EagleInKY

Send me your e-mail in a PM and I'll forward you what we've put together.

Chances are a felony conviction in '88 is going to be permitted by both the CO and the BSA (as long as it isn't against children). But I would always confirm with the CO first. They have the right to turn him down as a leader. I had a committee member that had a DUI about the same time period. We all know him and didn't think twice about approving him. BSA apparently didn't have an issue either.

"Deal with him, don't try and compare him to anyone else. After all it is his best, his Oath.". Thanks Eamonn, that's a great comment. As for his ability to comprehend, I believe he does. He understands things are "right" or "wrong". He may not understand some specific words (like "Thrifty"), but he can understand the concept. Interesting comment about possibly having no business being a scout. I've seen boys with much more severe disabilities at summer camp. As for his specific disability, I haven't asked for what it is. I know it is both mental and physical. He has a very low IQ. But he doesn't appear to be "retarded" or have Downs. I had thought about being very selective with the BOR members. We'll have to see who we can come up with. Unfortunately, the best adults for it are SM/ASMs or his dad. But we'll come up with the best group we can.

FS is right on. This is the best way to open the discussion. It doesn't tie it to church attendance, but lets the scout explain it from his perspective. In the Eagle BORs I've served on, this is normal line of questions.

Kahuna wrote "I have re-read all the posts. Perhaps you were reading something different than I. It is NOT clear to me that the drinking is illegal. As to to the other two points, they are different if No. 1 is untrue. Please re-read all my posts." I've compiled some highlights of T216's comments. Highlights are mine: Posted: Thursday, 8/4/2005: 8:55:28 PM However, it has come to light that he drinks some with his buddies. Not on scout trips, but over the weekends or other "social" times, not scout-related at all. Troop committee has reviewed with all Life scouts the importance of their oaths to stay subsdtance-free, but yet this boy seemingly doesn't see anything wrong wiht having a beer or two at times. Nor do his parents. Posted: Thursday, 8/4/2005: 9:24:49 PM I told the dad, i'm not pretending to be the boy's parent or tell you how to do your job (as parent) - other than the obvious that what he is doing is against the law. But along these lines, how do you expect us (troop leaders) to sign off on his being an Eagle scout, when we know that he is choosing to drink underage? Yet the dad doesn't feel we should do anything, and that this shouldn't affect his son's advancement at all. Posted: Thursday, 8/4/2005: 9:41:37 PM Not that i think it has bearing on the real issue at hand, but i would like to add in that i have no reason to believe that the parents are buying it for him. (But yet the dad told me that they choose NOT to have a "zero tolerance" policy at their house. They know the son drinks beer from time to time (I really do not know how frequently) and do not have a problem with it). Posted: Thursday, 8/4/2005: 9:55:07 PM But he's 1. breaking the law and 2. not living by the Oath to keep himself "physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight" - which includes staying away from alcohol and drugs. Not just on scout activites but in everyday life. Posted: Friday, 8/5/2005: 8:57:20 AM The District leader said he definitely would not sign him off at this point but that he was going to check with "higher-ups" to see what they say. To his knowledge, there is not a clear black-and-white policy on this - other than the basic requirement that an Eagle candidate is supposed to be "the cream of the crop and a role model in his life and in society" - and that someone who is 15 and is underage drinking on a recurring basis doesn't currently fit that mold in his opinion, regardless of his other scouting accomplishments. Posted: Saturday, 8/6/2005: 6:35:41 AM PS: Drinking under age 21 is against the law in our state. There may be an exception for religious services, but that's not what's occuring here. Posted: Sunday, 8/7/2005: 12:13:40 PM i don't consider it hearsay when the dad has directly acknowledged the drinking. Kahuna, I realize you are an attorney are paid well to parse words. But I will say it again. I clearly see that (1) the drinking is illegal, (2) it's happened on multiple occasions (and likely to continue), and (3) the parents - even if they haven't seen it - acknowledge that it's going on.

We have a boy in our troop who has a learning disability. He is classified by the school system. I'm not sure of the exact nature of his disability, but it is very real and obvious. He also has a mild physical disability along with it. He's a super nice kid, but it is very difficult to carry on a conversation. He loses focus quickly and tends to wander off (both literally and emotionally). I've read the information regarding alternative requirements, and have a couple of questions for the esteemed members of this board. He has completed the requirements for Tenderfoot. We were generous with him on the physical fitness part, but I have no problem with that. He put forth the effort (much more than some). I've had his Scoutmaster's Conference. It went okay, but I spent most of my time reeling him back in, "Focus, Buddy, let's focus for a minute".... We didn't break much ground, other than he did remember my name and that I'm the Scoutmaster. (We celebrate the little things, you know). So now we need to do a Board of Review. This is going to be unlike any one they've ever done. They'll be lucky to get a couple of good answers out of him. My first question is, does anyone have experience conducting BORs for scouts with learning disabilities, and would you share them. Second, I have talked to the dad about the alternative requirements. At this point, he doesn't want to do that. We may face that down the road, but he wants to keep him "mainstreamed" for now. My second question is around this process. Is there any issue with waiting to make the request for alternative requirements later? I don't think there would be, but curious if anyone has had this issue come up. (Edited for clarity and spelling)(This message has been edited by EagleInKY)

"Of course those kinds of candidates would never get enough votes to be elected anyway, so what's the point in screening them out?" FS - I'm not so sure. I guess it depends upon the age and maturity of the troop. In our young troop, one of the most disruptive kids we have is also one of the most popular. At this point, I'd give him at least a 50/50 chance of getting elected. If that were to happen, it would legitimize his actions (in his mind). I'd rather use my role as a mentor to help him develop into a more mature young man and position him to run a little farther down the road, when he'll (hopefully) be more mature and more successful. Another valid reason for having some criteria (and I don't believe in a long list of them) is that it gives some minimum requirements for a young man to shoot for. For example, we have a requirement that they serve in a PLC position prior to running for SPL? Why? Because you need to understand the PLC process before you can run it. This menas he needs to be elected as a PL, appointed ASPL by the SPL or appointed Troop Guide by the SM. Any of these roles will qualify him to run for SPL. It also gives him several routes to take in getting "qualified". By having this as a requirement, it helps him understand some real practical ways to get the experience needed as SPL.

Welcome, and thanks for the French lesson. Glad to have you in the forum.

Okay Merlyn, For the record, I am against the BSA promoting creationism. I'm fine with schools discussing the debate (without getting into too much theology). But there is no point of this in scouting. We've got too many other great things to teach boys.

Kahuna, Please re-read all of T216's posts. It's clear that (1) the drinking is illegal, (2) it's happened on multiple occasions (and likely to continue), and (3) the parents - even if they haven't seen it - acknowledge that it's going on. I guess I'm more sensitive to this because of two things I'm dealing with. One is an adult leader who is an alcoholic, and it's beginning to effect his performance in Scouting. We're about to have a very painful, frank, discussion. Second, a friend of our's son (who just turned 18) snuck out of the house a few weeks ago. He wrecked his car and a 15 year old friend of his is in critical condition and may not live. Alcohol was involved. If the boy dies, he'll likely be charged with vehicular manslaughter. Teenage drinking is a problem and scouting is a great place to address it head on. Again, I would not approve this scout for Eagle until I see a change in his attitude.

Personally, I've had the pie in the face. I've also seen scoutmasters dye their hair a color for meeting a goal.

1. Get trained. Start witht the basics and move on from there. 2. Get help. Go to your dens. Tell them that you've been asked to lead the pack. They should be excited about this. But it means that you'll need help at the den level. You will continue to be there every week and help any way possible, but you need someone to take on the role as den leader (or at least co-den leader, with you). 3. Get to the Roundtable. Great place to get ideas. 4. Get to know other Cubmasters. Do you know any around you that could help with popcorn and rechartering? If not, go to roundtable and get to know them. 5. Get to know your DE and District committee. They can help you navigate the waters as well. Good luck.

Ah, the old pie in the face trick. Nothing motivates a scout more... I believe in supporting district or council events, if they are well-run and offer an opportunity to do something that would be hard to do yourself. We let the boys decide, but I encourage them to participate if I think it will be a good experience. They've talked about not doing Klondike next year, but I tell them that they'll have to replace it with some other outdoor activity. They will probably end up going again. As for troops who never go because they had a bad experience 10 years ago, I think they are doing the district and their scouts a disservice. Give it a chance, maybe it will be a great experience for the boys. Finally, one reason I haven't seen mentioned on this thread, is letting the boys get to know other scouts and find out that some of their classmates are actually scouts in other units. Every time we go to one of these, I hear a scout say something like "I didn't know Billy was a boy scout, he's in my Algebra class". Billy goes from being just another kid in class to a fellow scout.

No, those "assistant" roles are the only ones for 18-20 year olds. Troop Committee members must be 21.

I agree Ed, and with the others who feel this is a significant legal, if not moral, issue. If his attitude is how I understand it to be, he is truly not living by the Scout Oath & Law in his everyday life. That is a clear requirement for every rank, and can be used to hold up his advancement. If you don't do something about it, and other scouts know of this (I assume they do from your posts), then you are making a mockery of advancement. I've heard scouts say things like "if he got approved, anyone can...".

Welcome. It's great to have young guys like yourself stay involved with the program. I stayed involved up until I got married (age 22). Then was gone for a while. Being an EMT is a bonus for whatever unit is lucky enough to have you a part of it.

Welcome from an Eagle Scout, class of 1981.

Ditto, I agree with these great minds. Use this as a development opportunity. If it happens again, then you deal with it. As for the comment about atheism, I do not believe most troops immediately expel a scout if he claims to be an atheist. They use it as a development challenge for the young man.

Great to have you back Eamonn. Sounds like a great (if not challenging) time.

The BSA has no interest in promoting creationism and will never go where Mr. Johnson suggests. Moilan is just baiting the Christians on the forum to react. Just ignore the troll.

I agree with nldscout. As for your question regarding Eagle BORs, I believe they would be eligble. Your DAC would have to invite them to participate. I think he would be more open to including them, however, if they were registered as an ASM with a troop. (Note, wouldn't be able to serve on BORs for their own troop, but for others in the district).

Welcome to the forum. The only advice I have to give is make them fun, give them something each month that they can actually use in their position, and allow time for them to interact and get to know each other and share ideas.

I saw a scout recently that must have had 60 or so Merit Badges. When he filled up the front, he just started putting them on the back. He started the same way, just down from the shoulder, three across. It looked fine to me (darn impressive, actually).

I guess I fall in the "common sense" camp. I remember my own service project (back before the days of G2SS). I built a barbeque with a full chimney for our CO. We hauled creek-rock up scaffolding and ended up working on the roof of the pavilion. Of course, I was picky about which scouts helped me (only the mature, hard working kind of course). I think we were pretty safe. We didn't have any accidents. I think common sense should prevail. You know the candidate, does he have the maturity to handle the situation safely?

Assuming this person doesn't want to step down, your Charter Organization would have to be involved. Your Charter Org. Rep (COR, for short) is who you need to talk to. If the person can be persuaded to step down, that would make it much easier on everyone. I've found most COR's prefer this approach, as they don't want to get into a bunch of controversy and politics. Then you go to them and say "our cc has stepped down, so-and-so is willing to take their place, are you okay with that?". That's been the way we've typically handled it.