EagleInKY

I feel a squelch coming on.

I believe your "world view" of scouting is limited to your own personal identity. If you venture outside of Cleveland, you'll find areas where folks are both white collar and blue collar, living in harmony. Our troop reflects the makeup of our community. It's probably 50%-60% white collar, 25% blue collar, the rest are military, retired, or stay at home.

Let your son decide, with your advice of course. It's really too hard to tell from your post. There's too much info that we don't have. Just one comment about going "out of district" from a school pov. We have one scout that is in a different school district. He's never had an issue fitting in, even though he joined in with 10 boys who had been together for years in Cubs. The down side is when the troop schedules something that doesn't coincide with his school schedule. That can be a downer if he can't participate because of a different holiday schedule.

Hey WC. Actually there is a new sylabus you may want to take a look at. It's for Troop-level YLT. It's based upon the same framework as the NYLT class and is supposed to be a pre-req. Just to warn you, the sylabus is very light. They've given you (the SM) a great deal of flexibility in how to organize it. There are a number of good JLT sources out there. I've posted links to some of them in the past. I'll find those and post them again. In general, I like your approach. It's similar to what I've been trying to build. It's difficult to get it scheduled twice a year, so I'm looking at a "big" weekend and a "small" weekend as an option. I'll be looking for other's thoughts as well.

I love the charge. I still can hear "you are a marked man" echoing in my ears. Traditions like this are great, please keep it.

Semper's points are very good. I think he nailed the key things. As for us, we've been in existence for three years. The first two years we did not lose a single first year scout. This year we've lost one, and will probably lose one or two more. The one we lost and the one I'm sure we'll lose are both very involved in sports. The parents really push them hard on sports and think of scouts as a secondary (filler) activity. As their sports have taken more time, scouts have taken a back seat. In nearly every case of a kid dropping out, I've seen at least one parent encouraging that to happen in the background. Usually, one parent will like scouts and the other will prefer the alternative activity. It seems to depend on who has more pull at home as to which happens.

Welcome. Glad to have you on the forum. We hope to get to know you throughout your scouting experience. May it be long and prosperous for you and your family.

Semper my friend, it looks like you got married 364 days ahead of us. We had our 19th the day before your 20th. Did you do anything big this year? I'm thinking about surprising mine with a cruise. (Gee, I hope she doesn't read these). :-) My wife has never been a registered scouter, but she's my number one supporter. My son and my dad are a close second. She does help running some things and has been a merit badge counselor. Most importantly, she's there when I need her. When I'm down she boosts me up. When I'm confused, she helps me straighten things out. When I'm at my wits end, she finds me some more wit. Scouting can put a strain on the relationship at times. The time requirement alone takes its toll. I don't think I'd be able to justify it if my son were not involved and loving it. All my best to you and your lovely bride.

We use the mesh closet shelves that you can easily get at hardware stores. Wire is strung from the beams to the shelves for support. This adds very little weight to the trailer and allows for us to stack tents, tarps and light- to mid-weight items on them. We built in some wood boxes down the side for storage, and then stack heavy items on top of them during transit. We've played a little with weight distribution, and it's never really been a problem. If you have two axles, you shouldn't have much concern, as long as the weight is distributed throughout.

The committee is responsible for making sure the program that is planned and carried out by the PLC and under the oversight of the SM, falls within safe scouting standards as well as their own "sanity check". In this case, I think it depends upon how harsh of conditions you guys have to deal with, and the caliber of training you are able to provide in the troop. In general, I think your plan would work, and I would support it. So, yes the committee has a right to understand what you are doing. As long as reasonable precautions are being made and you are within the G2SS, I would think they should be okay.

E - Good point. One lad has fit right in. Showed up at camp as a total stranger. He had visited one troop meeting a few months earlier. Family moved into town that weekend and he came straight to camp with us. He was a first year scout, and had been in Boy Scouts for a few months. The other lad visited a troop meeting about two weeks before Summer Camp. He decided to join and go to camp with us. He'd never been in scouts. The parents still don't understand what Scouting is for. They look at it as just a social outlet for their son (who is pretty intraverted). So, he shows up about once a month, has gone on a couple of campouts, and is still a ways away from Tenderfoot. Both are work in progress, but one has progressed much faster. How's that?

The situation I know about is that troops in our council were told a few years ago (maybe as many as 5 years ago) that any campout longer than 4 days is considerd a long term camp. It then falls under the same regulations as council summer camps. They had to get a camp director and aquatics director certified through National Camp School. I believe the first year or two they "hired" the council's directors to play the role. I'm not positive about this, but I think they were primarily "paper positions", in that they didn't oversee every aspect of the day-to-day. They assisted with the planning and coordination and then left the day-to-day operations up to the troop. The last time I heard, the troop had two people that were going to get the certification. This was a couple of years ago. I don't know if all of this panned out as it was planned. I haven't spoken to anyone in that group about their summer camp in a couple of years. I'll see what I can find out.

Ideally, I like to see them cross over by March or April. This gives them the chance to get a couple of campouts under their belts. They also get a chance to know the older guys a little bit before heading off to camp. With that said, I've had two scouts go to summer camp immediately after joining. One went well and fit right in, the other is still work in progress.

Running your own summer camp is very challenging. I'm familiar with a troop that does just that. They are required to have a trained camp director and aquatics director, just like any Boy Scout camp, which created a problem a few years ago when that rule came out. Now that they've got the certified people, it's no problem.

I believe the Lincoln Heritage Council does. You should be able to contact them through their website. www.lhcbsa.org

I don't think it has to do with the council, it is optional and offered by a 3rd party. When I was CM, we did not have to get it for the adult partners, only the "real" leaders.

Wow, certainly is confusing. I was about to ask some of the same questions. One point, the Committee Chair is not supposed to hold a den leader position. The Committee Chair should be making sure the pack and den leadership has what they need to be successful. The cubmaster should focus on coordinating the "pack" program and functions. This means a lot of interaction with the den leaders to carry that off. Perhaps you need to look at revisiting your structure. If two of three "units" are struggling, maybe you should look at combining them a different way. Are the towns so far apart that people couldn't travel to them for den meetings? A pack of 50 boys with 3 of each type of den (Tiger, Wolf, Bear, WebI and WebII) seems highly fragmented. If I do the math right, that sounds like about 3 or 4 boys per den at each unit. A pack of 50 could probably get by with one of each age group (maybe two of the younger ones). You are so fragmented, you must be having trouble getting volunteers. If you had 2 Tiger, 2 Wolf, 1 Bear, 1 WebI and 1 WebII, you would only need 7 leaders instead of 15. That's a 50% reduction. Now you can be much more successful with higher caliber leaders.

ditto Ed's and scoutldr's comments.

Welcome. We look forward to getting to know you better at our virtual roundtable.

scoutldr - My point exactly. That's why we leave it up to the parents of the Webelos. We've had Klondike's here in Kentucky where the guys were wearing shorts! I don't think camping in 60 degree weather is a risk. In fact, it's safer than Webelos Resident Camp (which typically has temps well into the 90s). Each year it is a judgement call - depending upon the weather forecast, the maturity of the scout, and the level of preparation.

NWS summarized the Eagle BOR policies pretty well. An ASM or SM could certainly serve on a BOR for a scout in a different troop. I have done this. frankj - You need to get your committee a copy of the advancement guidelines. ASM and SM are not permitted to participate in BORs in their own troop. The primary reason, I believe, is so the committee can adequately evaluate the troop program through the eyes of the scout. If they ask questions like "How do you like Boy Scouts?" or "Are you having fun on the campouts?", the scout may feel awkward voicing a complaint/concern if the SM is present. While there are times I'd love to hear what is said in the BORs, I appreciate the feedback (both good and not so good) that I get from the advancement chair after the BOR.

From those opposed to including Webelos in Klondikes, these are the two G2SS guidelines I've heard quoted: - The Age appropriate guidelines stipulate that Camporees should be "visit only" for Webelos. Since the Klondike is a winter version of a camporee, the same prohibition should apply. - The Age appropriate guidelines stipulate that Webelos should not participate in Winter Camping. Personally, I invite our Webelos 2 guys to participate (overnight or just for the day) in our Klondike. I leave it up to them (their parents) to decide if they have the maturity and physical ability to handle it. My reasoning is two-fold: - One, the BSA does not specifically rule out Klondike Derby's, so I don't feel like I'm breaking any rules. Furthermore, I've found that the definition of "winter camping" varies from individual to individual. For me, harsh weather is temps in the teens or below. But for some, it's anything less than 40. Others may not want to camp any anything less than 50. While our Alaskan friends laugh at us for complaining about anything north of 0 degrees. - Two, Webelos 2 scouts in Jan/Feb are just weeks from becoming full-blown Boy Scouts. In most cases, they've earned their AOL and are just waiting for the crossover ceremony. That's usually done in February (at B&G) or in March. I hate to tell a potential scout that he can't participate just because he hasn't gone through a ceremony. As for safety, we go over Winter Camping basics with the Webelos before the campout. We try to make sure they have the proper gear. We'll loan them things if we can. For example, I always take some extra wool socks for the kids that show up with cotton. Safety first: we have pulled up stakes and left after the competition the last two yeras. Two years ago the race took place during a freezing rain storm. After about five hours, the guys were totally miserable. Temps were expected to drop to around 20 degrees and a few inches of snow was expected. I and the other leaders (district and other troops) felt it was wise to call it, so we did. Last year we got about 4 inches of snow during the day, which was no problem. The guys loved it. Unfortunately, the temp was dropping to around 0 that night. I felt that was pushing it - even for me. Again, the district and troop leaders agreed to call it early. A few brave (foolish) souls braved the cold, but not this guy.

Fred, (Sorry for the delayed response) I learned of the limit a week or so before the trip. I actually stumbled across it as we were looking at different alternatives for the hike. I had never heard it before, even though I had hiked there many times, so I was pretty sure that it was not strictly enforced. We ran across a ranger as we were choosing a campsite and he didn't say anything to us. Actually, I'm not sure about how two-deep fits into this. I wanted a third, just in case we had a problem where one of us had to back out at the last minute. Would we have had to have two adults with each group? If so, then we would have had to find two additional adults. Considering the fact that I was unsuccessful recruiting a third, that certainly presents a problem.

Not as a charity. Little Johnny can go out and mow yards to make money to pay for scouts, but his customers can't write it off as a charitable contribution.

True Fred, but if this becomes a trend, it will be more and more difficult for scout units to participate in backpacking adventures. We recently had a backpacking trip with our older scouts. There were seven of them, and two adults. According to the rules, we were over sized by one. Who are we going to ask to not go? It can't be an adult. Since most patrols are made up of about 7 or 8 boys, it will be difficult to do it, unless we let them go without adult leadership. An option, yes, but not likely to fit all situations.