must have seen half of our Woodbadge class there. The first threes sessions was taught by my ASM, SM and SPL. It brought back memories.