EagleInKY

Returning to Camp Crooked Creek, our council camp. We discussed going out of council, but the guys like it and wanted to stay.

I'll also echo the other comments. I would try to limit it to 2 or 3. I would base it on a couple of things. When I was Cubmaster, I did this unofficially. We looked at (1) what has been the retention success of our previous Webelos, and (2) which ones follow the "scout" program. We found that the big troop that everyone held up as the perfect program had a horrible retention record with the boys from our pack. At least 90% dropped out the first year. I also came to realize that it was a Merit Badge mill that was mainly in the business of cranking kids through to Eagle. Our guys were seen as "outsiders" and were never felt welcome once they came on board. But, boy, did their troop look impressive to the parents that visited. So, I would find 2 or 3 troops that have a proven track record and focus on them. If there is a boy in the den that has an interest in a particular troop, I would add them to the list.

Ditto, we leave it up to them. We use an NSP, so it's not an issue the first year. We've had some brothers that want to be together, others have not.

Welcome to our campfire. Pull up a log and stay a while.

Semper is absolutely correct that it is a long-term relationship. Don't fret over one year's bump. I have to remind myself of that this year as we are having a similar issue. Several of our Webs are going to another troop or not going at all. I'm pretty sure that a disgruntled parent in our troop has been filling the ear of the Web II leader. He denies it, but I can't help but be suspicious. They work together and he parrots some of the same comments that this parent would make. Anyway, I'm trying not to fret too much and remember that our relationship is much stronger than this one den. We've got great relations with several of the den leaders as well as several family ties into the pack. We'll keep caring and feeding the relationship and hope for better results next year.

I hadn't read this post before now, I assumed it had to do with filling out some form with council or something. Wow, I think we've got problems with the adults not accepting the concept of a boy-run program. I remember when we first started our troop, I was always concerned if I had to miss. In fact, I did everything I could not to miss because the meetings could not go on without me. Of course, back then our young guys didn't know how to lead anything. Now, if I'm not going to be at the meeting, I make sure the SPL knows. I usually try to remember to tell the ASMs as well. But, I've been known to remember at the last minute and call them only to say "the SPLs got it under control".... Gotta admit, this past year we've become very boy run, and I truly feel like the laziest guy in the troop. I know I do a lot of things behind the scenes, but the boys are making it happen when it counts. Anyway, I haven't given you much advice other than work on your adult leaders and get them to understand what a boy-run unit looks like.

I used the new material for our troop leader training in December. My results are similar to AvidSM. I believe the guys enjoyed it more than the previous format and maybe took home a little more practical material. We finished the day with pizza for lunch and then the PLC stayed for the afternoon to work on the annual plan. I did not do the SM Conferences because we held it before elections. I'll be following up with the guys over the next month now that we've had then. I agree that the material is very light. For a SM without experience, it doesn't help a whole lot. I supplemented the material with games and activities from past experience. Fortunately, I've got the experience of several JLTs, Woodbadge or other leadership development activities to pull from. I'm thinking about putting together some supplementary material and posting it on a website. If I could only find the time... :-) .

Our SPL (and sometimes ASPL) occasionally attends part of the committee meeting. Usually it's at the beginning, and it's just to review any questions about the upcoming schedule. In one of the Boy Scout training videos - I believe it's Fast Start - it actually shows the SM and SPL attending the committee meeting to represent the program side of the discussion.

Readers can rank posts as good or not-so-good. You didn't have any votes, so I gave you a thumbs up for asking the question. Now you show 100% thumbs up. I don't think anyone pays much attention to them, framkly.

And here I thought it was going to be a religious post... Nice story. It's great to step back and see the bigger picture.

" Had a youth in the troop that picked fights with anyone. He even would hit adults from behind." srisom, I had a similar experience. This scout verbally abused me (SM) on several occasions. Physical violence against another scout only happened once. After a very public, profanity-laden tirade at a scout meeting (aimed at me and the PLC), I called the mom and asked him to leave. He's now with another troop, but I don't think his attitude is any better. All I can say is to echo scoutingagain's comment: "The unit has since run much smoother and frankly has been more fun. "

We're at our semi-annual election time as well. We're also realigning patrols - along the lines of the boys preferences. The new scouts from this past year are getting integrated into the regular patrols. We have some really sharp guys in this group, some that will surely be leaders of the troop in a couple of years. I was really disappointed in how few of them through their name in the hat for PL or for any of the troop positions. I pulled a couple of them over to the side to really encourage them to ask for a leadership position, but to no avail. They still feel like the "little guys" in the troop. I guess they'll start to feel older in a few weeks when the Webelos cross over. At least I hope that's the case.

Our Klondike Derby used to require a minimum and maximum (6-8) on a sled. If you had a great turnout (i.e. 9 boys from one patrol) or a poor turnout, you had to adjust your lineup. I always grumbled about this rule as being "anti-patrol method". This year the rule was eliminated. And, a sled with less than six boys did not have to have a "lame dog" (rider). This encouraged more smaller groups to participate. Groups with more than eight could only have seven pushing/pulling the sled. The extras had to run along behind. I'm glad we made that change. Nevertheless, I still know that several groups did the vitual patrol thing. We had one patrol that only had two scouts. So we put one with each of our other two patrols. Another troop combined three patrols into one sled.

Mike, I have seen that they are more flexible with the timing of the BOR. While there is a deadline, national will waive it for a variety of reasons (going off to college, military, etc.). For example, there was a lad in our district that went off to Basic Training shortly after his 18th birthday. He didn't have his BOR until he was nearly 19. I think he had a good excuse, though.

Unless someone could convince me that there was an overriding factor (eg. went off of medication, etc.), I would ask for this scout to be expelled from our troop. Secondly, I would notify the Scout Executive of the action and cause. Third, if the youth joined another troop I would make sure their leaders knew the background. Now don't get me wrong. I'm not one of these nuts who believes in expelling a 1st grader for bringing a toy gun to school or flipping up a girls skirt. I believe in fair treatment for those that behave improperly. But, it's as simple as this. We're volunteers. We're not psychiatrists, police officers or wardens. We are out there to have fun and help kids grow and succeed. Doing so while worrying if this kid is going to go off the deep end and pull a real gun the next time is not how I want to spend my one hour a week.

SMs be honest, how many of you were told that "johnny is going to become a den chief for his younger brothers den" by Johnny's parents? It hasn't happened. Probably because they know DLs have to be approved via the process like you stated. Now, I have known scouts to "act" like a Den Chief for their brother's den. But it's been unofficial.

Ron, No one said they couldn't. The question was whether he could go as the only adult with them.

SA - I have had scouts have to wait for POR time before advancing. Notice I did not say "I held them back". I didn't hold them back, they did themselves. Every scout that I have seen that did not get a POR that he wanted was because he hadn't pulled his weight in previous assignments. For example, I had a scout that only wanted to be Librarian because it was "easy". The SPL chose someone who would actually take the job seriously and try to improve how we track books. I had another scout who had to wait six months for Life because he had wanted one particular POR (PL) and his patrol didn't elect him. He didn't want to do anything but PL. Next time around, when he wasn't elected again, he settled for another POR. My point is this, if you have a lazy scout that suddenly wants a POR, we don't have an obligation to "give" him one to check off his requirement. I realize that isn't exactly what you are saying, but it is what I've heard some parents say.

Beavah.... I hate to tell ya this, but you are mistaken. I didn't know this eithah until someone pointed it out to me. The Star requirement reads: While a First Class Scout, serve actively 4 months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility (or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop). (it then lists all the PORs). Here's the entired text of the Eagle requirement: While a Life Scout, serve actively for a period of 6 months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility: Boy Scout troop: Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, or instructor. Varsity Scout team: Captain, cocaptain, program manager, squad leader, team secretary, Order of the Arrow team representative, librarian, historian, quartermaster, chaplain aide, instructor, or den chief. Venturing crew / Sea Scout ship: President, vice president, secretary, treasurer, boatswain, boatswain's mate, yeoman, purser, or storekeeper. Did ya notice what was missing? There is no "or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop". I do not think this is an oversight. I believe the intention is to make sure the scouts coming before the Eagle Board of Review have successfully fulfilled a term in office for one of the real, documented positions.

Welcome. You're knowledge is very much needed. LDS questions come up from time-to-time and many of us don't have the answers.

Ed, I would say you agree with hellomom more than Beaver. You said your son "wasn't at every meeting or outing but he did make time for Scouts and he earned his Eagle". That's what she is saying too. He comes as much as he can. Look at her numbers. He's gone on eight campouts, summer camp, two hikes and Philmont. This is far from an inactive scout. Heck, I've seen "active" scouts that haven't been that active, and they didn't have an excuse.

Oh, this subject gets bantered around a lot. Based on your description, I would probably sign off on your son. It sounds like he's trying to be as active as he can, given a very active and balanced lifestyle. While we would all love 110% dedicated scouts who never miss a thing, we have to be realistic in today's over-programed world. Work with your SM and try to negotiate a reasonable compromise. Maybe your son can step up and help do something special, like organize an event for the new scouts coming up.

hotdesk makes a good point, you can create special positions (although they are NOT valid for Eagle). Also, multiples is a good idea. Finally, and this is a little harsh, I've seen that the kids who don't get chosen are the ones who are lazy and don't want to do the job. They are just going through the motions and the SPL knows it. Perhaps they need to prove that they have what it takes so they'll get chosen next time.

As long as the unit can afford it, why ask questions? I'm not going to try and judge the financial well-being of someone else based upon the car their parent drives. If someone tells me they can't make ends meet for camp, we'll do what we can to help them. We go to the council first, and see what camperships they can get. After that, we'll help if needed.

Yes, 2 deep leadership is for the outing, not for each activity within the outing. What does apply is the limitation on 1-on-1 contact. So, as long as multiple boys are going on the hike, the leader is okay to go with them alone. Also, some common sense has to apply. I'm assuming this is a couple of miles around the lake. If it were a 10 mile hike, I would suggest it wise to take two or more adults along.