EagleInKY

Sorry if I hit a nerve Scoutnut. I shouldn't have used the term "bad child". He's not a bad child, but he is exhibiting bad behavior. And, medical condition or not, you cannot allow it to ruin the entire group. While I am certainly willing to work with a child's special needs, you can't tailor the program around him.

Back in my Cubbing days, we gave the parents an information packet. I believe it was just a two-sided newsletter format. Here's some of the contents: - It described what dens are and how they fit into the pack. - It talked about the den leader and the need for parents to be involved. - It gave the fee structure and what comprised those fees. - It highlighted some of the key events. - When den meetings and pack meetings were held. - What they needed for their uniform. And, it talked about the value of scouting and how they were embarking on a great journey with their son.

As for your second questions. This is primarily the job of the ASPL. He is responsible for making sure these guys have the tools they need to do their jobs. However, when appropriate, it's good to pair them up with their counterpart on the committee. For example, the scribe needs to work with the treasurer to turn in dues and the quartermaster needs to get equipment needs to the equipment coordinator. But you need to make sure that the adults do not try to take over the work for the kids. I'll give you a good example. We've had challenges keeping dues and activity fees straight. As we've grown, it's grown into a bigger problem. The treasurer came up with an idea to use individual envelopes for each boy with the details of what they were paying for on the outside. She helped put it together and gave it over to the scribe to carry out. Now it's his responsibility, but he's learned something about staying organized in the process.

Committee meetings, YES. Ours meets just about every month. It takes place while patrols are having patrol meetings. It's usually about an hour. Typical agenda: - Starts with the SPL reviewing the activities coming up over the next couple of months, and he takes questions regarding any details. (Personally, I'd like to get the committee less into this detail, but they are parents and it's hard for them to resist). - Financial Statement from treasurer. - Advancement status. In particular, we project when we'll be needing to schedule BORs. - Other items (fund raisers, service projects, equipment needs, etc.) - Any issues? (concerns re: troop, etc.) We have about a dozen registered committee members. SM and ASMs are encouraged to be there. Any parent is invited to attend. We have a very high participation rate (probably 80% of families come).

While I agree philisophically with Semperdude, I think that you must be practical about this. If you allow a bad child to run off the rest of the group (be it a den, patrol or troop), have you been successful? Do you even have a den, patrol or troop any more? No, you have to set limits. I do not see it any different than a scout who physically abuses other boys. If the child cannot act within the boundaries, then you have to eventually let him go. Usually, there is more than one pack in the area, they can give it a try with them. Don't allow him to run off the entire group. Of course, you have to give him a chance. Work with the mom, have her try different medications. Get ideas from his doctor or school counselor on what works for him. But if those things don't work, take the next step.

To each his own... I'm not a fan of it, but I've seen it work. My dad didn't threaten me with it, but he's had parents in his troop do so successfully. The argument for it is that the maturity gained in earning the Eagle rank will help make the lad a better, safer, more mature driver.

Welcome to the forums. Wish I were there with you! I can't wait to get to Hawaii, our family is planning a trip there next year.

Our ticket counselor told us that it was recommended that you do the beading in front of the group that was most impacted by your ticket. In other words, if your tickets were around improving operations in your pack, then you should do it in front of them. If it was for the district, a Roundtable would be appropriate. I don't know about the song, maybe Cub Scouts would think it's cute.

1024 x 768 on everything.

The two we encourage early are Swimming & First Aid. We recommend swimming because so much of scouting is done on and around the water, it's good for the guys to get those skills (and for us to know their limits). First Aid because it is something that can be put to use anytime. With that said, these aren't required and others are not prohibited, it's just two that we encourage them to work on.

Great post Bob. Prairie's distorted view of both US and BSA history is scary, but all too reflective of some on the left who bash anything that is considered traditional or American. In PS's world, Americans value slavery, polution and wife-beating. I'm not sure what university he graduated from, but if he learned it there, his history teacher should be fired. These aren't values, these are sad memories of a past that came about due to the freedom given to a very diverse group of people. Many of whom fled persecution in their home countries. Slavery wasn't a "value". In fact, I remember a big war that ensued over it. And, guess what, the good guys won. The time of slavery makes up only about 1/3 of our history as a nation. And, as time goes on, it becomes a much smaller piece of it. The same goes for every other kind of oppression. Over time, the good guys win, and freedom comes to more people. So what are our values? Freedom, liberty, pursuit of happiness... that people are endowed by their Creator with certain inaliable rights... that all men are created equal... These are values. Do we always live by them? No, unfortunately. But we can always strive to meet them. Rewriting history won't change this.

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your support of Scouting and for the tremendous example you and your husband set for our kids. We appreciate the sacrifice you make, serving overseas for the cause of freedom.

The CM said he would rather replace a leader,than lose 2-3 scouts. Your CM has it backwards. As much as I'd hate to lose anyone, I would rather lose 2-3 scouts than one good leader (which, I am assuming you are). The reason... simple. From what I've seen, most units are lucky to have one good leader for every 4-8 boys. Assuming a ratio like that, it's hurt 4-6 boys more than the 2-3 that leave. And besides, at this young age, there are plenty of boys still to come into Cub Scouting. But, if there is no leader there for them, they won't come. Chances are, this complainer will have problems with the next leader and end up leaving anyway. Assuming you are the good leader that I think you are, then I strongly encourage you to stay. And, btw, it's not the CM's decision.

I would strongly encourage you to try and stick together. My local evidence strongly indicates that boys who cross over together are far more likely to stick with it longer. I did some detailed analysis a few years ago when I was CM. I found that somewhere upwards of 75% (maybe as high as 90%) of boys from our pack were dropping out in the first year. I believe it was because our guys were crossing over to 4 or 5 different troops. On average, no more than 2 boys from a graduating group of Web IIs were crossing over to the same troop. They would go in as virtual strangers. As soon as one got discouraged, he would drop out, leaving the other one alone. He would usually drop out soon after. Since starting a troop and strongly encouraging crossing over to it, we've had a total of 26 crossovers (17 through last year, 9 last month). Of those 17, 16 are still in scouts, and, although 3 have moved to other troops, I consider that overwhelming evidence that dens who stay together are more likely to stick with it. Also, I don't think the problem with dropping out was program related. The troops in the area have strong programs, although they vary in how they apply the methods. The three that have transferred moved to programs that better fit their interest/personality.

Here's a related thread: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=84690#id_86378

I agree with wingnut, it's not the problem of this couple, the problem is with the other parents who aren't willing to go.

Nuts - I'm sorry to hear you're having to go through this. Unfortunately, when someone steps up to lead, there is always someone that will try to knock them down. Let me first encourage you to not stoop to their level. I've been thinking about how to approach this. I've had a similar situation recently, and have learned a few things (the hard way). While I agree in the "you can't please all of the people" POV, you do want to make sure you're not doing anything blatent that is effecting more than a couple of people. Here's what I'd possibly do. Very soon you'll be at the end of the year. Have a fun year-end blow-out. A pizza party or a picnic would be great. Ask everyone to come, including both parents. While the kids are having fun, say a few words to the parents. Make it very positive, thank them for participating with scouts this year and talk about some of the fun things ahead for them as Wolves, Bears and even Webelos. Then, and this is the good part, tell them that you are planning on continuing to lead, but are always looking for ideas and help, and that you are willing to share the leadership burden. These kids are great, but it's a big job for one person. Make this offer very genuine and positive. What you've done is put the burden on them. If they still leave, then at least you've made the offer. The other parents will see that as well. (Also, when you say this to them, look them eye-to-eye. You'll probably figure out who talked to the CM.)

C) None of the above.

I agree with everything said thus far (including me, of course ). I think a lot of it depends upon two factors. First is the location. Is it private or public? What's the terrain like? Are the boys and adults familiar with it? Second is the maturity level of the boys. Are they mature enough to handle this? If not, I would go with the minimum of two adults per patrol. I still like having a central HQ, however. Where are the senior leaders in all this (SPL, ASPL)? Are they participating with a patrol, or can they help provide the leadership needed? Not that they can subsitute for adults, but they can help coordinate things from a central point. I remember playing a game similar back when I was a very young scout. We had "base camps" (or flags if you prefer) a great distance apart. Every boy carried a "chip" or "totem". If you were caught by the other team, you had to give them your chip. You then could not do anything (capture someone or their camp) until you went back to your basecamp to get another chip. Good "scouts" would track you back to your basecamp to capture your camp. I seem to remember having fun, but it taking forever to play (often with nobody ever capturing a "camp").

Okay, I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. But, I think I have a pretty good grasp of the YPT rules. So let's break this down. First, two deep leadership applies only to outings, which this fits that bill. But, two-deep leadership does not require two adults to be present at all times (even though it's a good idea). The rule that you have to worry about coming into play is the "no 1-on-1 contact". I could imagine, during this type of activity, it would be very easy for an adult to end up 1-on-1 with a boy (other than his son) somewhere out in the woods or at their basecamp. Thus, I see a concern. Second, patrol campouts are permitted to take place without adults with the SM permission. These provide a great opportunity for boys to learn self-reliance and about what goes into planning and executing an activity. I don't think this would qualify as a patrol activity, since multiple patrols are planning on participating on Saturday. Off hand, this is what I would recommend. The adult leaders should set up a HQ camp. This can be at the starting point of the hike, somewhere in the middle, or wherever you choose. The game doesn't take place here. It's a place to go in case of emergency, or if the boys need an adult for some reason. The adults should hang out there during the day. If they want to wander out in the woods, they should do so as a group, avoiding the potential 1-on-1 situation. This sounds like a neat concept. Are you doing it on someone's private property? Has any other troops done anything like it?(This message has been edited by EagleInKY)

Hunt - I agree. We try to do this 2 or 3 times a year. On a campout, we'll get with the local ranger to find out what needs to be done in the area. They're always willing to take help. Typically it's clearing a trail, trimming back trees or picking up trash. It's a great way to give back, and it gives the scouts plenty of opportunities to get service projects.

Well put Barry. I agree with your logic.

Sad news here in our Council today. The radio reported that Robert Weber was an Eagle Scout and Scoutmaster. His wife is an active scouter and he has three sons (a Cub Scout and two Boy Scouts). May your prayers be with his family and his troop. Local Scout Leader Dies In Unusual Accident Victim Broke Neck Trying To Help Save Young Man A local scout leader was killed while trying to save a young man's life. Rob Weber, 44, of Shepherdsville, died Monday after he stopped to help an 18-year-old man whose car crashed into a pond, WLKY NewsChannel 32 reported. The tragedy took place on the U.S. 50 bridge near Washington. Friends said Weber was on his way to work when he was flagged down by two teenagers who told him their friend was stuck in a car that was sinking in water. It's believed Weber either tripped or jumped over the bridge, not realizing how far off the ground he was, WLKY reported. The coroner's office in Daviess County, where Weber died, said he broke his neck. Weber was scout master of Troop 376 in Okolona. http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/news/4349758/detail.html Another story: 'Good Samaritan' leaps from bridge to aid vehicle, dies Bullitt man tried to reach car in pond WASHINGTON, Ind. -- A Shepherdsville, Ky., man who stopped after a car crashed into a pond early yesterday died when he jumped from a bridge in an attempt to reach the submerged automobile. The man hit the ground instead of the water, Daviess County Sheriff's Deputy Bill Dougherty said. Daviess County Coroner Linden Cullen identified the man as Robert G. Weber, 44. Authorities think Weber either thought there was water under the U.S. 50 bridge where he jumped or did not realize how high he was. Cullen said Weber plunged 18 feet and died of internal injuries. "He was a good Samaritan because he was trying to help," Cullen said. Indiana conservation officers later found the body of the other vehicle's driver in the overflow pond near the U.S. 50 bridge over the White River at the Daviess-Knox county line in southwestern Indiana. Cullen identified him as Corey S. Willis, 18, of nearby Petersburg, Ind. Daviess County Sheriff's Detective Ron Morgan said the submerged car's two passengers escaped after it went off the highway about 5 a.m. They told police that the three of them were heading to Vincennes for breakfast when the car sailed off the road, possibly because the driver fell asleep. Dougherty said the car traveled 700 feet in the grassy median before flying off an embankment and into a pond that catches the river's overflow. http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050405/NEWS02/504050364/1025(This message has been edited by EagleInKY)

I'm not a trekkie, but I'll welcome you here anyway. Hope you enjoy your time here.

Let me tell you a quick story about a fast advancing young lad. He made Tenderfoot in about 2 months, Second Class probably 4 months later, another 6 months and he was First Class (can you say FC/FY?). About six months later, he makes Star. Boy, is this kid on the move. He slows down a bit, and makes Life about 18 months later. But Eagle is just around the corner.... 2+ years later. Did this boy disappear for a while? No. Was he inactive? No. Did anyone artificially hold him back? I don't think so. Why did it take him so long? Other interests, he wanted to work at his own pace, lots of things. How do I know? It was me, about 25 years ago! The point is, don't worry about the speed of early advancement. I don't think it is a predictor of the speed of the Star-Life-Eagle advancement. Help them set their goals and give them the opportunity to learn, explore and make their own way. It will mean much more to them.