EagleInKY

Wow, 5 scoutmasters in 7 years. Looking forward to that thread.

Old Grey One - That sounded like a BW answer. I believe klflintoff is wanting to know more abour the procedure than the policy. As I understand it (and practice it), it is up to the SM to determine who signs it off. In our case, I retain that right. In most cases there is no issue. But when there is, I make sure to get input from the other adults, the SPL and his PL. I sign off on scout spirit when I have the SM conference. We'll talk about how he's living by the oath & law. I'll ask him to give me an example or two if he can. I'll point out an example if I can. I have held guys up on this. When I have done that, I give them specific examples of how they are not acting like scouts should act. I also give them expectations. The only problem I have is that problem kids will usually meet your minimum expectations, and then stop. You have to continue to raise the bar with them. IMHO, the BOR has limited authority over this. They only step in if a glaring scout spirit issue comes out. This could happen. I've heard aobut it happening in Eagle BORs. One thing I do to prepare the BOR is that I'll give them a heads up on things like this. That way they are aware of the issues, and can reinforce the message that I've been communicating.(This message has been edited by EagleInKY)

Semper dude, you kill me. For Webelos, I wouldn't recommend the candle route. I think they're beyond that. I would recommend doing EXACTLY as you suggest. (But if you want to know about conduct candles, I'll be happy to tell you more).

From the website - "In 1978, .... The Old Kentucky Home Council in Louisville, Kentucky , became the first Council to have a female to serve as a Field Director." I remember her. My parents were involved at the district level. I had no idea she was the first.

Here in the bluegrass state, there are about 4 months of the year that you may want that extra layer. Of course, you probably only need it half of the time during those months. SO, when I need it, I wear one of two fleece liners - one is red and the other dark green. They both blend nicely with the uniform and look neat. I encourage the boys to go this route as well, instead of covering it up with some ragged sweatshirt.

Welcome to the forum. I'm sure there are some challenges for you that many of us can't relate to. While there are more and more women in Scouting, there aren't a lot of scoutmasters that I've run across. It's interesting, our scoutmasters are all male (we do have some female committee members that serve on BORs and do other things), and I've heard from some that they like coming to our troop because of the "strong male leadership" and I've heard others express concern that it wasn't more "balanced". Personally, I'm open to whatever, ours has just turned out this way.

Welcome to the scouting family. You picked a fun place to start. While you are learning all about Cubs/Webelos, make sure to learn about Boy Scouts along the way. Your main job is getting them ready for Boy Scouts, which is way different than Cubs.

Many years ago, when I took over as Cubmaster, I had heard about how competitive our pack was. I was a little apprehensive. I made a big point to make sure parents knew that I expected them to behave. I also took some steps to take as many human factors out of the equation (electronic eye finish line, no adult relatives of a boy currently racing was allowed in the track area, etc.). We also had a workshop day where kids could come and get help with their car. These things helped level the playing field and made it a more fun event. We also do the "open class", our rules are that it can't use any form of engine, must be under a certain height (finish line limitation) and must not harm the track or other cars in any way.

Had a young man in my Woodbadge course. Had coal-black hair, tatoos and more piercings than I care to know about. One of the other adults from his troop said we were lucky, because he usually had more colorful hair options. I gotta admit that I prejudged him to an extent. He turned out to be a really nice young man. I don't know if he finished his ticket, but I think his troop is lucky to have him. (But I still wouldn't want my son to look like him) :-)

I was an external frame holdout. My pack had serviced me well for 30+ years and well over 300 miles. But after years of kidding about my "antique", I finally traded it in on a new internal frame (Kelty Redcloud). I gotta admit, I'm pretty attached to my new pack. It fits like a dream and is much easier to hike with. I can easily fit everything I need for a weekend excursion with tons of room to spare. I'm sure I could handle a Philmont load in it as well. The down side I've always heard is that internal frames don't allow as much air circulation between the body and the pack. Since I'm a "sweater", I thought that would be a problem for me. But it has not been, at least not yet.

Momentary sidebar - I see it mentioned in here from time to time. Two-deep leadership is not required for den meetings. While it is always a good idea to have two adults present (for many reasons, including the legal ones), the BSA does NOT require 2-deep leadership for meetings. Cancelling a den meeting because an assistant can't show up is not a good thing. The 2 deep leadership rule only applies to activities. Sidebar is over. Return to your normal broadcast.

One thing I've learned (the hard way) is that people don't like to be brow-beaten, begged for, whined to or made to feel guilty. These are turnoffs when it comes to recruiting. The best success I've had is by first hand picking the one or two people I want to have involved. Then I talk to them 1-on-1 about the benefits of being involved. "We can shape the direction of this pack... Your son will benefit from having you involved with the program... The uniform is tax deductable..." . Well, the last one hasn't worked very well, but the others have. The only success I've had in publically asking for help is when I've been just totally overwhelmed. I've had parent's meetings where I've just laid it out to them. "Folks, I'm swamped and can't take any more on right now. I really need some help from you, even if it's just coordinating one activity or playing one small role. Anything would be appreciated.". This approach has worked to some degree. The two times I used it, I did get some people to step up to take specific roles (popcorn chair, treasurer, etc.). I don't think this method works to recruit den leaders.

Semper dude. Sorry I missed your question, just stumbled upon it today. We haven't pulled the plug on anyone yet. We've had five of these in the past two years, and all have stayed. There is one we thought long and hard about this year. He's totally new to scouts. He's very smart, but has no social skills whatsoever. Dad "mothers" over him like no one I've ever seen. It's actually kind of scary. He doesn't come to a meeting or a campout if dad isn't there with him. The other adults spend most of our energy trying to peel dad off of him. I've been really tempted to ask if Scouting is really what they want for their son, because they are having a difficult time letting go. As for the decision, we've always felt it was the decision of the SM and ASMs, since we're the ones who have to work with them. But we'd give the Committee Chair and COR a heads up.

Yes there are banned forms of money raising. Check out the back of the Unit Money Earning Application. There are limitations, such as competing against retail businesses, being sold on the product's merits (and not the "name" of scouting), and protecting the name and goodwill of the BSA. Check out the form here: http://www.scouting.org/forms/34427.pdf

Welcome to the virtual roundtable. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy your time here. Look forward to getting to know you better.

But only to confuse things... Let's say Eagle Scout Johnny turns 18 and becomes an ASM. He's been dating the SM's daughter, and they get married just after they turned 19. The new bride loves scouting as much as anyone else and registers as a committee member. She loves the outdoors and tries to camp whenever her schedule allows. Mr. & Mrs. Johnny Eagle Scout can share a tent, because in the eyes of the BSA, they are both Boy Scout ADULT leaders. But, if Johnny and the Mrs. are also Venturers (perfectly legitimate), they would NOT be allowed to sleep together in those outings, because in the eyes of the BSA, they are both Venturing YOUTH members. And who said the rules are easy to understand???

"Since our unit's inception slightly over 4 years ago, our unit has had a policy that guarantees a spot only for crossovers from our affiliated pack and congregants of the CO church." We have the same policy. We allow others to join, but we say that there is a two month try-out period (hate the term "probation period"). If, for any reason, the troop or the family doesn't think it will work, we refund their troop fees and let them walk away with no hard feelings.

I took it that the pack situation was just used as an example, which led to msnowman's question " I was wondering - is it ever appropriate for an adult (when the floor is open for suggestions) to present an activity idea?" We ran with the question as being "Is it ever appropriate for an adult to suggest an activity idea to the PLC?". We've then been talking about methods of achieving that, within the boy-led system. msnowman - am I correct?

eagle90 & troop180 - It's not that ideas can't come from the outside. I agree that boys, left to their own devices, will often plan the exact same program from year to year. The trick is to get the boys to come up with the ideas. Make them think it's truly their own, even when you know it came from somewhere else. Often in committee meetings, a parent will suggest an idea for an activity. Sometimes it sounds good, sometimes I'm not impressed. If it sounds good, I'll keep it in mind and figure out how to get it into the boys heads. If the idea doesn't sound that good to me, I'll just say something like "get your son to sell it to his peers and work it through the system". The parents often think I can make anything happen. And, truth is, often I can. But I don't like to do it unless I think it's a really good idea. Here are some subtle ways you can get ideas into the guys heads and hopefully get them to adopt them as their own: - Scoutmaster minutes - work an idea or concept into your minute. - Scoutmaster conferences - get the guys to talk about what they'd like to do, and then explain to them how to get that into the plan. - SM/SPL discussions - I can give the SPL ideas to think on without him worrying about me taking over. These can be very effective - Present goals at beginning of planning process. I give the PLC goals I'd like them to work on. Often these turn into activity ideas. - Present your vision to the troop's leaders. This is part of the new Troop Youth Leader Training curriculum. - Build a folder of activity ideas. Bring that folder to the planning sessions. Make sure the "good ones" are in there. And that's just a start. There are lots of ways of getting your suggestions across, without taking over and planning for the boys.

Eagle90 - "Let's not get bogged down in heirarchy and forget we are here to provide an exciting program for the boys. ". The reason for considering this is that most committee members and parents don't understand boy-led to the level of the SM. If a bunch of adults start giving ideas to the SPL and PLC members about "Do this and don't do that", the boys won't know who/what to listen to. I'd much rather handle that role through the SM/ASMs, who are much more aware of the boy-led dynamics. Also, you say we are to "provide an exciting program for the boys.". I disagree. We are to enable the boys to enjoy the program they choose for themselves. "Providing" a program sounds more like choosing, planning and carrying out - something that we are not supposed to do.

Tried the gel - hated it. Tried the cutout paper, and like it pretty well. I've used it to put on most of my patches. The edges will peel. For me, the council strip and troop numerals are the main culprits. I think it's because the sleeve gets bent on the hanger. I've found a little needle & thread on the ends solves that problem quite nicely.

I know of a large troop (100-150 boys) that has a "mandatory" fund raiser every year. I don't think they use that term, but every member is "expectec" to help. They raise well over $10k every year. But, the troop does not charge any dues or fees. Every campout or activity is paid for out of the money raised. Now, you can argue the merits or demerits of this approach, but that's their decision, not ours. So, can a troop go through that kind of money in a year, the answer is "it depends".

You should let him remain SPL. After all, that is a troop-based requirement, not BSA policy. However, the rank advancement must be corrected. Great opportunity to teach fairness, truth and integrity.

Semper nailed it pretty well, it's all in how you present it. I like the approach of saying "This is your annual fees, but you can earn them if you want". We've talked about doing the mandatory fund raisers and have decided against it. Mainly because it hasn't been an issue for us. Interesting side-note. We've done a fund raiser every year - a food booth at a local community festival. We don't make a lot of money, but it gets us exposure and the boys enjoy it. We had one boy this year say he couldn't do it, he had "other plans". Well, his other plans was to go to the festival and hang out with his friends. The other guys in the troop saw him and were more than a little ticked off. This fellow later ran for PL and didn't win, and that was one of the reasons.

We have an annual overnighter after our Scouting For Food drive in November. We camp nearby, at a very accessible private facility. It has a bathroom, water, large firepit and all the firewood you can dream of. So, in other words, it's a "simple" campout. We invite the Webelos to come along. It's a great opportunity for them to get exposure to camping with the troop. It's not too scary for those who aren't very experienced at camping, and we can generate a lot of enthusiasm about Boy Scouts. The patrols camp on their own and the Webelos and parents camp with the troop leaders. We give them the choice of tenting with their buddies or with their parent - all within G2SS guidelines. We feed them with the troop leader's meal, so the patrols don't have to worry about the increased number. As for activities, we will do some teambuilding games. We will also do some orienteering practice to get the guys prepped for Klondike in January. Last year we did a disaster drill, using the Webelos as "victims". They had fun doing some basic moullage stuff to simulate injuries.