EagleInKY

Ours our scheduled for 90 minutes. Occasionally we run over, seldom do we run short. We're trying to drive more and more into the patrol structure. While there will always be the need for some age/experience based stuff, we want to do as much as we can in a patrol setting. Once week a month we do not hold a regular troop meeting. On those nights, the patrols meet. This gives the PL a chance to run a meeting, start to finish. We've had challenges getting this to work, but we're going to continue to work on it this year. We're getting ready to start a new round of leaders, so we'll see how it develops.

JD - While I've seen it done many times, I do think it violates copyright laws. Our local Middle School does a "memories" CD every year and charges for it. It's loaded with copied music. I'm quite sure they aren't paying any copyright fees. (It's kind of ironic that a school does this, since it's the music industries form of plagiarism). I would suggest you consider the "snippets" route. I believe that you are generally covered there. Now, there could be a debate on how much a "snippet" is. I would guess that something more than one verse is not a snippet. But I don't know if that's ever been defined.

We wear ours to troop meetings, courts of honor, color guards, etc. We do not wear them on campouts or other outdoor outings. At Summer Camp we'll only wear them to the opening/closing campfires (if the temp is reasonable) and when we're the camp color guard.

Welcome to the forum. Your English is fine, by the way. (It's better than some of the folks who actually use it every day!) You face a typical problem of someone starting a new unit. You have to first model for them what a good Patrol Leader and Senior Patrol Leader does. Then, over time, you gradually step away, and let the boys fill the void you leave. During our first year as a troop, I or my assistant often did the job of SPL. But, we were always open about it. We'd say "we're doing this for you now, but soon you'll have to do it for yourself". As for balancing time between troop and patrols, we try to provide time for each in our meetings. We also allow for some age-based work as well. For example, we could have first year guys working on some scout skills, while some second years are working on planning an upcoming Court of Honor. Meanwhile, some older scouts are talking with an assistant Scoutmaster about their Eagle project plans. We generally follow the "template" from the BSA. Pre-opening (game/gathering activity) Opening Skills instruction (can be age/experience-based, patrol-based, or sometimes the entire troop). Patrol Meetings (prep for upcoming events, give info, etc.) Interpatrol activity (some type of game or competition. Closing

I agree that some treat it with a level of "secrecy" that doesn't make sense. IMHO, I consider it more of a private, personal subject than some top secret mission. The first reason I see it as personal is that may not make sense to others. For example, I had a ticket item similar to Eagle-pete's. It was focused on helping the committee better understand their role. It included several things, the highlight being getting them trained. This has had a dramatic impact on the troop and the committee is much more effective now. But if I just said that a ticket item was to get our troop committee trained, some may look at that as a pretty insignificant accomplishment. The second reason that I consider it private is that I have worked my ticket without telling them what I was doing. For example, on this item related to the troop committee, I didn't tell them that I needed them to do this because "it's for my Woodbadge Ticket". I took the time to sell them on the need to better understand their role as the Troop Committee. This led to several discussions and a series of steps that we put together as a committee. As it turned out, the steps of that plan closely mirrored my ticket item (imagine that!). The committee members have much more embraced the idea because they were part of formulating the plan, not just participating so I can check off a ticket item.

I didn't get the "you don't get to vote" idea either. Our committee meetings are - in essence - parent's meetings. We discuss upcoming calendar, advancement status, financial status, fund-raising, etc. Very few decisions are made by the committee. They mainly are there to review and approve the program designed by the PLC and to make sure the resources (money, equipment, people) are there to help make it happen. The main reason I hear folks say for being on the committee is participating in Boards of Review. Some of our adults really enjoy this interaction with the kids. My opinion is that if you want to work with the kids and the SM to deliver the program, become an ASM. If you want to work in the background, as an enabler to the program, and like the idea of participating in BORs, join the Committee. Unfortunately, you can't do both, so you have to make a choice.

I agree with Fred. The hidden jewel of Woodbadge is the many ticket items that are done for units. Personally, I feel that my ticket items have made my unit stronger and my job much easier (because we're doing things right now). And no one from my unit knows what they are. They know that they were done, but they don't know that they were my ticket items. Woodbadge doesn't make you a great scouter. In fact, a couple of the worst scouters I know were WB-ers. But Woodbadge does make great scouting. That's why you should go.

Sure Barry... I've heard that one before. Now we know the truth. Kudo is your alternate personality... :-) It's nice knowing both of you! ;-)

I've been out of the pack for 3 years, but still am the Committee Chairman. After 4 1/2 years as Cubmaster, they felt I had some value to add. It is true that I am able to explain to them why certain things have been done over the years, and also try to keep some unit traditions going. When the Cubmaster that followed me decided to start doing things "his way" and ruffled lots of feathers, I was there to help settle things down after the dust settled. When he eventually stepped down, I helped the new Cubmaster transition. Of course, he is more interested in how I did things than his predecessor. So, for the purposes of continuity and history, I think it's a great thing to.

September 10-12 and October 2-4, 2005 Colonial Virginia Council. It landed awfully close, I was in SR-606.

I believe the easiest way is to locate the council he received the Eagle in and contact them. Of course, many councils have merged and changed names, so that may be a challenge. I would start with the town he was in, and go to the council that services that area today. I believe national has records as well, but it will be much more of a needle in a haystack there. Another reference might be NESA (National Eagle Socut Association).

Didn't see anyone mention anything like UnderArmor. I have these for my fitness wear, and was wondering if they would make a good base layer next to my skin because of the compression factor. They are great for a base layer during the day. As I mentioned, I don't wear anything on my legs at night, but I do wear a shirt. I would think it would work well for that. Also, nobody mentioned putting my bag inside another bag. Is this a good idea? I would put it under my winter bag, not around it. I think you'll get more insulating value by adding the barrier between you and the ground. That's been my experience.

I had heard of the Cheat and Yough, but didn't know anything about them. I've been trying to find out more on the web since Semper's post, but haven't found a whole lot of info. The river isn't even marked well on some of the online maps. It looks like the upper Yough is pretty tough, one outfitter said you must be 18 and up. Semper, how do the outfitters compare to ACE in West Virginia? You certainly recommended an outstanding group there. I'll have to give this idea to our PLC. It's certainly a possibility for an adventure trip down the road.

When you take Woodbadge, you are encouraged to look inward and develop your own ticket. (The ticket is a set of objectives that you have 18 months to complete.) Since each ticket is personal and tailored to your individual needs, it is encouraged to keep your ticket somewhat private and to allow each participant to go through the process of developing their ticket. The Woodbadge site has some good information, for specifics about tickets, go here: http://www.woodbadge.org/WB21/wb21ticket.htm

Welcome. It's great to have folks that bring an international perspective to the conversation. I hope you enjoy your time here.

I would go ahead and have two patrols, especailly since you've added two more scouts. Our first patrols had 4 and 5 scouts in them. But it allowed to function in a patrol system moreso than if we had just one patrol.

Since the troop normally uses the patrol system, I wonder if there is a purpose behind it that you don't understand. For example, I know of troops doing "survival" campouts this style. The boys have to act as though they are on their own (with their buddy) and build a shelter and feed themselves for the night. So, before we convict the Scoutmaster of doing something wrong, why don't we try and find out if there is more to the story. Also, if the troop is run correctly, this was a PLC decision, not the SM. Maybe the SM is letting them do it, so they'll see why we use the Patrol System. Remember, some of our best lessons come from our mistakes. We try to allow them boys to make mistakes in a controled environment.

There are certainly no "rules" about how to go about obtaining food for campouts. It's perfectly reasonable to bring smaller portions of some items (like Ketchup) that are "donated". I don't think it's worth any complicated measurements. Just, whoever is responsible for the food for the campout should look for ways to avoid making purchases that will create waste. Typically, if the menu calls for something like an unusual spice or a teaspoon of something, we'll bring it from home. Otherwise, your scout food boxes get overrun with one-time-use items that will eventually go bad. Of course, one of my favorite food purchase stories was when the shopping list said 4 things of Lipton Onion Soup (for spicing up hobos) and the guy doing the shopping bought 4 boxes of 10! We're still using Lipton Onion Soup! You know, it can be used in just about anything, even omelettes. Finally, the idea of having guys grab ketchup packets from McDs and other food places could create an ethical issue in my mind. While I have no issue of saving the "extras" that are thrown in the bag, I could see the ever exuberant young scout stuffing his pockets with ketchup packets in order to fulfill the need for the next campout. That, as small as it might be, is a form of theft. So, be careful on what you encourage them to do.

Congrats and good luck in this role. You can do lots of great things, and you're starting at a good point. If you wait a year or two before trying to start these things, it will be much harder to implement. I would move ahead on getting the patrol system going. Given your size, I would probably scrap the "New Scout Patrol" concept this year. I would get them to split into two mixed-age patrols, of 5-6 each. I would also have them elect an SPL. Your PLs could act as ASPL, if you didn't want to take any more out of the patrols. And, yes, I would definitely have PLs as well. If you are going to sacrifice positions, do so with positions like Librarian, not Patrol Leaders. As for NSP activities, I would just peel the first year guys out of the patrol when you are working on first year stuff. The four of them can group together when they are working on advancement, and then return to their patrol structure for other activities. It's not perfect, but I think it would work best for you this year. Then, next year you can start the NSP.

Staple Gun? Duct Tape? But seriously, we have an "engraving night" shortly after crossover in the spring. We'll bring engravers and have the guys bring in the stuff they need engraved. It's probably not a bad idea to do that a couple of times a year.

We've found that taking post-trip surveys is a great way of getting feedback and driving change. If a large percentage of people complain about the site, you have all you need to justify changing. And that's without getting into all the safe scouting issues that may be looming there anyway.

Last summer I had two fun whitewater trips. First, the family did the Snake River out of Jackson Hole. Mostly Class IIs and IIIs. The water is cold, so you can't (don't want to) get in. There are stretches of calm water between the rapids. A fun time, and not too stressful for those unsure about doing whitewater. Our troop did the Lower New River in West Virginia in August. The New was running low, so the Class IVs and Vs had lost a little of their teeth. But overall, it was a tremendous challenge. I can't think of a set of rapids more fun that the Keeney Brothers. And the Double Z provides more challenges than you'll find on just about any stretch of whitewater. http://www.troop153bsa.org/album/2005-New%20River%20Trip.asp

Welcome, I'm glad you joined our campfire. As someone who started a small troop a few years ago, I'll try to help however possible. Good luck to you.

Calico gave a great explanation. I will disagree with or add to a couple of his thoughts. First, wearing clothes to bed. It took me years to listen to those that told me that "less is more". I kept freezing at night, even putting on clean dry layers. Now, I don't sleep with anything other than underwear from the waste down. To buy into this, you have to understand where your body heat comes from. It's primarily generated from your muscles. And, for most of us, the biggest muscles are in our thighs. If you cover them up with a layer or two, you are limiting that heat to only helping that area. Your arms, hands, toes and head have much less muscle mass, not near enough to generate the heat to stay confortable, so they need to share heat with your legs to stay warm. So, even though it is counterintuitive, wear less to stay warm. Second, personally, I don't like putting my head inside my mummy bag. Breathing into it creates more moisture inside the bag, which makes you colder. I snug it up over my shoulders and leave my head out. I wear a wool cap to keep my head and ears warm. A little heat sneaks out of the bag, but that helps keep my neck and face warm. Third, put more under you than over you. In winter, I'll use two thin pads. One is a thermarest and the other is a close cell foam. The two together get me up off the ground so that it can't absorb my body heat. I'll also often take my summer bag and put it under me to give me some more insulation between myself and the ground. Fourth, If it's really cold, I'll take a small fleece blanket and line my sleeping bag with it. That will give you another 10 degrees of comfort. Fifth, I'll toss a couple of hand warmers down around my toes. Now, you want to put them where you won't roll on top of them. I've done that. They get hotter than you think. But they give you a little toasty warmth around the toes. Finally, Regarding your bag, don't keep it stuffed between campouts. Stuffing a bag compresses the insulating layers together so that they lose all insulating value. Compress it into the bag before your trip, and then lay it out and fluff it up a bit when you set up your tent. This will allow the insulating layers to fill back up with air, which gives you the insulation you need. One fall campout I nearly froze in 40 degree weather because I had left my winter bag stuffed from the previous winter. It makes a huge difference. Best of luck. This is a great discussion.

Welcome to the forum. We look forward to getting to know you better.