EagleInKY

Permission granted.... Fellow scouters are always welcome around this campfire. Although, be warned, sometimes the conversation gets hotter than the coals. Enjoy your stay.

I still think the best training I received in Scouting is my TLT course (predecessor to JLT and NYLT). It taught me a great deal about the patrol system (much more than my troop did), how to teach and how to work with others. It was a great experience. When I served on staff, I learned even more. As an adult, Woodbadge would have to certainly rank high on the list. For our unit, I think the best training we've done is the Troop Committee Challenge. Very few things can help a troop run more smoothly than having an engaged troop committee that understands their role.

Ditto all the above. I still would take an approach similar to what I said earlier. But, given the additional facts I would make sure the Committee Chairman and CM knew about it and planned on being there. It sounds like you need to be prepared to say "Okay, then our den is comprised of my Johnnie, and his six friends Adam, Billy, Charlie, Davey, Eddie and Frankie. The rest of you are welcome to form dens on your own." Sometimes you have to stand firm to make this stuff work out. You'll lose a few, maybe you'll end up with two dens of eight. But that's better than one chaotic mob of 20.

Agreeing with Kenk, the first key to avoiding burnout is splitting that den. Before using Ken's approach, I would try one thing. Ask every family to have a parent present at next week's den meeting. Tell them it's an important planning session and you need 100% participation. If their child can't be at the den meeting, encourage a parent to come anyway. Line up someone (maybe your spouse) to handle the kids for about 30 minutes away from you. Tell them the situation and that the den has to split. You'd like to make it as painless as possible, so the first option is to find someone to step up and be a den leader. Then split the den along logical lines (friends go with friends, maybe there is a different preference for meeting nights, etc.). If that approach doesn't work, then you need to do the lottery approach. Also, offer to partner with the other den leader to develop a year-long schedule together. You can leverage each other for meeting ideas, activities and campouts. This reduces the overall planning burden on both den leaders. We've done this successfully several times in our pack.

No suggestions on transport, but do want to encourage you to take the time to get used to the altitude. Colorado Springs is an excellent choice. You can do Royal Gorge, Pikes Peak and definitely don't pass up the Air Force Academy. Spend a day there siteseeing and you'll be amazed how much better you will handle the altitude.

Thanks for the nice review Bob.

Lots of unanswered questions. You say you've never done anything like this before, but do you backpack at all? It's quite a jump if you haven't. What type of program are you doing? Planning your own, using a guide/outfitter....? I can't overemphasize the need to do some shakedown hikes. If you haven't done any, do so asap. Start small. Do a few miles, camp and a few miles in. See how the guys like the adventure of camping without the trailer, showerhouse, "real" food, and all the conveniences of car camping.

Gee, are we from the same unit? With a couple of minor variations, I've got the exact same situation. I agree that you sometimes have to let someone go for the good of the whole. It's unfortunate that sometimes the kids suffer because of their parents. But, especially in Cub Scouting, it's kind of a package deal. Usually these types, once they've worn out their welcome, will move somewhere else to wreak havok. Make sure your leaders are united. Get your COR and DE involved if you have to "kick him out". Hopefully they'll leave on their own. I'll tell you the same thing I've told our Cubmaster. Hang tough, it will get better. The CM job can be lots of fun. It's unfortunate that sometimes people (usually parents) try to keep it from being that way.

Not sure of the dynamics of your neighborhood, maybe this will work. You can put together a pretty slick brochure that highlights the adventure of Boy Scouting. Include a schedule of activities they can attend. Then stop by the house with a couple scouts and invite them in person.

Yes, they can relearn. But not the same material year after year. This will bore them. For example, first years learn map & compass. 2nd/3rd years can learn GPS at the same time. Keeps the troop program in synch. Older scouts can do some geocaching. Another... first years do hiking. 2nd years prep for a longer hike and each takes some gear. 3rd years learn backpacking basics and go on their first backpacking overnighter. older scouts plan a backpacking trip and take the 3rd years with them for the first time. This keeps the guys along the same theme, but each growing at their own level. Hopefully it will help keep the guys interested in scouting longer, if the challenge grows each year.

This must be reported ASAP. Ideally it should be reported by the SM or the CC. Preferably, it would be reported by someone who witnessed it, so if the SM or CC didn't witness it, I'd try to have someone who did with me on the phone. I wouldn't wait until Monday. I'd call him now. I believe all councils have a number published to report abuse.

drakmund - We've had the same issue come up - guys always picking the same thing. Often it's because they don't have anything to reference accept what they've done before. I've given them links to other troop websites, lists of ideas, handouts/brochures, etc. In the end, I had to set a goal for them to think outside of the box and come up with some creative ideas. They eventually did, and we've had our best program year ever. Now the test will be to see if they can do it again.

kittle - You're making too much of this. The requirement says that he has to "Discuss with a boy who is eligible for scout membership the benefits of scouting and your troop ". That can be a 5 minute (or less) converstation with someone he knows. Surely there is somebody (church, sports team, neighborhood, etc.) that he can do this with.

True, the SM must approve the service hours before they are worked. (Note, not the Committee, but the SM). However, that does not give the SM the right to add to the requirement simply states that the scout must work six hours on an approved project. It does not state anywhere about what it should be for. The only time I've "denied" the hours a boy wanted to work was when I thought it was (1) too simple or (2) he was double-dipping with something else (Beta Club, etc.).

Trevor - I had a similar experience in an Eagle BOR a while back. The fellow had held none of the true leadership positions as you spoke of, but had been Scribe, Instructor, Librarian, Webmaster, etc. He talked in terms of leading by example, mentoring younger kids one-on-one and leading by serving (great example of "servant leadership"). Interestingly, this guy had started his own computer business around the age of 13 or 14, and was very much a go-getter on things. He just had no desire to be the focal point of the troop.

This is a popular fund raiser in our area. Our troop has not done it, but I know several who have. This is the guidelines I was told by my DE. - No one wears field uniform. Troop t-shirts or other activity uniforms are fine. - Youth cannot be in the same area where alcohol is served. It's fine for them to be at the soda booth or the hotdog booth, just not the beer booth. To be in the agreement with the spirit of the rule, they should not even be in eye-sight of it. In the cases I'm aware of, no youth work at all, it's purely a parent-run fundraiser. - No adult should partake in alcohol at the activity. Even if they are not working directly with the youth. As for the comment saying the rule prohibits scouts from going to ball games or other activities, that is an example of taking the letter of the law too seriously. The spirit of the rule is that alcohol is not a part of the event the scouts are participating in. I believe the rule does prohibit parents/adults from partaking in alcohol at the game. But it has no impact on the guy sitting two rows in front of you.

I've seen it done both ways. Sometimes, we've communicated almost every detail of the camporee activities. This gives the guys a chance to prepare exactly for what is in store for them. If you're going to have a bunch of younger troops there, this is a pretty good idea. However, I've also known us to have camporees where only the vaguest of details are known. A "pioneering activity", a "fire building activity", etc. may be all that is known. I think this is more fun, but can be worrysome for younger scouts.

Welcome to our campfire. Pull up a log and enjoy your stay.

Hunt, I believe you would be well within your rights to say that. A better method, however, is to set the expectation BEFORE they earn Eagle. In your SM Conference for Eagle, talk about what you want them to do with the troop after they become Eagle. Talk about how they can be a great mentor and example, the types of roles/positions they can fill, etc. Then, you have a stronger leg to stand on if they disappear.

Depending upon how cold it gets, this is the layers I'll usually wear: 1. Polypropylene long underwear 2. Poly/wool or poly/cotton pants (depending upon temps) 3. Lined, nylon warm-up suite pants (serves as a moisture barrier as well as provides some warmth). 4. Snow/ski pants as an outer shell. We teach our guys the COLD principle. It's a little simplistic, but they can remember it: C - wear ©lean, appropriate clothing. Dirt takes away insulating value. Appropriate - less cotton, more poly/wool/fleece. O - avoid (O)verheating. Pick the right clothing for the activity and adjust as your activity level goes up or down. Sweating is a big no-no in winter survival. L - dress in (L)ayers. Absolute must. And is a key to avoiding overheating. D - stay (D)ry. Avoid stepping in water or getting wet, wear moiture barrier if it's raining/snowing. Of course, overheating is one of the main ways to get wet, so remember to adjust those layers.

Remember, this is like a big ship, you can't turn it on a dime. You'll need to do some work to make this happen. And, since you're not the SM, it may take even longer. Some suggestions (long term), get some boys to attend NYLT. This gives them a better understanding of both boy-run and the patrol system. Our SPL came back this year with tons of interest in developing a stronger patrol system. Start young - get the first year guys into an NSP and force the patrol concept on them from the get-go. This helps with the transition. We're trying to become more patrol-oriented (primarily being pushed by the SPL). This weekend we're holding our own troop "camporee". We're operating totally within the patrol system. The troop leadership (adults & sr. leaders) are acting as the district camporee staff would. Each patrol is running their own campsite, deciding their own menu, shopping for their own food, etc. They're also responsible for all preparation (practicing lashings, etc.). I'm excited about what this may do for our troop. If it works, it may be an idea for you to share with your guys as well.

Semper - you rock dude. I'll have to think on it. Boy would I have loved to have been there when that happened!!!

4-H does a lot of "school clubs". This is where they'll conduct one of their programs, usually as an extension to the school's curriculum. For example, the local 4-H in our county teaches "Character Counts" in all of the school's 5th grade classes. So, what's the point? Every kid in each of those classes is registered as a 4-H member. Each class is treated as a "club". They elect a president, and for one hour a month, they act as an organization. These kids have no real understanding (IMHO) that they are members of the 4-H. They wear no uniform, do nothing related to it outside of the classroom, and generally are members in paper only. My guess is this is not an uncommon practice, and helps to inflate their numbers nationwide.

Our guys did whitewater (New River, WV) this summer and loved it. They all say it was the best time they've ever had.

Acco - Not to play the semantics game, but you are always an arrowman. You are only a member of a lodge if your dues are current.