EagleInKY

northernlights - Just curious, have you run into any issues with council or national on this? The reason I ask, I know of a troop that was doing this. They have over 100 scouts and ran a top-notch summer camp. They staffed it primarily from their own parents and had all the critical skills filled (lifeguard, doctors, EMTS, etc.). National came down and said they had to have a camp director and aquatics director national certified. They looked at hiring the council's directors, but was unable to make it work. In the end, they ended up having to send them to NCS to get certification. Did you all run into this?

"In our troop all we ask is that the boy make scouting a priority sometimes." This is exactly what we ask of our parents. We ask that they try to bring a balance to it. If it's an important tournament vs. a regular campout, then go for the sport. If it's a regular game vs. a "special" campout (lots of advancement opportunities or special adventure), then go with scouts. Demonstrate to your son that scouts is of equal importance. If scouts always takes a backseat, he'll figure out where it is in your priorities.

So, let's say you go with this proposal and troops cannot camp on council property during the weekend of a district event. Two potential outcomes: (1) Troops start attending district events or (2) More likely, troops decide to start attending other council's property or private property. So, you invoke a new rule, troops are not granted tour permits for short-term camps during a district event if they are not attending said event. So, again you have two potential outcomes (1) Troops start attending the events, or (2) more likely, troops shift their campouts one week to avoid the conflict. So, now you invoke a 7 day buffer on the tour permit ban. Again, two potential outcomes (1) troops start attending the blasted event or (2) you kill the unit program and the boy leadership model. Life is about choices. Choose wisely.

How'd it go with her? I saw her out at CCC last weekend, they were having their first staff training. I know she's still trying to fill some positions.

Chief - I still reflect on my three years of summer camp as three of the best summers of my life. Those combined with my Philmont trips are truly the funnest experiences of my scouting career, and probably did more to prepare me for "real life". I say "go for it" if you can. Is this at CCC? If so, look me up in Week 3.

It's been a while since I've seen it, but I think it is in the Fast Start training where it shows the SM and SPL both attending a troop committee meeting. Our SPL attends for a portion of the meeting - while we talk about upcoming events. He reviews what is happening over the next 2-3 months. He also attends annually for the presentation of the annual plan. The good part of him attending is that he gets to hear firsthand some of the questions and concerns that come up (cost, safety, timing, purpose, etc.). It helps him in preparation for future events to avoid some of those concerns.

Welceme to the forum from the state next door.

I'm with Torveaux on questioning this. I've been around scouting for more decades than I want to admit, and I have run across a few scoutmasters ("few" meaning "less than five") that put their own son's interest ahead of others. A much greater number not only require their son to stand on their own, but are often harder on their son than they are with others. The thought that Hula has run across two selfish SMs in a role makes me scratch my head and have a little doubt. On the other hand, I have run across many parents who think their son is being picked on when things don't go their way. Often, they are not aware of the reasons that a SM may deny an SM conference, why a boy doesn't get the POR he wants, why a MB counselor doesn't sign off, etc. They are usually hearing "Johnny's" side of the story. And Johnny can make it sound pretty unfair. Hula needs to talk to the SM and find out the truth. I have a feeling this will differ from what they have heard from their son.

Our troop puts together a recommended list of MBs by year. In other words, first year scouts are encouraged to choose from list 1. Second year scouts are encouraged to choose from list 1 & 2. We do this for years 1, 2, 3 and 4+. Scouts are not prohibited from taking specific MBs (unless camp rules or prerequisites exist). There are also a few MBs that we discourage taking a camp - the Cits and Communications being some of them. We discourage them for the same reaons. In our opinion, the camp counselors take some shortcuts. We approach it similar to Mike. As for #2, working on partials after camp, we assign an adult to be their MB counselor after camp. Usually, it's one of the adults that was at camp and saw what they did (and didn't) do. When the boy completes the partial, the new MB Counselor signs the blue card and the boy turns it in.

Wow, what a great series of posts. There's nothing about arbitrary policies, unit "requirements" or anything of the sort... just good common sense. I echo the sentiments of many of these postings. In my experience, I have seen three ways that a boy has made Eagle early. These three ways are: 1) The boy is truly a gifted, talented, motivated lad who loves scouting and thrives on success and advancement. He is a leader in his troop and advances rapidly through the ranks. 2) As Beaver indicated, the troop uses the Cub Scout "Do Your Best" approach and sign off a lot of things as a group. While you can get away with this on some of the early requirements (know the patrol name, give the yell, pitching a tent, etc.), it is dreadfully wrong to do it on Merit Badges and later requirements. 3) The troop is an Eagle Mill. I know of a troop that has a dozen or more merit badge classes going on every week during troop meetings. Boys, if they wish, can advance quickly just by putting their mind to it (and ignoring many other facets of scouting). While I am sure there are many of those in the first category, I see far too many in the 2nd and 3rd. Like Beaver, I am suspicious of any group that tracks along side of each other through Life in such a short time. It certainly smells like #2 or #3. But like OGE, I don't hold any of this against the scout. I see it as a reflection of the troop and the priorities of the adults that lead it. I wish more would focus on the total program and not just this one facet. So, let the parents do whatever they want. But don't make it troop "policy" one way or the other. Let the boys do what they want to do, and make sure you are offering a well-rounded BSA program. Good luck, John

Camp Covered Bridge ('75) Old Kentucky Home Council Camp McKee ('76-'81 as Scout, '82-'84 staff) Bluegrass Council Camp Crooked Creek ('03-'04) Lincoln Heritage Council

Welcome Ken. Glad to have another Eagle among us.

sassysmom - We've never met but we have some mutual friends. I know Rob's accident was largely caused by the factors of darkness and unfamiliarity of the area. He was simply a good guy trying to help and got caught unaware of all the factors. Truly, this could have happened to any of us. It brings back memories of a situation I was in. Several years ago I stopped to provide aid in a situation that turned out to be a murder in process. It could have easily turned out bad for me. I was lucky that the shooter's gun misfired and he ran away, otherwise he could have turned it on me next. When we stop to provide aid, there are always inherant risks. But that's what makes it a selfless act, isn't it? I hope the second guessing that went on here doesn't cause you great pain. We all need to be reminded to be careful when we find ourselves in these situations. There is always confusion about what is going on. Our adrenaline flows and mistakes happen. Rob is one of many fallen heroes in our Scouting brotherhood and will be missed by his friends and family. Our hearts go out to you and yours.

Congrats. An aardvark that used to be a beaver.... Darwin would be impressed. I used to be an Antelope.

Cub and Webs do not do temporary patches on their uniforms. Huh? FROM the uniform inspection sheet: RIGHT POCKET: Temporary insignia are not necessary in uniform inspection, but if worn, must be centered on the pocket.

One way to approach it is to describe the adult's role in each of the programs. I know your Wood Badge presentation is supposed to span the programs, so it would be a logical approach. For example: Tigers - This is easy, parents are required to participate as adult partners. This is a very involved role, attending every meeting (sometimes dragging, sometimes being dragged). Cubs - Very much a planning and doing role. Den leaders plan activities, crafts, games, etc. and coordinate the effort to get it done. Very much a hands-on role. Webelos - While still doing a lot of planning and execution, this is more of a coaching role. They're trying to get the boys to start to think for themselves. Boy Scouts - This is more of a coaching and mentoring role. Boy Scout leaders need to be able to teach and counsel, but stay out of the way. Much less execution and much more mentoring. Venturing - They're pretty much a chaperone here. These young men can do most of it themselves. You're there to provide transportation and make sure they stay safe and follow the rules. That's one approach. You could also highlight the fact that there are "contact" roles (like these described) and "non-contact" roles, such as committee and district roles. Some parents don't want to have a hands-on role, but would love to help with the administrative end. Tap into these resources as well.

"If I quit my job, I still expect to get my last paycheck. The company doesn't get to keep it. " True, and I would equate that to advancement. If a boy had earned the Star Rank, then he deserves it no matter what. Now, not to get into an payroll legal argument, but I'm pretty sure there are more comparable things you could equate this to. For example, if I leave before my Pension is vested, then I do not get any of it. If I have unspent money in a medical benefits spending account, you normally lose it as well. If you have "unofficial" comp time, then the same goes there too. So, while you do deserve and receive any pay for work completed, you do forfeit some things. As long as it is treated fairly for all, I see no issue with it.

Ditto the ditto.

Welcome to our virtual campfire.

Our district does it similar as TheScout's, only it is the District Advancement Committee that requests them.

We expect the full and complete uniform. We start by setting the example as adult leaders. Since most kids come in from Cubs with the tan shirt, we ask that they purchase the shorts now (within the first month or so) and then purchase the long pants in the fall. We have started a uniform closet, so we'll be building up our supplies over time. We encourage them to check ebay and thrift stores if they don't want to buy new. The troop provides troop numerals, patrol patches and neckerchiefs.

Ah, I've seen that too. It's been a while. There's a few ways of doing it. Here's what I remember. Start with your standard tri-pod lashing (sheer lashing with three poles). Now, the rest of it is going to be hard to describe (this is where you'd like to have that picture). The flagpole was loosely tied at the junction of the three poles. The bottom of the pole was suspended above the ground, about 1/2 way between the ground and the tripod lashing. Twine was used to tie three "guy lines" from the bottom of the flag pole at an upward angle to the three poles of the tripod. They were tied off on the tripod poles about 2/3 or so up the tripod. Does that make sense at all? It confuses me just to read it.

Google on flag pole lashing and you'll get plenty of hits. Essentially it's just connecting the poles with Shear (or Round) Lashings. You usually do two lashings per joint, to prevent bending. Three guy lines are tied with a clove hitch or two-half hitches to the pole near the top. They are staked to the ground and tied off with taut line hitches.

Maybe it's because it wouldn't really be "high adventure" if mom or dad could swoop in and save the day when the going gets tough. Just MHO.

Long, but well-written post Barry. I'm going to re-read it a few times and share it with my ASMs. As you know, we're venturing into our first year using an NSP. I'm looking forward to it. I'm sure we'll find problems with it as well, but I think it's better than just immediately mixing them in with the older scouts. I'll add my thoughts through the year as we progress.