EagleInKY

Interesting theory Ed. I haven't thought of that. It would certainly increase volume and produce a more consistent run-rate. I'll have to ponder on that one.

It's crossover time again. We're preparing for some new parent orientations that will be scheduled over the next few months. Do you do New Parent Orienations? What type of information do you cover in yours? Here's the schedule we're working from First Troop Meeting - - Paperwork, paperwork... (adult & boy information, medical forms, etc.) - Finances - Dues, fees, campout costs, summer camp costs, etc. - Key upcoming dates - "The first two months". Helping them understand what to expect over the next couple of months. - Adult roles and where they can fit in (committee member, asm, etc.) - Training every adult should have (YPT, Fast Start, etc.) First Campout - - Patrol method & boy leadership (to be done while the experienced scouts are out teaching basic scout skills to new scouts). Future meeting - - Advancement (BOR, ranks, signoffs, etc.) - Merit badges (what they are, the process for working on them, etc) We've also talked about offering some of the basic training courses during troop meetings over the next few months (fast start, YPT, Safe Swim/Safe Trip Afloat, etc.). I know of a troop around here that does that. Has anyone done this?

Nope, but I am spending a week there with my family this summer (but not camping). Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Yes, the list is big this year. But I believe it was due. Several of these were in need of updating. From the few I've looked at, I believe they have been good changes.

Welcome to the forum. We hope to learn from your experiences.

Program, program, program! You need a program for these guys. Give them the chance to do some more adventurous things. Encourage them to lead the troop, not fade from the troop. If the SPL truly is the top leader in the troop, most 15-16 year old kids will jump at the chance to play that role. Perhaps you're not letting them lead enough. This might not be the case, but it does throw up a red flag. Get them involved in teaching younger scouts. Most 15-16 year olds that I know love to be the center of attention. Being the older, cooler, more knowledge scout gives them a big boost to the ego. Currently, our SPL is a 7th grader too. But that's because our troop is only two years old, and we only have two guys that are older than that. (One doesn't want to be SPL and the other had too many conflicts this spring to run).

Welcome to the forum Willis. I hope you find a good troop soon.

The only time service hours directly benefiting boy scouts is prohibited is for the Eagle Service project. That was changed back in the 70s. From what I remember hearing at the time, more and more service projects were being done for the district and council. The BSA thought it best to turn our eyes outside of ouselves for these projects. The other service projects can be to support scout camps, COs, events (such as Day Camp) or even other units (such as a Cub Scout Pack).

Pass our congrats to the younger yarrow. A job well done!

Bob - It wasn't meant to be derogitory to all mothers and fathers, just those that pamper their sons to the point that they are truly getting in the way of their sons' development. Ironically, one of the parent's (actually a "daddy") that we've been having challenges with calls his 13 year old "honey". As my teenage daughter would say, "disturbing". I've done all the basic things, prepared a parent's handbook for crossover, hold some new parent orientation sessions, and talk about the subject periodically in our committee meetings. But even with that, I'll have parents (almost always one or two particular mothers), who routinely will pick up the phone and say "what to do I need to pack for Billy for the campout this weekend?". Now, they're wording is usually not that obvious, but that's what they're trying to figure out. I've started telling them to have their son call the PL, but I've found out that now the mom is calling the PLs mom, which really doesn't get anything accomplished. A good example. We had a first year scout at summer camp who caused lots of problems. He almost got sent home mid-week. Lots of behavior issues, backtalking, etc. Always pushing the limits, but stopping just short of "the line". I called and talked to mom & dad a couple of times during the week. Now, if I were them and someone called about my son, he wouldn't want to come home at the end of camp. But not this family. Mom & dad come up for parent's night. I expect them to have a long talk with #1 son. But no, I'm walking by the tent, and see mom and dad in their packing up his clothes to go home the next morning. I has where little Tommy is, they said he wanted to go fishing. Mom and dad never confronted him on his behavior, and even showered him with welcome home gifts when he got home.

clpagel - Go to your council's website, and they'll have a link to the YP Training. The reason you want to go to your council's website is that the training is set up to customize certain information (contacts, local laws) in the reference area. By linking from your council's site, you'll get the correct info. You state that you are getting the "exact same" training at school and church. I truly doubt if that is the case. Scoutings YPT is oriented toward issues that come up in the scouting environment. While there will be some overlap, some of scouting's policies are likely to be unique.

Anarchist - I didn't say I cut across them, I said there are some that do. In this context, I meant that there are some "trailblazers" that try to short-cut the system.

The Troop Committee Challenge is a great training activity for the entire troop committee. Even include the SM & ASM if you can. It helps everyone understand their role in the troop better.

Great question E. I guess, for me, the weakest part was the "management traiing" (for lack of a better phrase). I've been trained on all of that many times in my professional career, so I got little out of it. However, some of the folks in my patrol were in blue collar positions or have less professional experience, so it was valuable to them. I think, for it to be valuable to the variety of people, they should keep it (in some fashion), but put more effort in applying it to scouting situations. The most valuable time was when we did just that - put it in the context of scouting. Whether it was the teamwork games or some of the role-playing, these activities were a lot more interesting. I also enjoyed the "down time" in the patrol campsite, where we talked about everything we were learning and our units back home. What have I used the most? I guess it's the ticket. I crafted my ticket around things that I knew needed to be done in my unit. Putting it in my ticket has given me the extra incentive to get it done, versus putting it off until next year.

Check out this thread, it was a poll regarding how much troops charge for fees and dues. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=78841#id_78875 I used the results of this informal survey when our troop committee started questioning how much we charged. But we were nothing compared to this. Here's a breakdown - $40 annual fee $60 in monthly dues ($5 per month) Pay as you go for activities (scouts and adults). We don't try to make a profit, just break even. It's typically around $12 a weekend. Sometimes more if there are costs involved in the campsite or program. We usually don't reimburse for gas, except for long trips. Summer Camp ($170 for boys, $50 for adults). The difference is largely caused by the difference in cost charged by our council. Scouts do supplement a small amount of the adults fees. "Special" trips vary based upon the program. We went to the Huntsville space center for their weekend program, and it was about $100 total cost. Our WW Rafting trip this year is going to cost close to $300. We do offer ways for scouts to earn money in their scout accounts to help pay for all of these items.

Lynda gave you a great answer. The rank requirements are all about being active with the troop and patrol. For example, the 2nd class requirement clearly states "Since joining, have participated in five separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), two of which included camping overnight." There is no way a family campout can be interpreted to be a "troop/patrol activity". As Lynda said, the Camping requirement is a little more vague. "Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched (long-term camp excluded)." The fact that they left the words "with your troop or patrol" out leads me to believe that non-scouting camping experiences that meet the other requirements are acceptible. But ONLY if the MB Counselor agrees to accept them. As Committee Chairman, I don't see either of these as being your issue to resolve. The rank advancement issue should be clear and communicated by the Scoutmaster with the backing of the Advancement Chairman. The Camping MB issue should be communicated as a decision made by the MB Counselor. You just need to stand firm according to the rules, which are pretty clear in this case.

Are you the SM or ASM (I see your profile says ASM). Depending upon how your adult leadership is structured, it could effect how you should approach this. As SM, I look at this type of situation as one that is clearly my responsibility to help with. First, I would make sure that my ASMs and I are in-synch on this. I wouldn't want to have this blow up in my face with the mom. My first step would be to have a sit-down with the boy. This time would be with an ASM. I would explain to him clearly the expectations. Explain to him that he may have to be removed from office if he cannot fulfill these responsibilities. Second, I would meet with the parents to find out what is going on with the son. Is he having similar problems in school? at home? What are some methods to better deal with him? Parents often have "tricks" that work on motivating their kids. If you can learn and use them, that's great. For instance, I have a boy that has problems with being told "no". He needs to understand the "why" as well. So, I try to take the time to explain to him the "why" behind the "no" whenever I can. Removal from office may be your next step. But remember that the other tool you have is the "living by the scout oath and law" requirement. It's been discussed here often. I believe it's one of the SMs most powerful tools to use with disciplining a scout. The pressure of not "keeping up with his friends" will often outweigh his desire to act up. I wish you luck. This story sounds very familiar to me. Let us know how it goes.

Congrats. Cool name. I uz2bnantelope. I've got 3 down and hope to wrap up by summer time.

It's kind of funny what twists of fate bring you to this point. Enjoy the time. We look forward to hearing from you.

Great point about learning from those who have walked the trail before you. There are some real trailblazers here! But be careful, some cut across the switchbacks.

Welcome! We look forward to getting to know you.

Go ahead and break them into patrols. When I was a young scout, we started a troop with 4 1st year scouts and one older scout. We had two patrols (of two boys each) and one SPL. Our troop started two years ago with 9 boys. We had one patrol of 5 and one of 4. We did not have an SPL during that first year. So, it can be done, even with small numbers.

Like Bob, I've had my uniform pants for ages. I think about 8 years now. The only problem is that they have gotten a few stains on them. Therefore, I bought a new pair of pants. But this time, I bought the dress slacks. They fit much nicer and look great. I still plan to wear my old ones for outings, service projects or anywhere that may get messy. My slacks will be for meetings and more "indoor" occasions. I do hate the pockets, though. Can't we just have real cargo pockets?

Congrats on the business, and welcome back. I know we've had our differences, but you do bring good knowledge to the forum. (Hopefully we'll see a kinder, gentler BW - but who knows). Welcome back.

Merit Badge worksheets are another good tool for verifying that the work is done. www.meritbadge.com has Merit Badge worksheets for just about every merit badge. SWMBO is a Family LIfe MB counselor. She gives the scout a copy of the worksheet and expects him to return it to her with write-ups on the projects and the chores. I don't think she asks for parent signoff, but trusts the scouts to be honest.