EagleInKY

Juggler, Wow, 2 hours. And I assume it wasn't an Eagle BOR? What rank was it for? Our AC sometimes goes a little overboard as well, but the BORs are not near that long. Ours usually runs like this: Tenderfoot - approx. 10 min 2nd Class - approx. 15 min 1st Class - approx. 15-20 min Star - approx 20-30 min Life - approx 30-40 min We had one Life BOR that lasted an hour, and we all thought that was really long. Turns out they were having issues getting the scout to commit to an answer (he was being wishy-washy, to use the technical term). Knowing the scout, I can imagine that was the case. They felt a Life candidate should be a little more "grounded". I think the young man learned a lot about dealing with people - especially adults. That people respect you for having an opinion much more than if they think you are just trying to give you the "right" answer. I think he'll now be much more prepared for his Eagle BOR. As for your case, you have got to get the troop committee to handle this. If the CC won't do it, get the committee members to take a stand. If enough parents express an outrage, then he'll probably step aside. Good luck.

Welcome back. Yes, it's a little more PC than the 70's, but the program is still there. In fact, there are so many more opportunities for high adventure and other fun activities that just didn't exist back in "our day". I miss some of those things we used to do, but I enjoy these new things even more. Have fun and enjoy the ride with your son.

Our DAC has a set of questions that he uses for every BOR. They are divided into sections (topical areas like "Leadership" and "Duty to God"). The sections are assigned out to the members of the board. Each member is encouraged to ask as many of the questions as possible (for consistency sake between candidates), but is also encouraged to add on or follow up with additional questions. It seems to work very well.

Thanks Bob. OGE. I agree with the "it must be true, I saw it on the Internet" syndrome. But, when you see something on the official BSA site, linked off of the main menu (not hidden or found in a search), it makes you scratch your head and think "how'd they overlook that?".

FS - You are absolutely correct. I feel the same way about the "talk to a civic leader" requirement. First, I require them to choose someone significant to talk to, not just their homeroom teacher or someone they are already around all the time. Second, I ask them to take some notes and review with me what they talked about. Some may see this as adding to the requirement, but I see it as holding it to the standard it was intended. I see troops around me that have one of their parents come in that is a teacher, pastor, school board member, etc., and they sit all the first year scouts in front of them and sign off on that requirement. It's frustrating to me when I see this. I'm afraid this one will be treated in a similar manner by those troops. As for our troop, we'll do our best to ensure it is used as the BSA intended.

This is strange. I would think that a change in the Methods would warrant significant communication - not just a deleted paragraph on a website. And why would you remove it? I think it's equally important and one of the great aspects of scouting. Has anyone else heard anything about it?

Bob, the reason, I believe, that many people see it as lame is that it is a requirement that can just be a "checkoff", depending up on how it's used. Scenario #1 - the Check off Tommy walks up the SM. "Hey Mr. J, I did that recruiting requirement for First Class". Mr. J responds, "Okay Tommy, let me sign your book". Tommy hands him his book. As Mr. J signs, Tommy thanks him and walks away. Scenario #2 - as envisioned by the writers (IMHO) Tommy walks up the SM. "Hey Mr. J, I did that recruiting requirement for First Class". "Great Tommy, who did you talk to?". "My friend, Billy". "Billy Johnson? He's a good kid. What did you tell him about scouting?" "I told him about some of the cool things we do, like rafting and hiking and stuff." Tommy replies cheerfully. "Great, Tommy. Did you tell him about our troop? You know, where we meet and when we meet." "Yeah, I think so. I don't think he's interested, though". "Well, that's too bad". Mr. J replies. "Why don't you take him a copy of our annual plan and show him the fun things we're doing next year. Maybe he'll get excited about that trip to Gettysburg. Write on it the time and place of our troop meetings and invite him to come sometime." "Okay. But will you sign off my book?". "Sure. Great work Tommy, I hope Billy takes a look at scouting". He signs his book. End of demonstration I'm going to reserve judgement until I see it in practice. I think SMs can use this as a tool to help recruitment. Unfortunately, I believe a great number of them will look at is as another easy checkoff.

Mine involved disability awareness. We did a number of things around this subject(guest speakers, service projects, games/actitivies, etc.). Let your imagination go, you'll come up with something.

A pack is not a legal entity on its own. It is "owned" by its charter organization. If your charter organization is a church, they are tax exempt and do not have to file a tax return. If your charter organization is a business, then they would have to include your income and expenses in its tax return. In either case, a unit would never file a tax return for themselves.

I agree that we tend to jump on the adult leadership too quick. I think it's because we always assume the poster is giving the facts accurately. After all, we're scouts, and scouts are trustworthy. Unfortunately, though, truth often lies in the eyes of the beholder. At least it seems that way. I've started to hesitiate before bashing the leadership. Sometimes I'll say 'assuming your facts are accurate' or 'if this is truly the case'... I think we need to play devil's advocate from time-to-time to get all the facts out. I guess I'm more sensitive to it because I have a parent that's been bashing me over the head for about a year now. He's written letters to council, tried to turn people against me, and even used his son to try and recruit boys to go to another troop. None of this was successful because the truth hasn't been on his side. However, if he were posting here, he would probably tell you some stories like these: - I did not allow his son to run for PL last year. Fact is, his son had committed to serving a 1 year term as Den Chief, so we made him honor his commitment. - I did not allow his son to run for SPL this year. Fact is, his son did not meet the criteria set out by the PLC. - I did not give him a POR, so his rank advancement has been delayed. Fact is, the SPL tried to give him a POR, but he refused. He was mad that he didn't get elected PL. The SPL told him that it could delay his advancement, and the boy said it was okay. - I put our boys in dangerous and threatening situations without regards to their health and safety. Fact is, the district did not provide a port-a-potty at the Klondike Derby and he didn't like it. I think it was more an issue with his son than anything. - I denied his son signoff of a requirement for his next rank. Fact is, Troopmaster made a mistake and credited him with a requirement he hadn't met. When it was caught, it was corrected. He wanted me to credit it to him anyway, even though he hadn't fulfilled the requirement. (A scout is Trustworthy?). And the list goes on. I'm not making these up, these are real comments from him (paraphrased). Some of these were included in letters to the council. So, I think you'll understand why I may be more reluctant to assume the SM is in error.

First, I agree that the CC and COR have the ultimate authority here. If they want to "fire" her, they can. And, of course, they should be the ones that have to sit her down and explain why. But before that happens, you should have an open discussion with them. Explain her role, and see if there are some ways you can help resolve some of the issues. (Perhaps you can provide two ASMs to work with this age group, and let the boys decide who they like to work with). Possibly you can talk to her about smoothing her rough edges a bit. Life is full of compromises, maybe we can find one here. Frankly, I'd like to see all of you sit down together and have a discussion. I did this about six months ago with a committee member that has issues with me. We didn't get very far, but at least my conscience is clear. Every complaint he had was defended by BSA policy or the SM handbook. The only problem now is that he knows he can't confront me with anything. He's only tried a couple of times since then, and he was wrong on those occasions too. Therefore, he spends most of his time talking behind my back and trying to turn folks against me. (Luckily for me, everyone knows what he's like and pretty much ignores him.) But I digress... I've had my challenges finding good ASMs. I know they are hard to find. If my TC came to me and told me one had to go, I'd be pretty upset. Especially, if I thought she waa doing a good job. I'd ask that they don't do anything until they found a suitable replacement. I think that is a fair request. Especially before you give them the "I'll quit" ultimatum.

Welcome Squirrel. To the best of my knowledge, you are the first scout from Congo to join the forum. Who knows, maybe you will start a trend.

I consider the scout's handbook as their "official" source. If they complete something, they can have me (SM), an ASM, or an approved leader sign it. Approved leaders include SPL and Troop Guide, but also include others as appropriate. I keep records in Troopmaster, but sometimes they get out of date. I print off a summary and give it to the troop committee/parents every month. I also provide a detail printout to each scout about a month before each COH. This gives them a chance to clear up any discrepencies.

In order to stay "current" on your YPT training, you must take it every two years. I don't think it's as much about the rules training as it is to keep them fresh in our head.

Can't help you with the website, the only mac I use is my Ipod. Welcome to the forum anyway. I hope you enjoy your time here. And good luck with your new pack.

Some topics you can cover in a troop meeting: - Get a topo map of your area (you can have them custom made at www.offroute.com). - Have scouts identify map symbols and find them outside (if possible) - Take bearings on objects (inside or out). - Learn how to orient a map and find your way using triangulation. - Learn about declination and how magnetic north differs from true north (a basketball can be a great training aide for this - think about it). - Have scouts guess at the direction to their home, school or place of interest. Then use orienting a map skills to find out how close they are. - Get the basic compass game from the scout shop. It can be set up in a very small area. In fact, the smaller the area, the harder it is. - Scavenger hunt - hide items and give bearings to find them. (Takes a little less time than a full orienteering course). - Have the scouts build an orienteering course (then re-use it in a couple of weeks). - Map symbol identification relay game. My hands are getting tired, but the opportunities go on and on. Good luck.

Like "Thescout", ours are held in the first part of the year (I believe Jan-Apr).

I've seen this work. Get your new parents in a room. Remind them that the den was a workable size before all their kids joined. We need someone to step up to co-lead or assist with the den, or we'll spin these new guys off as a new den and they'll have to run the whole show by themselves. This sounds harsh, but it's the message they hear at soccer, band and every other activity. You won't be the first to tell them that. Take your returning parents in a room. Remind them that they had a great time as Tigers (hopefully), and that it was successful because they shared the load. There den leader needs that continued help throughout cub scouts, or you'll lose him to burn-out. Ask someone to help or co-lead the den. Hopefully, you'll get someone to step up (ideally at least one from each group). Then you can make the decision about den size.

Has no one heard of the "Safety Afloat" training? It's required for canoe trips on lakes and slow-moving watercourses. There is a "Swift Water Training" for canoeing on swift-flowing watercourses as well. I haven't heard of "Swift Water Training". Safety Afloat covers all float trips, whether there is a current or not. Actually, the user of a guide/outfitter is a great way of not only ensuring a safe trip, but also teaching/reinforcing the safety afloat guidelines. We use the safety afloat guidelines to make sure the outfitter meets the minimum criteria. Scouts gain an understanding and appreciation of why we do the things we do. And, it's easier than getting your own equipment, lifeguards, trained personnel, etc.

It's interesting that you are having problems getting adult commitment for the high adventure program. My experience has been the other way around. I have challenges finding adults who will work with the younger scouts, but have an endless supply of adults who will do the high adventure. Like Kudu mentioned, we'll do the two-tiered campout. For example, next weekend we're going camping as a troop, but most of the older guys (in our troop, that's 2nd-4th year scouts) are going on a overnight backpacking trip. A couple are hanging back with the first years as they do their 5 miler for 2nd class. We also just did a fun white water rafting trip. Again, it was for the "older" guys. We did this both as a way of motivating/rewarding them, as well as just a general safety issue. We weren't ready to put our first year guys into that type of situation. I believe the older guys appreciate it, and will likely stick around longer because of it.

I know this requirement idea has been discussed before. Seems to me that a similar requirement used to exist way back in time. I don't have any of my historical info handy, but I'm sure somebody here knows for sure.

Rick - There are some situations where the "1 in a tent" situation can't be resolved. One situation is summer camp, where the camp provides the 2 person BSA wall tents. You can't put a third scout in their. So, it's either pair them up with their parent or let them sleep alone. The second situation is backpacking. Although possible, you're usually not going to carry a 3 man backpacking tent with you on the trail.

Eagle76 - This was debated to a great extent about a year ago. Here's the thread: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=75210#id_75210 Bob White's stance was that it was part of the Buddy System. He never addressed questions posed by me and others about when it may not be possible. I, and most everyone I believe, agreed that buddies in a tent are a best practice. The question is whether it's policy, or just that - best practice. I like Mike F's comments. They are some common sense questions to think through before letting a scout sleep on his own.

Several years ago, before I was involved with it, our pack had outgrown the CO's space and there were no other meeting place options in our area of the county. So, the pack split up into two teams. They held two pack meetings, with half of the dens at each meeting. Some events, like Pinewood Derby or outdoor activities, were done as a whole. I understand that it was a logistical challenge, but it allowed them to stay together until other options presented themselves.

Check with the district to find out if there are units in your area that could use a helping hand. Or, check around in your community to find out who is involved. Go talk to them, tell them what you are interested in doing. Best of luck!