EagleInKY

There are some you cannot please, no matter how hard you may try. Best to wash your hands of it now and write off the financial loss as a payment to your peace-of-mind fund. Otherwise, you'll be paying for it with your sanity for years to come. BTDT (Been there, Done that).

This year we did a visitation with the convalesent patients at our local hospital, did some maintenance work for our CO, did an ecology project at summer camp, and participated in Scouting For Food. Looking back, it was a little light this year, we need to do better next year. We also helped the Rotary Club with their pancake breakfast, but they paid us for it. So, I can't really call it a service project.

Welcome to the campfire. It looks like you're bringing some excellent experiences with you. We look forward to getting to know you better.

My apologies Sue. I misread your post.

A lot of us are in - or have been in - similar situations. Mine was a new troop, but we had to be adult led in the beginning since most were just crossing over from Webelos. We're closing in on 3 years and they are doing pretty well. We're still not there yet, but we're making progress. I'd give us an A for effort and a B+ for execution on the boy-led part. However, I'd give us a C- on the patrol method. Our best leaders have made it to the troop level leadership and are doing a good job, we're still developing that second string of leaders to lead at the patrol level. They are coming, but it takes time. I think it takes at least 3 years to turn a troop around. If you think about it, that's about a "half-generation" of scouts. That makes sense when you think about it. You generally need to get the new kids developed to take on the senior roles, and that is going to take about 3 years.

I'll have to agree with Semper and disagree with Sue on this. Money-earning is allowed, even if the money is going to be donated. They just need to be up front with what they are doing. It's not a service project. Frankly, I'd rather them spend time earning money for the troop and performing real service for the charity.

I think this idea has merit. Maybe it could be combined with a few other ideas for a "do one of the following" requirements. Maybe, instead of for Eagle, it should be for Life. Good practice for the Eagle Project.

Guten tag. Welcome to the forum. We look forward to getting to know you and learning about how scouting is going in Germany.

Welcome to the campfire. Hope you enjoy your second time around.

Try to hang on, it sounds like you are trying to take things in the right direction. Semper gave you a great outline of a 10 step program to turn things around. He's given you some great advice, I encourage you to follow it. It does start with building some support, so his step #2, find a friend, is dead-on. Some comments about your post: "But, how am I supposed to work with a den leader that send me this message when I give him available training dates" "I will not be attending the Leader Training in December. It is my understanding that one leader from each Den needs to be certified for Recharter and my assistant has already attended training. She and I have worked together very well with our Den and are splitting up the time requirements." So I have a leader who absolutely refuses to get training. While I agree that everyone should get trained, at least you've got one trained person in the den. Maybe you should try to leverage that person more, since they seem to be willing to make the effort to do it right. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this. I had several boys who did not sell popcorn for the pack, so I am charging them for Boy's Life, charter, and dues. It is only fair, because these items are paid for by popcorn sales. Instead I get this: "I see that one of the items we will discuss at the next Leader's Meeting is about the scouts that did not sell any popcorn. I don't think we should punish anybody for choosing not to sell in our fundraiser by charging them dues or other fees. We all work as a Pack and have different strengths to contribute." I don't see this as penalizing them, if their parents would have put forth a little effort and sold some popcorn or even bought some, this wouldn't be necessary. This has been discussed several times before. I think it is perfectly valid for the Pack Committee to make a decision like this. Unfortunately, I don't think it's your decision to make alone. In reality, this should be communicated to the families before the popcorn sales, so they can make a decision. I personally prefer the approach of allocating a portion of their sales toward their annual fees. If they sell enough, they get off free. This encourages everyone to sell, and rewards those who generate the most income for the pack. Lastly, how am I supposed to work with a den leader whos wife gets upset, and calls and e-mails me repeatedly, because I will only hand out awards and prizes at pack meetings. I am trying to instill the things I have observed at a Pack my son was a part of a few years ago that I felt really knew what they were doing. I had the same problem when I took over a similarly struggling pack. No one would come to the pack meetings because they were boring. Den Leaders would pick up unclaimed awards and take them back to the den. I put a stop to it and told them that the only place they could receive their advancement was at the pack meeting. Attendance shot up (partly because of this, and mostly because they were more fun). I wish you luck. I hope things turn around. Keep us informed of the progress.

Our policy is that they have to use the standard package (block, wheels, axles) from the bsa kit. Anyone built from a non-BSA kit will be disqualified. Now, with the plethora of pre-cut kits out there, it is impossible to tell if it is one of these, so we trust them to be honest about it. We've had people come in with illegal tires and axles. We've made them switch them out for the standard BSA issue before weighing in. (The look on dad's face when you tell him that is priceless). Again, as for the polished & balanced BSA standard wheels and axles, we just have to trust them. Here's the bottom line, though. Technically, if they are product created from BSA kits, they aren't doing anything illegal. They are just putting the value of winning ahead of the time spent together with their son making the car. It's kind of sad & pathetic when you think about it.

Troop policy or not, the BSA Advancement Policy says that you can. My suggestion is that he go elsewhere, if there's someone qualified to work with him. I think he'll grow more by working with someone else. But don't let an artificial policy force that to happen.

As Hunt pointed out, they can submit to only work with youth from your unit. That will keep his/her name off the district list. As for the buddy system, that is non-negotiable. It doesn't have to be a scout, though. They could take a friend, parent or kid sister. As long as they are not 1-on-1 alone with the counselor.

Recruit someone. Maybe a veternarian, kennel owner, breeder, or mechanic (you did say "dog car" :-)). Once you find someone willing, they need to fill out a BSA leader app (no fee for MBCs, though) and a MBC application. Once they are approved, your son can work with them (with a buddy, of course).

I agree with Barry (no surprise). The SM needs to model this behavior for all the leaders in the troop. Delegating the discipline do an assistant makes it look like that is not really important, and discipline is only enforced with that ASM is around. I've seen troops where the SM is the biggest kid in the group. Some of these will have an ASM that does the discplining. But, in most I've seen, the ASM who does the discplining ends up going to another troop. No one likes to be seen as the "bad guy" by the boys all the time. As much as I hate to do it, I am the first disciplinarian in the troop. (Don't confuse that with the first line of discpline, which should be the boy leaders). While I try to have fun with the guys, and certainly do, they know that there is a line they can't cross. The SM needs to lead this from the top, and use his assistants to support him and complement his personality/skills. We have one ASM we call "Tough Love", and he's earned that nickname several times. He's a stricter disciplinarian than me. I sometimes have to get him to back down a little bit. But when I'm not around, I know that old "TL" will make sure things don't get out of line. Then we have "Teflon". Nothing gets to him. The kids could be tying another kid to a stake and he'd say "aw, com'on guys, let's not do that now". He's fun to have around, but I'm always cautious if he's the only adult around. The SM's primary role is to back up the SPL and the youth leaders. When they can't control the group, or have a particular discipline problem, that's when he steps in. When the boys realize that the adults will back up the SPL, they learn to listen to him much more.

Welcome to the forum. We look forward to some great mile-high advice from you.

Anarchist, I agree wholeheartedly with your post. The PLC is responsible for planning troop meetings. We target one "special" meeting for Webelos recruitment. We had 11 of 12 visit this past week. They had some fun activities and interesting things to do. Next week, however, they're primarily working on planning a campout (duty rosters, menus, etc.) and working on some First Aid review. Not near as interesting, but just as important to the troop. I tell the Webelos leaders and parents that they are always welcome to visit the troop, but it's best that they call ahead to find out if it's a meeting they'll want to visit. On a sidenote, the age appropriate guidelines says "Camporees", not "Klondikes". I've never seen in writing that Webelos cannot participate/visit a Klondike. I guess you could extrapolate that if a Camporee is forbidden, then so should a Klondike. We invite 2nd year Webelos to participate in Klondike (yes, I said "participate"). Every year a few of them will brave the cold and come out and participate on the sleds. Some will even camp out. We ask them (the parents, really) to make their own decision about whether they think their son is mature enough to handle the event and whether they are mature enough to camp out. We justify it based upon 2 points. First, the age-appropriate guidelines are just that, "guidelines". They are not absolute, although certainly something we should follow as much as possible. Second, the 2nd year Webelos have completed their AoL, reached the age that they can join scouting, and are frankly just waiting for B&G (a month later) to cross over. If they chose to go ahead and cross over, they would meet all of the qualifications to do so. So, we're not letting them participate because of the patch on their pocket??? Sorry, that's too legalistic for me. By the time Klondike rolls around, these guys have visited a couple of troop meetings, gone camping with us, gone to Webelos camp, done a couple of service projects with us,.... I'm not going to tell a boy that's excited about Boy Scouts that he's got to wait a year because of a ceremony he hasn't gone through. Sorry, rant off.

Our Web 2 dues are slightly less as well. They are not pro-rated, however. In addition to the normal AoL regalia, we give them a Boy Scout Handbook and a gift when they crossover. So, we easily spend the money on them during the year. Also, the point about the fact that the pack pays for their entire year of BSA registration is important to point out. Some troops do not charge anything for scouts when they bridge, others charge a fee. I know it varies. So, this could be the only fees they pay for the year. That said, $75 does seem a little high.

And another.... www.boyscouttrail.com

"I had rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I am not. " I like that quote. Not that fff wants his wife to hate him, but I think there is something about being true to your values. Yes, try to convince her of the great things scouting provides. But stay true to who you are. I hope, in the end, she'll love you for it.

A certain amount of training can be expected of everyone. We expect all "contact" leaders to get YPT, hands down, no excuses. We also expect anyone who goes on campouts to take it, whether they are registered or not. Anyone with access to the web can do it easily. Or, arrange for it to be done in a group setting at some point. I think you should also expect the Fast Start and NLE for all. These are so simple, you can incorporate them into your committee meetings. Take the first 15 minutes of the first meeting to do Fast Start. Take 1/2 hour of the next meeting to do NLE. etc. (I may not have the times exactly right, but you get the idea).

Good observation SA.

Kristi- Are you talking about a pack or troop? I'm assuming pack. Some common positions for either would be: Assistant Committee Chair (CC in training, back them up, etc.) Treasurer Fund Raising Chair (don't make the CM & the Treasurer do this) Activities Chair Training Chair (responsible for training all adult leaders) In the pack, I'd also add in: Pinewood Derby Chair B&G Banquet Chair Camping/outdoor events Chair How's that for a start?

During SM conferences, I always ask a scout how he lives by the Scout Oath and Law. Sometimes I get good answers, often not. I try to help them understand how they do, by pointing out things I've seen. I used the Scout Law Scavenger Hunt this past Summer Camp. It was a great game for the boys. We got some really good answers back. On Friday, at Parent's night, I recognized the scout that gave the best examples of how he lived by the Law during the week. Lisa, I don't hold a scout back for normal "youthful discretions", but I will hold a boy back if he routinely demonstrates willful breaking of the oath or law. Usually this is with a lad that shows tremendous disrespect to adults or peers. Fighting, bad language or bad sportsmanship can also cause me to hold him back. When I do hold a scout back, I give him clear understanding of the things he is doing that I see as wrong. Often, I've found the scout doesn't have a clue. Usually because parent's are disciplining him at home at the same level we expect on a scout outing.

Nice.