EagleInKY

Just googling on Eagle Requirements history and you can find several reference sites. It looks like in 1958 they added the requirement "While a Life Scout, do your best to help in your home, school, church, and community". Then, in 1965 it was changed to "While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and carry out a service project helpful to your church or synagogue, school, or community". I know that, while the wording has only been modified slightly since then, the scope of the project has changed considerably. Sometime in the 1970s, the rule was changed so that it could not directly benefit the BSA or any unit. I believe there was a growing trend for service projects to be for things like camp improvements and the like. Also, I don't know if it is explicitely stated, but there seems to be much more of a focus on the planning and leadership aspects than there used to be. But that's just my opinion.

Back in my day as CM, I saw the trend you speak of. I tried my best to change things, and was pretty successful. Our Blue and Golds are now more of a celebration of the pack, a recognition of all members and an opportunity to thank leaders. To accomplish this, I did several things. - The only rank advancements we did were Webelos & Arrow of Light. Most of these guys would rap up in December or January, so it wasn't a big deal. We asked them to hold on for the formal presentation at the B&G. in 4 years, I only had one parent complain about that. - We delayed cross-over until March. Many of the Webelos will go ahead and start meeting with their chosen troop, but the formal "cross the bridge" doesn't take place until March. It makes it a seperate and important moment from earning the AOL. - We give out Year Pins and QU strips to every Cub. This gets them all in front of the group. - We started saying "no" to the Council FOS chairman. They are welcome to come in March, but we're not making a B&G a fundraiser (for anyone). These steps made it a much more enjoyable evening and our attendance shot up year over year.

Just one more comment on pop-ins. Sometimes we're not meeting at our regular time or place. For example: - At least twice a year we go up to the YMCA to swim. - Before Klondike we may be at someone's house to work on sled repair/construction. - A couple of times a year we may meet at the trailor to give it a good cleaning and take inventory. - We've rescheduled to fit a CPR instructor's schedule, to avoid Vacation Bible School at our sponsor and to avoid a major school activity. It's just another thing I thought of. I'd hate to have you show up only to find a locked door and an empty building.

I posted this same answer in a similar thread. We determine it on a case-by-case basis. If a fundraiser is more individual focused, as with a sales item, then the scouts get at least one-half, if not all of the profits. If it's a group activity, like a car wash, the troop gets it all. One fundraiser we do that is totally behind the scenes is a grocery card. Several of our local grocery stores have these (Meijer, Kroger, etc.). The one we use is a pre-pay card (you can stop at the customer service counter when you enter the store and put money on it, and then use it when you check out). We get 5% of all sales. We give them to moms, dads, grandmas, aunts, uncles, etc. It generates about $100-$150 per month for the troop. Some troops give the proceeds back to the individuals. We've chosen to use this as a way to keep a steady cash flow into our unit account.

t153 - Good question about the plan. That was one of the main topics of discussion with my SPL (my son) on the way back from camp. He and the ASPL had a plan, but it was up in their heads. The same way with a duty roster. They were, in essence, winging it. I explained to him that people - especially adults - when they are not presented with a plan, will seek to fill it with their own ideas. This will be a bit of coaching I'll give the PLC at their next meeting. Published (as in mounted in clear view) schedules and duty rosters are a great preventative step from this type of situation.

Of course now is not a great time to recruit, but you could certainly start making plans for a whiz-bang recruitment in the fall. These guys would be starting Webelos, which is a great time to go after the more adventure-seeking young men. Hit up your 4th graders on camping and hiking with the promise of even more exciting things to come in Boy Scouts. I'd try to do something special with them. We were able to get a booth set up during the open house at the beginning of the school year. We brought a bunch of cool stuff that attracted them (model rockets, PWD cars, pictures of campouts, etc.). If you have the space, setting up a tent would be an attention getter.

One key is to publish dates as early as possible. We publish an annual plan at the first of the year and then revise it in the summer. What this means is we have about nine months of activities planned in detail. So, our families already know the dates of all activities firm up through August. From that point on, the dates are tentative. As the school year schedule starts to come out, those dates get solidified. In the summer we do another plan, where we plan out through the end of the school year. The dates through December or January are pretty firm. The dates beyond that are tentative. This allows families to constantly keep a long-term calendar in mind. The second key is to make sure that you are doing what they want to do. Our PLC does a good job of listening to the boys. They do surveys to find out what they like and didn't like about each activity. They have brainstorming sessions and take surveys before the annual planning session. "Sacred traditions" are sometimes stopped because guys have lost interest. Finally, for the things that are really important, we stress at every opportunity. We have two campouts that we see as "mandatory". These are the first campout after crossover (we call our "Tenderfoot Weekend") and Summer Camp. I see these as non-negotiables. (Although we certainly have had to negotiate issues at times). If you stress their importance, you are much more likely to get participation. Finally, we are flexible. If we have a firm date only to find out 1/2 of the guys are out because of a band event, a soccer tournament and a church retreat, we will look at shifting the schedule. We don't always do it, but we'll consider it if it's a big deal.

I apologize for the long post, but this is a story about an otherwise great weekend that was tarnished by well-meaning adults that don't understand what boy-leadership is about. Our relatively young troop (3 years) is slowly growing into the type of troop I believe any true scouter would be proud to be associated with. In the past year, boy leadership has grown to the point that at times I go to a troop meeting not even knowing what the PLC has in store (I'm the SM). We've had several campouts and activities where I didn't know the plan until a few days before when I consulted the SPL. At PLC meetings I sit in the corner and stay quiet as I can be. These days it's been fun to be the SM. This weekend we had a little bump in the road. And, I'm afraid I didn't handle it as well as I should have. We had a cabin overnighter. Going into it I knew it was not going to be your traditional patrol-system campout. All of the boys were in one big room and the adults were in a different one (YP guildelines). With limited kitchen space the PLC decided it best to cook "troop style". Given the circumstances, I was agreeable to this as a noted exception. (Actually we had numerous exceptions in this campout, including boys bringing electronic games and soda on the menu). But I digress.... I walked in Saturday afternoon to find dinner almost done (by adults). The boys were scattered hither and yon. Some were playing, some were working on advancement, others were trying to wrap up some MB work with a counselor. All okay things. But I was troubled by the fact that the ASMs decided to cook dinner. "We were hungry and thought the boys deserved a break". Okay, I thought, give the guys a break "this time". I made a point to the boys that this was "the one and only time" we'll cook for you... This morning, you guessed it. Breakfast was cooked (at least partially) by the adults. Cooks were sent down, but they didn't cook enough, so the adults jumped in and started cooking more. Oh well, a learning for next time, I thought. Meanwhile, I take a shower. I've got to leave early to be at church and am taking my son(outgoing SPL) with me. We have to leave a couple of hours before everyone else. I come out of the room and I hear the sound of disgruntled boys coming from their room. I popped in to see what was up. The PLC was upset. "They're making us go to the museum". They told me. I asked "who is?". They said "Mr. A & Mr. B". Two ASMs with good intentions, but are the ones that always seem to take over if left to their own devices. You guessed it, these are the same two that cooked the meals. I go down and Mr. A is in the kitchen. I pulled him aside and told him he had a mutiny on his hands and that he needs to leave those decisions up to the PLC. "We took a vote and the majority wants to go", he told me. I told him that he needed to back off and let the PLC decide. I pulled the ASPL (who is becoming SPL next week) and the PLs together and tell them they need to decide what to do. Meanwhile, Mr. B is working with some scouts on advancement stuff, so I left him alone. I go back upstairs to finish getting ready to leave. When I come back downstairs, Mr. B is cleaning the dishes (yep, no kidding). The soon-to-be-SPL walks up to him and says "Mr. B, Mr. J (that's me) told me that the PLC needs to decide what to do this morning." Mr B steps back and says "we took a vote!". I saw what was about to happen and walked over. I explained to him that it was a PLC decision. He said "So they just ignore that the majority wants to go" (it was a small majority, by the way). I explained that it was not a democracy, and the PLC should make the decision. Taking a vote is certainly a fair way to decide, but it's up to them, not him, to decide. We had words, and he was visibly upset with me, as I with him. I had to leave shortly thereafter. We talked a little more and he calmed down. He felt I shouldn't have stepped in and overrode him. I tried to explain that I wouldn't have overrode anything if they had just let the PLC decide. I found out tonight that they ended up going anyway. I was told that they let the ASPL decide, but I know he was feeling the pressure of the moment. Bottom line is - I'm a little frustrated. Every time something likes this happens, I feel it takes twice as long to rebuild the momentum. I don't know if I'm looking for advice or just venting. But if you have any, I'll gladly take it.

Usually most dens wait until they are Webelos II. But there is nothing wrong with an early visit. I would love the opportunity to start promoting Boy Scouts to Webelos earlier. As for scheduling or "popping in", I believe it is common courtesy to schedule the visit. Popping in may give you a different perspective of the troop, but it may unfairly penalize them in the boy's minds. Simply put, there are some meetings where a visit just doesn't fit as well. For example, if they visited the week we had troop and patrol elections, they might get pretty bored. Even though it is an important part of the troop's function, and the Boy Scouts realize it's a big deal, it would seem pretty dull to a bunch of Webelos. Especially if they "popped in" on a different troop the previous week and caught them while they were practicing fire building or axe safety! If you want to pop in, why don't you just do it yourself? That way, you can get an idea on how the troop is run without the risk of impacting the boys negatively. While you are there you can talk with the SM and SPL about scheduling a future visit. One reason I like scheduling the meeting is so I can prepare some handouts for the parents. I like to promote scouting to its fullest and I usually grab 15 minutes of their time to promote Boy Scouts and explain about how the troop works and how meetings are run. Otherwise, they may think this boy-run troop is a little chaotic at times.

Ed, I was assuming they were selling it for the same price. If they were charging more, I would then have an issue. A few years ago we tried this as a unit. We bought about $1000 extra and tried selling it in store parking lots and as follow-up orders. We sold most of it and gave the rest away as thank you gifts, but we decided it wasn't worth the hassle.

Ours is handled on a case-by-case basis. If there is a strong individual component (such as selling an item like popcorn), the scout usually gets a portion or all of the profit. If it's more of a group activity (selling donuts at an event, car wash, etc.)then the money usually goes into the troop account.

First of all, you can't worry about whether the family can pay or not. If they placed the order, it's their responsibility. They were either confident that they could sell it, or the $1500 isn't a big deal to them. Either way, it's not your responsibility to worry about that. Personally, my experience has not been that the big purchasers don't pay, It's the $10 and $15 dollar checks that bounce that bug me. Second, it's just not worth worrying about how or why these things are sold. I had a dad by several hundred dollars worth one year to give as presents to his clients. One year our former Committee Chairman's boss purchased over a $1000 worth to give as gifts to clients and employees. And one year my brother in law bought $500 worth to give to his clients. The point is, whatever the reason, people will sometimes make big purchases. Could these folks have bought less expensive gifts or gotten more for their money at Walmart? Sure. But they wanted to help scouting. So, my opinion is don't worry about it. Let them do what they want with it. Take your profit and run a great pack. Worry about what really matters, the program and the boys.

Welcome to the forum Cindy!

I ditto Ed's comments. We make the guys shower at least twice. Tuesday or Wednesday and then again on Friday before the parent's show up. Thankfully, our camp installed privacy walls in the showers last year. We saw much improvement in their willingness to take showers.

Our troop takes two annual photos that are mounted and displayed at our CO. One is at Summer Camp, all of the guys and adults wearing the summer camp t-shirt lined up in front of the camp sign. The other is done in February, in conjunction with our annual uniform inspection. All of the guys are in full class-A uniform and look their best. In both cases, we give a 5x7 to each scout in the photo.

Our packet is similar. We include what to bring, key dates, times, parent's night, policies, etc. MB offerings are included, as well as recommended ages and pre-reqs. We also explain the pricing structure, early payment discounts, etc. We charge a $20 "Troop fee" that covers other costs such as T-shirts, food, special program fees, special recognitions and any additional MB books that we don't have in the troop library. This also helps defray the cost of the adults that go. For new parents I include a "how to help keep your child from getting homesick" note. It includes several of the items I mentioned on that thread we had going recently.

The proper way is to say the pledge before posting. That said, no one would string you up for changing things around to accomodate the smaller guys. But, given you want to do it "right", how about these ideas: For the younger guys, like Tigers, just allow them to rest the flagpole on the floor during the pledge. As short as they are, it would hardly be noticed. Make sure to dip your pack flag during the pledge. As for the older guys, consider getting the color guard belts. This allows the weight to be distributed across their shoulders in addition to their arms.

OGE - You are certainly the PRINCE of music trivia. (Of course, if you were a lady, I'd have to call you the QUEEN). You are quite the the JEWEL of this forum. You SLAUGHTER me with your wit. I was curious about why you want a NICKELBACK? I can't get anyone to do anything for me for less than a 50-CENT piece. That is, unless I throw in a package of EMINEMs (M&Ms). As for the dinner, I would decorate the room with lots of scout colors. Red and WHITE STRIPES should abound. Of course, I've always heard it called Red & Green, so you could call it the Red and GREEN DAY celebration, as well. And as for your skit. I find music wherever I travel in AMERICA. Whether I'm in ALABAMA, KANSAS or CHICAGO, I can't help but think of my favorite tunes. YES, some day I'm going to be BIG & RICH, and I'll be able to travel to all my favorite places. I may even GO WEST, so I can watch the EAGLES soar. Sorry for the KORN-y comeback, but I can resist TEMPTATIONS like this.

Several thoughts, I'll try to be succinct (for once:) ). Around here, Packs are generally aligned with school districts (one per elementary school). There are fewer troops, but not by much. Most of the packs have an associated troop, and most troops have an associated pack. Probably 90% of Cubs go to their associated troop. For example, we are associated with a pack (same CO, same number, several shared adult leaders). But there is another troop in our small town, three or four in a town 5 miles away, two in a town 7 miles away, and two or three more ina town 10-12 miles away. Before we started our troop three years ago, our Webelos scattered to the wind. If you had 10 Webelos, no more than 2 or 3 would go to the same troop. We found that we were having an enormously high drop out rate. Most of the boys were dropping out within one year. Even though we had a loose associatiation with the troop in our area (same CO, but different number and no shared leadership). When we outgrew the CO, we found a new sponsor and started a new troop with a stronger relationship. It's worked out very well. A couple of points, I have not had any luck recruiting from other packs. Their relationships have been in place so long, they usually want even return my calls. Even the one pack that is just a few miles away and doesn't have a troop won't return my calls. "They've always gone to Troop x", is the standard reply. So, I've generally not pushed recruiting these guys. Maybe I should, but it's just not been a big item for me. I'm going to make a bigger effort in that next year. Second, I've found that troops that sell well with parents (and to some degree the kids too), are not necessarily the best troops. The best troop that recruits in our area is the huge MB mill I've mentioned before. They put on quite a show. But in my opinion, they don't have a good BSA program. They have a good program, it just follows their book, not the BSAs. I've also seen that scouts that come into their program from the outside (i.e. not from their pack), have a difficult time assimilating into the group. I found that over a period of about six years, over 90% of the scouts that graduated from our pack had dropped out. Most of them in the first few months. Anyway, if you have an associated pack, work to keep the relationship strong. Den Chiefs, color guards for special events, helping with the pinewood derby, joint service projects and sharing adult leaders are some of the ways to make that happen.

Some kids are amazing at fooling adults, and other kids for that matter. I've run across a few in my years that were a total "Eddie Haskell" to the adults and a total jerk to the boys. (Hopefully most of you will understand the Eddie Haskell reference). If you really think something is going on, ask one of your lower-key quiet adults (if you have one of those) to keep an eye on the group for a couple of outings. If you don't have one of those, maybe a mature, older scouts can do the trick. Often I've found the troublemaker will really watch out for the adults in charge, but will let their guard down around someone they really don't see as an authority figure. Nevertheless, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt until I had more to go on.

"It is EXTREMELY dangerous and can kill. " Come on now. Sure it can, but so can repelling, whitewater rafting and swimming, but we do those things as well! It's just important to follow the appropriate precautions. I subscribe to the 3 pot method as long as you are in an established campsite. If you are backpacking or in an undeveloped area, use a LNT method.

Since most of this work is done during the first year while they are part of the NSP, we primarily use the Troop Guide and the ASM assigned to them to be responsible for this task. Although, any PLC member is allowed to sign off. Also, in cases where a scout is assigned to instruct on a particular subject, he is given the privelege of signing off on what he covers. For example, let's say an older scout is assigned the task of teaching some new scouts their Toten' Chip, he could then sign off on the requirement associated with that.

I heard of a troop that had a "red and green". It was, as suggested here, a Boy Scout version of a Blue & Gold banquet. I guess with no national standard, local traditions sometimes come about. I think this is one of them.

I agree with the approach the tree-chewing bunch have given you. I didn't know there were so many wise Beavers out there. Not to be too confrontational, but your troop committee needs to understand that it is your job (I assume you are SM) to determine how to run the program. Actually, to be more correct, it is the PLCs job, under your guidance, to determine how to run the program. You are planning to run it according to the BSA guidelines and they really have little to no say in the "operations" side of the program. They are the "ways and means" to carrying out the program, not the administrators of program.

Welcome to our virtual roundtable. We look forward to getting to know you, too.