EagleInKY

Congrats Beav. I'm still working on mine. "I used to be an Antelope"

Vicki - Sorry it wasn't clear. Three things bugged me about this. (1) This wasn't the scout initiating working on a MB with a MBC. It was a mom clearly initiating the process. (2) She wasn't getting them so he could work with a MBC, she was planning on working with him and "signing off on them". (3) And since her son was missing Summer Camp, she wanted him to "keep up" with the other boys. This is another pet peeve, the whole "race to advancement" we've talked about. Her son has plenty of time. Missing one SC will not prevent him from making Eagle.

Things dont seem to be running as smoothly as the next troop down the roads program, but any idea as to when you all think we will be there? We're in a similar situation. I'd like to say that you will be there in exactly ## months, ## days. But it's just not that easy. Every group of boys is different. One thing is for sure, the road to boy leadership is never-ending. Once you think you are there, you'll have some turnover (older boys leave, newer boys come in) and you're working with it all over again. But, as it becomes a culture in your troop, it will begin to work smoother. This is our first year of really letting go of the reigns. It's been quite a challenge for me. Many times I want to step in, but I hang back and see how they handle it. Every once in a while I step in, but I prefer to do it off to the side. For example, one of my older scouts (who is quite immature) has been giving the leaders a tough time the last few weeks. I pulled him off to the side this past week and made it VERY CLEAR that he needed to shape up. Many good suggestions posted here, and I don't have any new to add. Here are the ones that I think are most effective for your (and my) situation: - 1-on-1 time with the SPL. Give him lots of coaching about what goes right and what doesn't. I've also assigned one of our ASMs to be a coach for the senior leadership. He's very insightful and a good businessman/leader, so he gives them some very good, solid and direct feedback. - Agendas! Getting boys to use them is a tough task. But it makes everything go much more smoothly. Here's a place where I still help. The boys prepare the troop meeting plan, but I still put the final pieces of it together. I'm planning on eventually transitioning out of that. As for the PLC, the SPL now runs it on his own. But I still interject comments throughout. I hope to become quieter as time goes by. - Impromptu PLC meetings as they are needed. We do this nearly every week. Usually it's just standing in the corner after the troop meeting making sure everything is good for the next week. - While your boys are still young, use adults in your meetings to augment the work for the senior boys. If you put everything on the shoulders of a few older boys, you might overload them. I try to put as much on them as I think they can handle, plus a little more. Anything left over, we adults try to help with. - Mock (adult-run) PLC Meeting as part of JLT. This has been a good experience, especially for the boys who have not been in a PLC meeting. Barry - "By the way, by the end of our JLTC course, the scouts personally write over 18 agendas. " Just curious. What types of agendas do they prepare? 18 per scout?

"In our troop, there is an unwritten rule." If the rule goes against national's policy, is it a valid rule? And, if it's unwritten, is it really a rule? Is it worth the paper it's not written on? Anyway, we don't have a policy around this. We encourage boys to seek adults other than their parents for MBCs. But, being in a small troop in a district that doesn't publish a MBC list, we're on our own to find counselors. We have a list of parents willing to counsel a variety of MBs. If a boy wants to work on a MB where there is not a counselor, he is responsible for finding one. (We'll help, if we can). One thing we're doing this year is working to educate parents about the MB process. Hopefully, if the parents understand the rules, we'll have less problems with the parents pushing them the wrong direction. For example, we have a scout that is going to miss Summer Camp. Mom calls me a couple of weeks ago. She asks a question about the scout shop. I - being curious as I am - ask her what she was doing. "Oh, I'm buying the MB books for the badges he was going to take at camp. I'm hoping we can work on them and he can complete them by summer". I explained to her that this was not how the process worked. But it points to the fact that parents will sometimes try to drive the boys the wrong direction just out of interest in the boy's success. It's not that she was deliberatly breaking some rules. She didn't understand the process. Her son and husband both knew the process, however, and weren't going to stop her.

I have. Both as a Cubmaster and Scoutmaster. And, I would welcome anyone to visit our meetings as well. Learning from each other is a great method of improving both programs. Of course, Roundtables should accomplish this to an extent, but nothing beats seeing it in person.

I believe it is always appropriate for a scouter to be in uniform at a scout event. But, I would first ask your son, if he wants you to "just be dad" for the day, then that's fine too. But don't ever not wear the uniform because you think it will take away from something. Actually, I believe it adds to it. Think of the guests (friends, family, church members, etc.) that may never see the two of you together in scout uniform. This opens their eyes to a totally new picture of you and your son.

There are lots of fund raising ideas, but you have to first understand your goals and how you want to obtain them. For example, do you want it to be entirely boy-run? Do you want to partner with parents/adults? Are you looking for ways that committee can raise money? All are valid, but serve different purposes. Boy-run ideas - - Selling almost anything. (Around here, Krispy Kreme donut sales are very effective). - Popcorn (you missed the date on that) - Car washes - Service programs (mowing lawns, cleaning up, etc.) Boy/Adult ideas - - Yard sale event - Christmas tree/wreath sales - Chili supper/spaghetti supper - Silent auction (often done at suppers) - Food booth at community festival Adult-oriented ideas - Talk to CO about dontating funds for camp Restaurant/business loyalty cards (For example, our parents all have loyalty cards at a local grocery store. The troop gets 4% of all purchases on the card). Partner with local business for fund-raiser (this may be boy/adult as well). For example, around here there are restaurants that will sponsor you for an evening. You advertise to get as many people in that night. You then get a percentage of sales. These are normally done on "off nights" in the restaurant business. Sometimes, you have to have adults volunteer to help (bus tables, etc.). Hope these get the creative juices going!

OGE - Good point. I think that's something that OA'ers need to take to heart. We're having our elections tonight. At our last PLC meeting, I spoke about the tradition and honor of the OA. I explained what it was about (this is the first election in our troop). I talked about cheerful service and explained a little about the ordeal. Of course, one of our younger PLs quickly added that he hoped he would never get elected, it sounded like too much work to him! I think the point is that some scouts reflect on their ordeal and realize that they have not been living a life of cheerful service. Many come back more open and willing to help than ever before. Others, who look at it as slave labor, never get the point and will probably continue to work to avoid work.

I agree with Barry about escalating to the District level to get signoff. I wouldn't want to go into an Eagle BOR down the road without plenty of documentation. As for white water rafting, canoeing or any other event on water, this scout cannot be permitted to participate. You need to make sure he and his parents understand it. Perhaps, over time, his fear will subside. Especially if he sees the fun they have on the whitewater trip. At that time, I'd make sure he can succesfully complete those requirements before allowing him to go.

Nope. You can purchase one of the specialty patches, and wear it as a temporary patch on the right pocket.

Welcome to the forums Baden. With your name, it sounds like you are a lover of scout history and tradition. It will be great to have another one on board.

Boys sitting on BOR was the official process up until sometime in the 1980s. While it had some sound logic and I personally liked it, there was enough complaints and/or perceived problems that the BSA did away with it in favor of the process we have today. Frankly, Dug, I think this is a process you should change. If we are truly going to live by the Scout Oath & Law, we need to follow the rules. The BSA has been crystal clear on this one (I know they are vague in many areas). A Scout is Obedient, a troop should be too. I'm not sure about your patrol selection process. If you've described it, I missed the post. That, I believe, is an example of an area where the BSA is pretty vague. Whatever reasonable way a troop comes up with should be okay. Same way for elections. Nevertheless, I look forward to hearing more from you. It sounds like you've got an interesting troop.

I hadn't heard the "deathbed Eagle" term before either. I agree that I'd rather have a bunch of deathbed Eagles than a bunch of 14 year old Eagles that disappear just when they are at the perfect age to lead the troop. Back in my day, most of the guys made Eagle around 16. If they were 16, mature, and shown good leadership, they were almost always made JASM. This was a big deal to us. Suddenly we had an "pseudo-adult" patch on our shirts. We got to eat with the adults on campouts. We started doing things that ASMs would normally do. It was cool. At 16-17 you are wanting to be treated like an adult, and our troop did everything they could to make it feel that way. Now, before you over-react. No, we couldn't drive to an outing. Back then we could tent with adults, but that would be a no-no now. What you can do though is partner them with an ASM and let them share duties. A lot of boys would really enjoy that and would appreciate the additional amount of responsibility and respect.

Believe it or not, our meetings have actually gotten more boring since becoming boy-led. I think there are a few potential reasons: - our SPL & ASPL are very mature, and more interested in learning/teaching than playing games. - some of our younger guys are wild and can get out of control (no surprise), so I think the PLC avoids things that they think may get out of control (i.e. a lack of confidence on their part). - they don't manage their time well. They'll have a fun activity planned, toward the end of the meeting. But they'll get behind on the skills portion, and the game often disappears. I'm working with them on these issues. Any thoughts or ideas?

FS - I would prefer "one patrol activity (sans adults)". I'd be happy if our patrols would organize anything (hike, field trip, game day, etc.). Others: " While a (FILL IN RANK) .... ... teach a basic scout skill to a first year scout, Cub Scout or Webelos Scout". ... participate in the planning of an event". ... organize and lead my patrol in a game". ... invite a friend to a scout meeting or activity". ... (going back to the B-P years) earn $1 (okay, so we would need to increase the amount, maybe $25?)".

Welcome to the forums! We look forward to getting to know you.

My goal is 1st Class by next March. Watercub - I made a similar comment a couple of years ago, and another poster jumped on me with both feet. It's common terminology for new leaders just moving up from cubs. I'll try to approach it will a little softer approach than was used on me. Remember, it's not your goal, it's the boys'. Some will jump in and work as hard and as fast as possible. Others will take two years to get to First Class. Your responsibility isn't to set goals for them, but to provide the opportunity for them to progress at their speed. To do this, you need to incorporate the advancement program as one component of the first year program. It needs to be intertwined with fun activities, exciting outings and interesting meetings. For example, here's what we're doing in May. The theme for the month is physical fitness/sports. At the first meeting, they'll do their first physical fitness test for Tenderfoot. During the month we're also going to talk about some first aid - especially for injuries that happen in sports, we'll go swimming at the YMCA, and play several different sports (soccer, softball, tag football) during troop meetings. The campout at the end of the month is going to include fishing, swimming, hiking and sports. The campground has volleyball, soccer and softball facilities. Finally, they'll come back the next month and have their second Tenderfoot test. So, what's the point of this? Advancement was not the program. Advancement was worked into the program. There's a big difference, and it really makes a difference in how much the boys enjoy the program.

Just echoing what others said. This is a remnant of old scouting days. Our troop certainly allows moms, but we've only had a few over the past two years. But they are always welcome, as long as they understand the adult's role in boy scouting. My guess is (and I have observed this), is that this SM thinks moms will be more likely to do the work for their sons. Now, we all know that dads can be just as guilty of it, but that may be what he fears the most. Go, have fun, make friends with the other adults. Stay out of the boys way. Don't carry your son's load. If your son messes up or struggles along the way, let the troop leadership deal with it. Take your cue from other adults. How do they act? You probably won't change the guy, but you may have fun trying.

In my perceived order: 1) They don't need it, it's the scoutmaster's job. 2) Lazy 3) They know it already 4) It's just a waste of time

Good luck. Have fun. Try to imagine you are a scout learning this for the first time. Don't get bogged down with the tickets, those will come. Make friends, they'll last a lifetime. And, if you're really lucky, you'll be an Antelope.

Our problem has been the proverbial can of worms. Let one person come, then another wants to bring their older brother, then their older sister and her friends, etc.... I would be okay with it, as long as it didn't evolve into these other problems. When we've had these discussions, I've had to sometimes remind people that it is for the scouts, not the brothers and sisters. We've also had issues with siblings wanting to come on the "fun" outings. You know, white water rafting, snow tubing, etc. They don't want to be around on the "regular" campouts. But something a little more exciting, sign them up. The only problem is that they want nothing to do with scouting unless it's for their benefit. Anyway, it's late in the day and I'm on a rant. My apologies.

Don't do "meetings" in the summer. Offer a fun program. If you do at least one activity a month, and at least 1/2 of our boys participate, you'll qualify for the Summertime Pack Award, and have a much greater retention. Here are some ideas: - Go to amusement park - Hold a pool party - Go to a baseball game - CUB DAY CAMP! - Fishing derby - Picnic / outdoor games - Cub-olympics - Rocket Derby (flying model rockets or rockets on a wire) - Raingutter regata

nld & CPS, Read Anarchist's post. He summarized it well. nld - If a scout brings something against the rules (switchblade, offensive material, cigarettes, etc.), do you think the SM doesn't have the right to confiscate it? He most certainly does. While those items are more serious, we are talking about things that are against the rules. If a troop or summer camp rules cell phones as prohibited, then that is the rules. Live by it, or go somewhere else. CPS - Stow the attitude son. You sound quite disrespectful to those that have been around for a few years longer than you.

C)... unless there is a history that makes you want a particular number. In our case, a troop had been in this area for over 30 years and folded a few years earlier. Coincidentally, it was the same as our pack #, even though the two were never associated with each other. It was an obvious choice.

I've seen den chiefs work and I've seen them fail. The two primary factors are very obvious. (1)The ability of the den leader (who is used to an adult-run system) to effectively empower and use the den chief, and (2)the maturity and ability of the den chief himself. As for the convenience factor, OneHour expressed it very well. While it is not a part of the scout law, it is a reality that we face. Families are facing competing demans. If a scout is qualified to be a den chief, and the scoutmaster and den leader agree that it is a good fit, then take advantage of the situation.