EagleInKY

I first heard about it from a troop in another district. I did some searching online and found very little information. I spoke to that troop again and they said they got it from their District Training person. So I called ours, and he didn't have a clue. Then I found out (I think from this forum) that it was available through the scoutstuff catalog. I ordered it myself. It comes with a ready-made curriculum. But, like JLT, I tailored it for our troop. I believe I found some material online, if I can locate the links, I'll post them here. Edited part: https://scoutnet.scouting.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=BOOKS_LIT&c3=LDRS_TRAINING&c4=&LV=3&item=33643(This message has been edited by EagleInKY)

They should be able to accommodate you. An associate of mine who has a significant walking disbility was able to successfully take the course.

Amen Cliffie! I like your suggestion about the military offering to do it for any group willing to meet the requirements. I don't see any others lining up at the door, do you?

Probably around your 5-6 hour limit - Camp Crooked Creek (Lincoln Heritage Council, KY) http://www.campcrookedcreek.com Camp Roy C. Manchester (Shawnee Trails Council, Kentucky). http://www.geocities.com/camprcm/

Troop Committee Challenge is - I believe - a vastly underutilized training tool. It helps committee members (and SM/ASMs) understand the role of the committee by talking about the different functions and their responsibilities. It ends up with a board game, where you are given scenarios like "I need to organize a BOR" or "We need five new tents" and you discuss whose responsibility it is. Our committee went through it last fall (our troop was about 18 months old at the time). It was a worthwhile experience. We had lots of good discussion.

Welcome to the forum. We look forward to learning from your experience.

Barry - I think the two reasons that some do this are security and safety. Security - Some camps, regretably, have had problems with theft from campsites. Keeping an adult present reduces that risk. While we haven't had much of that problem here, I am aware of a few camps that encourage you to leave someone in camp for that reason. In fact, I know of one camp that used to have a seperate meal serving for the people who stayed in the campsite. Safety - As some mentioned, if a scout has an issue, he's likely to return to his troop campsite. As for the YP issue. First, in most cases, a boy should have a buddy with him. Second, it shouldn't be an issue as long as they remain out in the open. At our camp, the campsites are easily visible from one another. Plus, boys and leaders are always walking by on their way to various program areas. So, I don't see an issue with one adult and one boy being in the campsite together, as long as they are out in the open. (Now, if your campsite is very secluded, there may be a concern).

Cmon, I think it's pretty obvious that this jacket wasn't of a religious nature. ASM59 said "out of respect for all, I will not post what was written on the jacket". I'm assuming it was something pretty foul, or he would have been more specific.

Yeah, I'm sure I'm harder on my own son. Part of this is because I know he's sharp and a RGK (really good kid). He's now the SPL, which brings some unique challenges, but also some great blessings. He and I work together more now than ever before. I'm fortunate that I don't have to call him down very often for behavior issues. And, when I do, it just takes "that look". So, where I may have to have a talk with some other boys, he knows exactly what I mean without me saying a word! I think where I'm harder on him is more in the post-activity analysis. I expect him to pull off everything flawlessly... after all, he's my son. :-) So I'll be critical of things that I probably would have let slide with other SPLs. Is it fair? Probably not. But it's the standard I hold him (and myself) to.

Hey, welcome back into scouting and welcome to our campfire. We look forward to sharing coffee and stories with you.

I think disciplinary action should go through the Scoutmaster, instead of directly from the camp staff. But, if the SM refuses to do anything (sounds like he may have already been guilty of looking the other way), then camp staff should have the right to deal with it. I believe that on our what to bring/what not to bring sheet from camp it states "clothing with inappropriate material" listed in the "what not to bring" section.

If the DAC says you should do it, then I definitely would. Just as in our case, we're doing what the DAC instructed us to do.

Actually, Torveaux, most of the ones who complain are the last ones you'd want to be involved in the leadership of your troop. The complainers I've run across share the same traits. (1) Socially immature sons who do not interact well with others. Sometimes the problem is medical, while others are just immature. (2) Have a desire for their son to get special treatment. I know he's not First Class, but he wants to be SPL... etc. IMHO, if they get in charge, they will make the exceptions for their child. In one case I know of, one of these folks took over as CM. Lots of questionable things happened after that. As a SM with a son in the troop, and as a son of a SM himself, I can honestly say that the majority of us are harder on our sons than on anyone else. But I'll also say that I believe 4 out of 5 SM/ASM sons are the cream of the crop in the troop. Why is that? I'm not sure. Perhaps it is that - since mom or dad is so involved - they are as well. Perhaps it is that they get a greater understanding of the overall program because they get it at home too. Perhaps the apple just doesn't fall far from the tree. Not sure, but it sure seems to be the case.

Judy, Some camps do have that requirement, usually for security measures more than anything. But it's a local rule. As I said earlier, we usually had an adult in the campsite, but not always. And we didn't do anything formal to ensure it was the case, it just usually worked out that someone was hanging around.

Like you, I have a son in the troop as well. I try to avoid signing off his requirements as much as possible. In fact, all of our ASMs are that way. They'll do it when they need to, but if someone else is available, they'd prefer them to handle it. Unfortunately, even though the majority of us live by that first point in the Scout Law, there are those that don't trust us. Not just us, they usually don't trust anyone. You'll eventually run up against that parent that thinks you are favoring your son. If you've avoided signing off on things for him, it just makes it that much easier to defend yourself.

Actually, the MB counselor aspect of this is not that unusual. Many districts operate under this approach. Ours is one of them. We only hae to register MB Counselors who (1) are not active scouters or (2) want to counsel for other troops. But, since they don't publish a MB Counselor list, #2 doesn't matter. I agree that this is more of a safety concern than anything else. scoutldr, have you ever heard of a situation where a scout wasn't qualified for Eagle because of unapproved MB Counselors? I've never heard of such a case.

Barry - No offense taken here. It's a fair question. I do believe the first line of discipline falls with the PLC. That's the PL and SPL trying to get a boy to behave, do his job, stop picking on someone, etc. In fact, I was really overwhelmed when I found out about a couple of our boys sticking up for a smaller scout at summer camp a few weeks ago. They saw some big kids picking on him (they were all in another troop) and they stepped in and stopped it. And they weren't bigger than them either! So, I think you and I are closer in agreement than my original post may have sounded. Where I was talking about was in the more serious cases of discipline where you have to get the parents involved. The scout that I had to ask to leave was a very frustrating case. This boy needs scouts as bad as anyone I've ever run across. He doesn't get a lot of attention from dad at home and I think that is a big part of the problem. Just so you understand, let me give you some examples, and these are only over the past two years. He's been with us for over seven (since Tiger's). On one of our first campouts, he beat another scout (my son) with a big stick creating several bruises on his back. He also cussed out me and a few other adults on that campout. While practicing for a color guard for scout Sunday he told me religion and church were "stupid". Last year's summer camp he tried to starve himself sick, so we would send him home. Eventually he ate and got somewhat better. On several occasions, when adults weren't around, he apparently got real smarteleck with the junior leaders and cussed them out. Of course, he was always smart to watch and not let any of us catch him. On a campout last fall he went ballistic on the SPL and ASPL about them not letting him start a game that they felt was not appropriate at the time. And, the final straw came when at a troop meeting, when he was alone with the boys, he started cussing them out again. I caught him this time and took him to the side. He then cussed me out, called me lots of names and told me he wanted to quit. I called his mom, and she came and got him. As you can see, I gave this young man lots of chances (and this wasn't the total list). Of course, there were lots of SM conferences and parent conferences along the way. His mom is a friend of mine, so it wasn't easy. We didn't just kick him out after his third time. He's now with another troop. Hopefully he'll get a handle on his anger management issues, but I'm afraid it's bigger than anything boy scouts can fix.

I haven't heard of this rule. I could see it causing some issues. I guess it may eliminate the shouting of "Shotgun!" as we get ready to load up. (Or does that only happen in the south?)

Boy, you go away for a couple of weeks and miss lots of action. This had the potential of being a worthwhile thread, unfortunately, it turned into a spat. Here are a few thoughts, and how our troop works. First, I must admit to agreeing more with Bob on this subject. I believe that one of our most important roles as Scoutmasters is to train, coach and mentor these boys into being good leaders. The majority of these problems should be solved before an election ever takes place. Second, I do not believe all boys are cut out to be leaders. Some have it naturally, some learn it OJT (on the job training), while others learn it through formal methods like TJLT and NYLT. But some boys, no matter how hard they try, will never be strong leaders. And, as someone else said, I've seen boys that I thought would be great leaders fall on their face, while others have been a pleasant surprise. Third, "give up after 2 or 3 months"? You have to be kidding me. If I gave up on every boy after 2-3 months, I'd have a room full of empty chairs. I've been working with our Troop Guide for several years now. I'm still trying to turn him into a leader. If I had given up on him after 2 months (or 2 years), he'd be gone. And I would hate to think what would happen with this young man if scouts wasn't in his life. As for our troop, our election cycles are every six months. Therefore, IMHO, we can survive any "bad" PL for that period of time. Think about it, it takes 1-2 months for the boys to get into their new role. If it's truly a problem of a boy not being capable, you're probably not going to know for sure until the term is half over. At that point, you have to make the best of it until elections come around again. I said this in another thread, I believe that if you have a strong senior leadership team (SPL, ASPL) and adult leaders, you should be able to survive a brief period with a bad PL. Here are some things I've done or would do if necessary: - Talk to the scout and find out if he enjoys the role. If he doesn't maybe he should step aside and let the APL lead the rest of the term. Also, counsel him about the need to fulfill his POR for rank advancmenet. You might not be willing to sign off his completion if he doesn't step up his performance. - If a boy wants to run for PL and he is woefully unqualified, I may talk to him about serving in another capacity before trying to take on PL. - Talk to the APL and see if he can step up and help the PL. Maybe he can plan on coming to all PLC meetings. Then if the PL doesn't show up, the patrol is covered. The PL may see this as a "threat" and may step up his performance as well. (I had to do this with our SPL/ASPL once, and it worked out pretty well). Just my .02 worth. Glad to be back and add to the fray.

I work for a restaurant company. And, since I'm a loyal employee, I frequent our local stores regularly. Over the years, I've learned what the signs of a good restaurant and bad restaurant are. Usually, within seconds of entering a store, I can tell you if it's run by a good manager or not. I've gone into stores that were normally outstanding, only to see lots of problems before I ever reach the counter. I'd look to see who the manager was, only to find out that a new manager had taken his place. The point of this anology is that the adult leaders - in particular the scoutmaster - have a huge impact on the quality of the program and of the youth leadership. I can tell a lot about the scoutmaster just by looking at his troop. It's our responsibility to develop, teach, train, mentor and yes - pull our hair out at times, in order to make this happen. The youth leadership will not always be perfect, but if you have a solid adult and senior scout leadership team, they will help even the most inept PL along the way. And, hopefully, the ill-prepared leader will not be reelected until he is ready for the position.

I don't think there is an issue with the caving aspect of these commercial ventures. This follows in the "novice" level of caving, which is generally okay for all ages. The issue I've seen at these setups is whether you can provide the necessary privacy required by the G2SS. Also, for Cub Scouts, is this an appropriate environment for family camping. I'm not well-versed in the Cub scout camping rules, but some folks on this forum are. Perhaps they can shed some light on it.

Camp Crooked Creek (just south of Louisville) meets most of your requirements. It has dining hall cooking, but I know some troops choose to cook their own meals. http://www.campcrookedcreek.com Camp Roy Manchester in Western Kentucky has a great aquatic program and troops cook their own food. I've never attended it, but there are some folks on this forum that have.

It's not a full physical. If you compare the Class I/II form with the Class III form, you'll see there is very little difference. There's much more in the medical history (which you fill out yourself). The doctor has a few additional checks to make, but that's all. The effort to fill out the two are essentially the same.

We see pretty much everyone at school functions, so I would usually just talk to them and try to see what happened. Most of the time it was around schedules or just a lack of interest. However, if there were problems, I was more likely to find it out from a friend of theirs. If I suspected there was a problem (usually with a DL or family/scout in the den), I would try to find something out from a 3rd party.

You asked "Is walking alone with a Scout on an open trail in a full campground a violation of the G2SS? " My opinion is the answer is "no". The only concern about this situation is the added issue of darkness. This could afford you the opportunity to have a greater level of privacy than appropriate. If the darkness provided this opportunity, then I'd change my answer to "yes". I've had to walk a scout to the first aid lodge, and have gotten up with scouts who were homesick during the night. I try my best to minimize the time and prevent any situation where I'm not confortable.