EagleInKY

Bonjour mon ami. Welcome to our prestigious group. You're among friends here, so don't let them scare you! Tell you a secret, I was born in France. My dad was stationed there in the U.S. Army. Of course, they had to renounce my French citizenship when they returned to the states, but I still have my French birth certificate.

Sorry CNYScouter, but I believe the BEST answer is "What is the SPL Handbook?" (ding, ding, ding) meamemg - "Is that the same advise you would give to your SPL if they were concerned with this problem?" Not exactly sure what you are asking. But let me give you an example. I've told this story before, so forgive me for the repeat. One time, our boys said they wanted to do a campout where nothing was planned. They just wanted to "hang out". Against my advice, they plan a campout to our council camp with nothing planned except the meals. There's a lake there where they can fish, plenty of hiking trails, a variety of other things to perk their interest. They basically planned meal times and that's about it. By Saturday afternoon, they were whining "Mr. J, what can we do??? We're bored.". Afterward, I used this as a lesson for the SPL and the PLC. It's their responsibility to plan fun, exciting activities. I think the reason for wanting to do this activity was two-fold. 1) They didn't like planning activities, and 2) they didn't like having to "stick to a schedule". They found out the hard way that it's much more fun to plan activities ahead of time, and then adjust the schedule as necessary, than to go in with nothing planned. We survey the kids opinion of activities after each event. No surprise, this was the lowest rated one ever. Barry - maybe my response sounded too harsh, not sure. But I do believe that the PLC roles are more than just fun and games. They are to teach the boys responsibility and leadership. And, you can't do that without a little work involved. Our PLC meetings are not misery by any means, but they aren't the highlight of the week either. BTW, we meet for one long meeting (usually 30 minutes) once a month and usually have a brief post-troop meeting update. If we know it's going to be a long meeting, we'll usually bring snacks and soda.

"Seperate" doesn't mean isolated on a deserted island. Our First Year patrol spends the instruction part of the meeting seperate from the older guys. But they are all together (in patrols) for the pre-opening, opening, game/activity and closing. The seperate part is for the instruction. You need to be teaching new guys basic scouting skills. The older guys can be working on more advanced stuff, or working on plans for an upcoming event. For example, we're starting a map & compass theme. The first years are covering all the basics (orienting a map, taking a bearing, basic orienteering). The older guys are going to learn GPS and more advanced orienteering skills. The games will be related to these themes.

No one ever said everything we do in life is "fun". The PL and SPL positions are jobs. Any boy running for office should understand that it's not just bossing people around, but planning activities and meetings. If the boys don't show up, let the meetings or activities go unplanned. Then, when the boys complain about being bored, have a heart-to-heart about the positions of responsibility that they signed up for. We had a troop meeting a few weeks ago where the PLs were supposed to have a couple of activities planned. They showed up unprepared. They were stumbling around, bored, not knowing what to do. We had a nice chat, they played a couple of games, and then I used the experience as an object lesson.

OneHour makes a great point. The boys own the product. The guys decide what they want to do, not the adults. There is much greater buy-in this way. And, the guys are learning that we'll try to do what they come up with. (Well, except for the one lad that is constantly coming up with unrealistic ideas.)

Ditto the semper dude. We do it the exact same way.

Dan described the process pretty well. That's the way we do it in our troop. The PLC puts together a calendar - they meet twice a year. They schedule the next 6+ months to some detail. Then they rough out ideas for the following six months. That is then presented to the committee. If they have concerns (costs, timing, safety, etc.), they discuss it. Sometimes tradeoffs are made, but - for the most part - they go with what the PLC comes up with.

I believe it is up to you. You can review it with the scout and see if he understands it to your satisfaction. Or, if you are confident in the counselor's work, then you may just accept his MB completion.

I agree, it's a PLC decision. We use six month terms and they can run for re-election once. They can come back and serve in the position after sitting out one term. This allows for rotation in the key leadership positions.

Welcome! You sound kind of like me. I took about 10 years off, and am now starting my 8th year back in.

Your DE should coordinate the scheduling with you. If you are the only pack that recruits from the school, you should have a lot of input into the timing. If there are multiple packs, he'll probably just to the best he can to meet your needs. Our DE's have often "oversold" and I get after them for that. I've heard the "it's only 1 hour a week" and I've heard the "it only costs $6 to try it for the rest of the year". Both, of course, are stretching the truth. We ask our DE to not say ANYTHING about costs or commitments, but let us work that into our presentation.

I gotta admit I struggle with this "paper Eagle" concept, too. Not that I don't use the term, because I do. I think it's like pornography, it's hard to define, but I know it when I see it. Heck, from some of the definitions I've heard, I guess you could call me a paper Eagle. I earned most of my Merit Badges at Summer Camp, and I don't remember ever having a PLC meeting in the form we have today. But I know we were a boy-led troop to a great extent and I know I did the work for my skill awards and merit badges. I also know that I led my Eagle project with virtually no adult help. SO, even though I may have earned most my MBs at camp, I know that I'm not a "paper Eagle". Thus an example of the problem with hard definitions. I think the fault - when there is blame to be placed - falls in one of two places (sometimes both). Sometimes the troop is running an Eagle Mill, with the primary goal being to place a large number of Eagles on the street. If you've been in scouting for long, you've probably seen them. I've had Webelos parents say to me "we're going to troop ### because we know johnny can earn his Eagle fast and move on". I kid you not, I've heard it several times. The other fault often falls on the parents. While we're trying our best to run a boy-led troop, I still have parents that interfere, do the work for their sons, or flat out cover up for them. I just had a run-in the other night with a parent who was blaming me for an advancement decision their son made. (He chose not to serve in a POC even though he was told that it could hold up his advancement). I'm suspicious that the same parents have done MB work for their son to turn in to his counselors. I can't stop it, because I can't prove anything. If they fool the counselor, there's nothing I can do. Anyway, I'm starting to spin off of the subject, I guess I'm a little peeved at them right now. But the fact is, sometimes a troop can run a great program, and parents can undo all the work you've done.

Wow! Welcome to the forum. I had to look twice at your information because - for a moment - I thought you might be one of our scout's mom, whose name is Tami. We look forward to getting to know you.

Welcome to another well-rounded scouter. We look forwad to learning more from you.

I thought about mentioning Twelve Angry Men (and yes, I mean the original with 12 male jurors, starring Henry Fonda). It's a great example of team dynamics and how to use productive conflict to lead your peers. We used it in a team building exercise (not scouts) and stopped the tape after the issue and the characters had been introduced. Everyone picked the order in which opinions would be swayed. It's interesting to watch from that perspective.

We pre-recruit Tiger Leaders as much as possible. Most of the time, we will have at least 2 or 3 incoming Tiger's that have older siblings in the Pack. We look at these parents and see if they are potential leaders. Also, since we're a small community-based pack, we know the kids that are of age to be Tigers in the coming year, and we look for good candidates in that group. We try to "pre-sell" the parents on the idea of Cub Scouting and being the leader. Over the past seven or eight years, I believe we only went into one school night not knowing who our Tiger Leader was going to be. Also, at school night, we emphasize that Tiger leadership is very much a "team sport". All parents need to be involved, and the Tiger Leader's job is primarily to pull the resources together. Each family usually takes a month or a meeting to coordinate. By the end of the year, we know who will be the den leader going forward.

Interestingly, our camp has moved from a local system to blue cards because so many out-of-council troops requested them. I agree with the point that the important factor is having some sort of documentation. It's not for the BOR, but for the paperwork leading up to it. If there are any discrepencies with council advancement records, the documentation can be used to straighten it out.

I agree with Prairie Scouter. While we'll welcome a scout to join us at any time, the program is laid out to be most effective if they join in the spring at "normal" crossover time. For example, if a scout joins after we've done the five mile map & compass hike for 2nd class, it may be a while (six months or more) before they'll have an opportunity to do it again.

We just had our semi-annual planning process. Two district/council events were on the agenda. Originally, the preliminary plan had them participating in the Fall Camporee. At the District kickoff event, we found out that the camporee had been cancelled this year because council was offering an event instead. (It is normally only every four years, but they moved it up two years this year for some reason). The PLC was very disappointed because everyone enjoyed the camporee last year. And, since they had already been to the council event a couple of times in the past, they had a "been there, done that" attitude. They decided to host our own "troop" camporee, with the same type of pioneering competitions that we had at the camporee lsat year. The boys held a great discussion, talked about the pros and cons, and made a very mature decision and backed it up with their reasons. The second event was Klondike. We've had horible weather the past two years. While there were some that didn't want to do it, I reminded them that they'd still be doing something, and that they have an opportunity to demonstrate leadership and bravery for the youger guys coming in this year. After a discussion, they decided to go for it.

Remember the Titans

Welcome to the forums Dave. I'm just a little ways south of you near Louisville.

Welcome to the forum. Should be double the fun the second time around.

Acco, you're so weird. Response. "I know you are but what am I? " :-)

Thanks Seabear and Madkins. I appreciate the advice. I have a meeting with the dad this weekend regarding another subject, but will talk about this some more as well. Good comments about having one person ask questions and keep them as simple as possible. I'll talk to the Advancement Chair regarding the possibility of including his dad or another adult. I think we'll hold off on this one and see how it goes. BTW, the boy's dad is very involved - committee member and cubmaster. So far, he has been able to attend every campout. I think we could make it through a weekend without him, but I do not believe we could make it through summer camp.

Of course he did. He was confused. Daniel Boone was the great Kentuckian. But, they were both portrayed by Fess Parker on TV. Hence the confusion of Mr. Paratus. Either that, or he was making a clever joke, and he is quite the clever jokester.