EagleInKY

Welcome aboard. We look forward to getting to know you.

The QU award is not a farce, your District Executive is. Good point Semper dude. I do agree the QU award is quite watered down. Our pack received QU during several years of decline before I took over. They were barely meeting the minimum criteria. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a few of theirs were just "close enough" as well. But, when I took over, we used the QU guidelines as one of the tools in turning the program around. We strove to meet each of those objectives. In doing so, we turned it into a great pack. In fact, the best year we had was also the year we nailed every single QU requirement. Therefore, I'm a believer in using it as a guideline to help you build a solid program. If you truly complete the objectives, chances are you have a pretty good unit.

Welcome... and now you have that most prestigious title, "a member of the scouter.com community".

Welcome to our virtual roundtable. I hope you enjoy the snacks!

Robert, Good luck to you. I was in a similar (but not quite so bad) situation several years ago. You've gotten good advice, so I'll say very little. Get passionate about it. Get your thoughts together and then get your key folks together. Especially the registered leaders, but perhaps some other influencial parents as well. Sell them on what's going to happen. Be straight about what happened in the past. Make them excited about it! (Think like that Soccer coach who convinces you that soccer is going to change your son's life). Get them excited about the program ideas you have and the rest should follow (with good training and everything else that has been mentioned!). Good luck!

Welcome to the campfire. We look forward to getting to know you better.

No, I don't think there is any limit. I've seen dens that had 2 or 3 "co-leaders" because you couldn't depend on any of them from one week to the next (due to job, family, etc.). Another suggestion... does your pack need help in other areas? Maybe they need another committee member. You could possibly help out in some other ways, and still be there to help out the den when necessary.

No prescribed order. Some go chronologically, others by order of importance.

We did something similar. I think we called it a bobcat trail or bobcat challenge. We set up stations around the meeting place. The boys ran from station to station completing requirements. If they didn't get it, they came back and reviewed/performed it again. We actually did it a couple of nights, in order to complete signoffs and reinforce the skills. Repitition is such a key at that age.

Hunt, LOL. I wonder how many are two young to get that one. We have the challenge of where to do SCs as well. I usually take them to the back end of the fellowship hall (which isn't very large) and usually have a few minutes of private conversation. But, I've found as our troop has gotten bigger, that has gone out the window. The last SC I had was interupted four times. Mostly by new scouts or their parents, who aren't aware of the process yet. However, the last one was my wife. She didn't like it when I told her I'd talk to her in a moment. (Made for an interesting discussion at home).

Hey Semper, you're hitting awfully close to home. That's what my pack looks like (but I do pack it myself). My 40 year old eyes can't focus too well in the morning, so I need it arranged as neatly as possible! :-)

I don't send anything with him. It's his responsibility to pack for a campout.

We try to do like Carol, offer more than one activity. Cub needs to participate in at least one of them during the each month.

Welcome to the forums, from another member of the Eagle Class of '81.

#1 - No problem. IF someone asks, tell them you're family. #2/#3 - This can be a challenge. Some effective approaches are presented here. I've had the situation in public restrooms as well. I try to avoid it whenever possible. I like the fact that our CO has a "family bathroom" (private, one stall), I use that whenever possible. #4 - At our camp, latrines are visible and within throwing distance from the campsite, so we don't require buddy system. But at other camps, if the latrine is out of site or a greater distance, we always require the buddy system.

We go to the local Y Indoor pool at least twice a year. Once in the winter, just to mix things up a bit. The other time is coming up at the end of May. We'll have a lifeguard work with new scouts on strokes required for swimming test. Older guys who are taking lifesaving will practice for camp. Others just play in the free swim area.

We take a group photo in February on our uniform inspection night. But my favorite picture we take each year is at the end of summer camp. We get the guys in new (clean) camp t-shirts, with all the parents who came to camp and take a picture in front of the camp sign. It's always colorful and brings back memories of camp.

"The CC and the SM are very close." Of course they are... or at least they should be. For the good of the troop, these are two positions that need to able to work together. I'm close to my CC as well. However, he'll certainly bring concerns up to me when they arise. We were once critized for having a good relationship. I asked the people who brought the criticism up if they could point to one occasion where the CC ignored a concern because of this relationship. We haven't heard that criticism any more. "I did not want to report this to the CC for fear that the SM would hear and I would have repricussions." Reporting to council will have even more. "On earlier trips when a question of YP came up, the committee has said,"Well he's the SM, he knows what he is doing, and we trust his judgement" " Sounds like the committee needs YPT as well. "(he spent 6+ hours along with an ill scout in camp)" Again, sounds like a bad judgement call on the part of the SM. I called one of our adults on the carpet for a similar situation at SC a couple of years ago. To this day, he still disagrees with me, but he hasn't done it again.

Ditto Ed & Bob. The SM will get the message.

It seems to me that you are getting interpersonal problems & YP issues intertwined. In doing so, you lose some credibility. I believe it would be better for you to approach them as two seperate issues. As for the money situation, you have done your part. You may not be aware of what has gone on behind the scenes. This is really an issue for the Troop Treasurer, a committee position. The SM had no reason to come down on you for it, perhaps it just rubbed a raw nerve. As for the YP issue, let me first state that I try to be very strict in my interpretation of the policy. However, I don't run and report every gray-area violation to council. To do so would result in an appearance of "crying wolf". Also, some councils take these issues more seriously than others, and you don't want to ruin the career of a good scoutmaster, if no harm was intended. While the "no 1-on-1 contact" rule seems very straightforward, I've had disagreements with other scouters on its interpretation. This is why I am reluctant to go straight to council. On one extreme, I've heard some say that anywhere in the meeting place is okay, since all of the doors are unlocked and someone could walk in any time. On the other extreme, I've heard it said that if you turn the corner in a hallway and the people 10 feet away can't see you then you are in violation. Obviously, I believe the accurate interpretation is somewhere in between. I would approach it like this. Go to the Troop Committee Chairman. (Take a parent if you prefer.) Tell him what happened and that you have observed this type of YP mistake in the past. Ask him to (1) report it to council if he knows it is a repeat violation; or (2) discuss the issue with the SM and review YP procedures. If the SM doesn't agree that there is an issue, offer to meet with them (CC & SM) to explain your POV. Whatever the case, tell the CC that you will report future violations directly to council. I like this approach for several reasons. First, you have taken responsibilty to report it to a person of higher authority. Second, you have left open the door for the SM to correct his behavior if it is an honest mistake. Third, you have made it known that future situations will not be overlooked and will be reported directly to council. This puts the pressure on the CC to do his job.(This message has been edited by EagleInKY)

I don't know of any "policy" that requires it. If you are not comfortable with it, then do it discretely. Have the TG present it to you over lunch or at your house, with your husband and anyone else you desire (or no one else).

KS is correct, the troop can set its guidelines. This should be done by the PLC. Ours are fairly simple - Star Scout (which was waived the first two years of the troop), previous experience in the PLC, and SM approval (approval to be on the ballot, not of the election itself).

Welcome Rob. We're often looking for the youth perspective on many of these topics, we look forward to hearing more from you.

Trevorum - Boy led to the extreme is when the adult leaders do not do what they are trained to do to mentor, instruct and guide the boy leaders of the troop. Perhaps you've never run into one, but they often border on utter chaos. And, when you ask why they are doing something that may not be appropriate, the answer is always "it's what the boys wanted to do". For example, this troop still does lazer tag and paintball, because the boys want to. Now, I'm not going to debate the pros and cons of that particular rule, but it is a rule, nevertheless.

We started a new troop 2 years ago. Our reasons were similar. We had a loose affiliation with one troop (extreme boy-lead), and about 1/3 of our graduating Webelos went that way. About 1/3 went to a mega-troop (Eagle Mill, lots of adult involvement). The others scattered to other troops in the area. We found that most of our kids were dropping out in the first year of Boy Scouts. We decided to start the troop in order to reverse that trend. The big reasons for doing it at the time: - We had a strong set of leaders who had rebuilt the pack were approaching Boy Scout age. - There were no strong ties existed to any particular troop. - Our new sponsoring institution was interested in starting a troop. Our reasons have proven to be right for the most part. Although things have not played out 100% according to what I expected. And, there have been bumps along the way. As for the strain on the community/scouts, I can't really answer that for you. Our area has a large # of scout troops. They cater to different interests, needs, faiths and styles. If you can diferentiate yourself and provide a relevant, quality scouting program, then there shouldn't be a problem. If starting the troop puts a strain on those units not following the methods correctly, maybe you will either (1) force them to close or (2) force them to change. We've noticed this happening with the "extreme" boy-lead unit in our area. Things to do: - Get alignment with the leaders and key parents coming up over the next 2-3 years. - Secure a sponsor. - Get trained. Start attending BS leader training now. Get as many parents/leaders to participate as possible. - Get your parents committed to making the troop work. - Get finances aligned. Maybe you (through your sponsor) can get some items/money donated. Your new troop will not be perfectly boy-lead from the beginning. It will take a lot of adult leadership to get it going. But as long as you are working toward an end-goal of boy-leadership, you will be okay.