EagleInKY

Welcome Stephen. Let me also encourage you to stick with this goal. It's something you'll never get another chance at. And, it will stay with you forever. I'm as proud to be an Eagle today as I was 24 years ago. And, yes, I was 17 when I received it as well.

While I agree with the concept that the scout oath and law is the cornerstone of our discipline policy, you do need a way to spell out the consequences. Otherwise, you have no way of distinguishing between the scout that doesn't perform his water duty and the scout that pulls a knife on another scout. Both are violations of the scout law, but the consequences of them are far different. While the W.I.S.E. information is useful, I take issue with it in this case. I do not believe discipline is within the realm of responsibility of the PLC. Steps 1 and 2 are okay, but that's as far as the scouts should be involved. From that point on it becomes an issue for the Scoutmaster. Our "policy" (we don't use that word) is the famous three strikes approach. Any significant violation of the scout oath or law, and the scout suffers the appropriate consequences. The first event, the parent gets a phone call, typically after the event. On the second occasion, the parent gets a phone call during the event and is asked to come take their son home. On the third occasion, the scout is asked to leave the troop. Of course, there are potential violations that may be significant enough to remove a scout after one event. Unfortunately, I had to ask a young man to leave our troop this past year. It was a hard thing to do. He had been sitting with two strikes and checked his swing about a dozen times. Finally, one night he did not.

Roughriders, bandana/bananna??? This is PC going way too far. I've heard that the general rules were against "potty jokes" (important papers, etc.), cross-dressing, poking fun at an individual (involuntarily), or significant violence. Our camp supposedly inforces those rules, but this year at camp I counted two potty jokes, two involving cross-dressing, four examples of picking on someone from the audience and several with some amounts of violence (including roughriders). If they are banning any skits here, I'd hate to see what isn't getting through. (BTW, we had at least two parents offended by some of the skits on parent's night). One of them left early. I've found that many of the "old favorites" can be re-written to make it unoffensive. Also, I believe much of the offensiveness occurs in words that don't need to be used (count how many times "frickin" is used at the next campfire). Also, this is a sidenote.... but I've heard it referenced that some skits are appropriate for campfires where there are no visitors, but not appropriate for "family night". I think this is a gray area that causes confusion in the mind of a twelve year old. Just my humble opinion.

Well, if my course was any indiciation, a significant number of the attendees are overweight, close to 40 or over, any many had little outdoor experience. I think the Class 3 gives them a little more info that may be needed in case of emergency. And yes, there are a few strenuous activities, although not anything more severe than you would find in your own yardwork.

I agree that it's a leaky pipeline, and I agree with Bob's assessments of where the biggest issues are. I also like Madkins synopsis. He brings up some great points. But, the reality is, every organization has leaks. Churches, sports, even companies, have leaks. When my son decided to not do coach pitch after tee-ball, I don't think a bunch of coaches got together and were concerned about the leaky pipeline. The reality is that some kids take to an activity and others do not. I agree that a better program, better trained leaders, and better transition will reduce the leakage. A good Den Chief can help, but it's no gaurantee. This year we had an involved Den Chief (maybe not the best, but he seemed to do okay). We only got 8 of 11 Web IIs (compared to 6 of 6 and 9 of 9 the previous two years without Den Chiefs). I'd like to see a much tighter relationship with the Web leaders and the troop leaders. They should be communicating and walking hand-in-hand, especially during those last six months. If they coordinate lots of activities together, wouldn't it seem less of a "drop/add" and more of a "next step". Not sure, but any best practices would be great.

My district sounds like yours. I know of other districts in our council that follows the district mb list approach, and folks there seem to like it. Of course, they have a very active, dedicated District Advancement Chairman who coordinates it. Our district's excuse is that we are geographically dispersed, as compared to the districts in the city. There is some validity to that. You can drive well over an hour from one side of the district to the other. But I think our district's real issue is that the DAC (who I really do like), is part of a mega-troop that has all the resources it needs. They don't need a MBC list, so why should anyone else?

Hey Barry. We'll keep Kyle in our prayers. I hope he makes it home safely soon. Love the comment about If its not raining, we arent camping. Our troop says the same thing. We've thought about nicknaming ourselves the Mighty Ducks, since we always seem to have to waddle in the rain.

We have one adult leader who is partially handicapped and doesn't get around camp too easily. He usually hangs out in the campsite most of the day. He's not there all week, but when he's there I know the campsite is usually covered. When he's not there, I or another adult will typically swing by between sessions to check on things. Typically, most of our boys are in sessions or doing other things instead of hanging out in the campsite.

We also encourage the boys to keep the buddy system in mind when scheduling their sessions. We insist that first year scouts always have a buddy, no matter what. We find that most scouts, especially younger ones, will sacrifice their personal MB preference in order to be with their friend. So you'll see conversations like "I'll take nature with you if you take sports with me". I think that's great. Where it doesn't work out and a scout is in a class alone, we make sure he knows where to pick his buddy back up. Usually, it works out where there is someone else in the same area (Nature lodge, scoutcraft, etc.) that he can "ride along with". Adults don't follow the buddy system, but some of them should.

There's going to be a tie into council websites as well (like YPT for example), so that there can be local options. Also, I think some proceeds may come back to the councils... ??? not sure about that. But I understand that you're going to have to come through your council website.

Great question CNY! I (and I'm sure others) would love to see what you write. Maybe you can post it when you're done? Leadership - You hit that one. Most of the boy's early leadership experiences are going to be in the patrol environment. The patrol method is where he demonstrates the skills necessary for positions of greater responsibility, such as SPL, ASPL, Troop Guide or Den Chief. Outdoor Program - This is where the Patrol method comes alive! In meetings and games, the patrol method has only limited success. But in the outdoors, when these guys live, cook, eat, sleep, breathe, together as a patrol... that is where they really see it in action. Advancement - Loose ties in the early ranks, pointing the scout at recognizing their patrol. Personally, I'd like to see a little more emphasis - such as a requirement to participate in a patrol activity. Ideals - Some loose ties here as well. Boys get exposure to holding each other accountable first in the patrol setting. A PL has to make sure his patrol members pull their load. They also have to deal with behavior issues often at a patrol level first. Personal Growth, is more an outcome of a great patrol program. A scout will experience growth in maturity, dedication to others and teamwork by working in an effective patrol setting. Uniform, in my opinion, is part of all aspects of scouting. The patrol working together in uniform, seeing themselves as a team more than a group of individuals, is key. That patrol emblem on the sleeve identifies them with the group. Association with adults doesn't apply as well since the patrol method is primarily about the boys.

KS - I certainly agree with you. I'm sure we all have a few people in our group that we know are not 100% reliable. We learn to never rely on their attendance. I had one family that dropped the ball on me twice and another leader once. After going 0 for 3 with us, we totally avoided their involvement.

Welcome to the forums Dan. And have fun at the Jamboree.

Smokey - Welcome to the campfire. We'll make sure to put it out if we ever leave. But luckily, someone always seems to be here to tend the fire. Good luck on the new troop. I was in your shoes a little over two years ago. It's been great fun and a learning experience. No matter how much you know, you can always learn more. There are bumps, and I've got a few bruises to show for it. But in the end, it's worth it.

There's a couple of ways to approach this. One method we use is the week before summer camp, the ASM that serves as "medical officer" (he's a former EMT) talks to each boy. He asks them if they take any medicine on a regular basis. He also has their medical forms for camp as a reference. If he finds out they do, he gives them a big ziplock bag and tells them that they need to bring them in their original containers to camp on Sunday. The parents are also told that if we find out the child needs meds and doesn't have them, they have two choices - bring them to camp or take him home. As for notification to other leaders, I try to handle it carefully and confidentially. The adults that are at camp for the week usually huddle the first day of camp. If there is anything they need to be aware of, we share it with them at that time.

Wow Juris. So, what you are saying is, throw away whatever YOU don't like in the BSA program and do it YOUR way and he will be successful. Gee, I've never heard that one before. We'll just go ahead and rename it JSA (Juris' Scouts of America) while we're at it. There are many strong troops out there that don't operate according to the program. Yours may be one of them. But that doesn't mean you should come into this forum with that kind of attitude. It's not bragging, it's just plain arrogance.

Sorry Ed, I posted on top of you. I've never heard that before. Do you know where it's documented?

"Now, regarding clothing banks that people have mentioned. I don't mean to sound mean, but why would a boy want to get rid of his uniform (Cub Scout and/or Boy Scout) with all of his badges and/or patches that he worked so hard to earn? " How about teaching the boy about being thrifty. You know, conserving our resources and getting the most out of what we have. Also, being kind, especially to those who can't afford a new uniform. These are good traits as well. When I was in scouts I think I went through 3 or 4 uniforms. I still have the last one, but haven't looked at it in years. I say take off the patches and keep them as souvenirs. Turn the shirts in so others can benefit. Keep that last one, if you really want a memoir.

To the best of my understanding, yes. The "OR" aspect of the Eagle merit badges apply to each rank. Anyone ever heard different?

I think Beav nailed the spirit of the rule when looking at the old requirement. I think the idea is to have the scout hike, set up a campsite, then hike out the next day. The wording allows for some wiggle room, perhaps he could hike at least 4 miles, set up camp, and then have vehicles to take them out.

I have a frustrating problem with just a few families. It has to do with them making commitments for activities. We normally try to get a commitment to an activity by the troop meeting two weeks prior to an event (usually it's just under two weeks since our meetings are on Mondays). For most people this isn't a problem. But for some, it seems to be a major inconvenience. We have numbers changing up until the day before and sometimes the day of an event. It gets quite frustrating and it's difficult to plan food, transportation and other logistics. When it's work related, I understand. We have some dads who are pilots and are often on call. I can accept that. But what frustrates me are the ones who are waiting to find out if something more important is going to take place. Usually it's a sports event, but sometimes its other things as well. It's like they're saying "Scouts is most important as long as (fill in the blank) doesn't get in the way". Do you battle this? For me it's only with a couple of families, and I've tried talking to them about it. They think I'm from another planet when I ask them to commit one way or another.

Conducting activities like this once or twice a year would certainly work on building self-reliance (a great trait that ties into several points of the Scout Law). But, doing it all the time negates one of the most powerful methods in scouting - the Patrol Method. You need this ASM understand that there are multiple facets of the system. He obviously has a bias toward one area of interest.

These are really questions for the MB counselor. But, imho, the scout should get credit for all days camped since he joined scouting. I haven't read the other requirement in enough detail to give you a fair answer.

This is a topic giving me heartburn this week as well. The first two years of existance, we had 100% participation 9 of 9 (w/4 adults) and 16 of 16 (with 9 adults). We had a great experience both years. This year we have 21 boys. Only 17 are going to camp. One of the four is our oldest scout who has a family conflict. Personally, I don't care for the excuse, but mom overruled and said he had to go. The other three are first year scouts. Only one has a valid excuse in my opinion. The other two are struggling to stay active due to conflicting priorities. I doubt if they'll make it for the long run unless something changes. But those of us who are going are going to have a great time. 7 adults are going for the week, 3 more are coming up for part of the time. I just feel bad for the three new scouts that won't have the positive experience of their first year of scout camp.

I like the "feeding the dogs" analogy. We need to provide a program with lots of opportunities. We average 85%-90% participation, so you figure that some kids are at 100% and a few are around 50%, the rest are around 90%. That means they are probably making 10 of 12 activities a year. That seems like a reasonable amount. For kids that aren't involved in the "sport of the month", scouting provides a great opportunity to lead an active lifestyle with lots of different experiences. For those heavily involved in sports, I can see where they view scouting as a distraction.