EagleInKY

sweetspiritpamh - That's called "Spider Sniffing"! We traditionally take our new scouts to learn this critical scout skill on their first campout. I'm still waiting for my petition to make it a Tenderfoot requirement to be approved by the boys in Dallas.

With only one meeting left, it's important to not let emotions mess things up. Encourage everyone to keep cool and give it time to work out. After all, there's not going to be any further damage after the last meeting. I'd first talk to your Cubmaster or Committee Chair. Find out if your pack has any policies or procedures around this. Most don't, but maybe your does. I'd also talk to the parents of the problem scout. Let them know that there are serious concerns. You can't continue into next year with the current behavior issues. Maybe with some maturity over the summer, and some good parenting, he'll come back better in the fall. If not, you'll have to have some difficult conversations at that time. Hopefully the parents will either make some improvements or hit the road on their own. On the flip side, I can tell you that there was a scout that I nearly forced out several years ago. It wasn't bullying, or I probably would have. His was just your typical disruptive ADHD-ish behavior. A few scouts may have left because of him (I know of one). Today, he's still sometimes immature and disruptive. But he's a Life Scout, Den Chief and can often be one of our funnest scouts to be around. I'm glad I had patience with him... and sometimes still need it. But I think he's going to get so much out of scouting that it's worth every grey hair.

76- I believe you are correct. I was hoping to get some opinions from this elite group.

SFF is a big service project in our council. It's held right before Thanksgiving, which is probably a real good time for it. Our pack and troop work together (around 60-80 boys enrolled, probably 75% participation). We used to collect over 3000 items. Our coverage area has been cut because of there being so many units around here, so now we only get around 2000.

I believe it's true that former Eagles have had their rank revoked... I believe that was behind one of the gay-related cases. I guess what I take issue with is the attitude and the "only two ways"... I would guess National can revoke it for a variety of reasons. But why in the world would you say that to a new Eagle candidate? And, then the whole thing about the POR. This guy obviously doesn't understand the rules or the reason for the BOR.

I think I'd go to either the District Advancement Chair or Council Advancement Chair to get this guy removed or trained.

On another thread, Hillis tells about their upcoming Philmont trek: ... a Northern hike through part of Valle Vidal with cool activities including the new "Bikeathalon" where you ride a mountain bike with an air gun on your back and then you stop occasionally to shoot, much like the Olympic event, the Biathalon, except with bikes. Barry responded: What a great idea for a troop campout. A troop could take two months to get ready for something like that. I agree. This sounds really cool. Has anyone else done anything like this? What are the G2SS implications? I know paint-ball is a no-no, but this would be really cool with paintball guns. I'd love to suggest the idea to the PLC, but want to know the implications first.

invite the ASMs into the group and give everyone a copy of the PL Handbook. Ask everyone to thumb through it for just a couple minutes, and then ask them one thing they see in the book that they dont see in the troop. Ask them why and see where that goes. I find many such discussions lead to a direction your JLT needs to go for your program and that point in time. I love this idea! I've been looking at doing some leadership training our next campout. I think I've just found what I'm looking for.

Sue - I feel your pain. On this campout, were the boys busy? Or were they just "Hanging out"? If the boys aren't busy, they're typically going to hang out with their buddies. If this ASPL's buddies are in that patrol, that's where he's going to want to be. That makes perfect sense. After, Scouting is supposed to be fun, and he should have fun hanging out with his friends. Our most successful patrol-based campouts have been where there were lots of things to do, in a patrol setting. For instance, we held a "troop camporee" last fall where the patrols competed against each other in various events. This kept them busy through much of the day. They even had a service project to do and a meal-cooking competition. So nearly every aspect of the day was wrapped up in the patrol setting. And who put on this event? The SPL and ASPL, of course. They didn't have time to socialize, because they were running the show. My point is, if they are busy doing their job, they will probably not be hanging out in the patrols. If they don't have anything to do, they will gravitate toward their friends. As for a common area, we normally have a central "troop area" for the adults and senior boy leaders. But patrols don't hang out there. We run them back to their patrol campsites. (Side note: We don't have enough cook gear for all the patrols to have their own kitchen, so they often have to do their cooking in the central area. But they still cook as patrols and take it back to their campsite.) As for him "being a spy" and taking things back to his patrol buddies, you need to have a heart-to-heart with him about that. If he'd rather be with his buddies, maybe he should step down from ASPL and let someone who wants to do the job have it. Don't let the "I'll move to another troop" threat get to you. You're trying to do a good thing and you will meet some resistence. Heck, if you've read some of my postings lately, I'm having more issues with my assistants than my guys.

Never heard that one before.

Thanks, very nice.

Ditto John in KC. Many of the campsites in our camp are not conducive to tent camping. They are on slopes or the ground is so rocky, rooty (is that a word) and hard-packed, you'd have a tough time finding a place to set up a tent. I have seen a few instances where a troop had a last minute visitor/addition and they had to set up a personal tent for them.

Nuts.

This article is interesting. The statistics don't tell us enough to draw any factual conclusions. There's too many unknowns about the data. But it's still good info to see. My experience of dropouts and rank match up with those in this survey. We've had four drop out in three years (I often forget about that one that dropped out in the first month). Three dropped out before making Tenderfoot. The other decided when he was 2nd class, but his dad wouldn't let him quit until he earned First Class. Also, of the three boys that have transfered to other units, two were 2nd class and one was 1st class. I would bet it's rare for a scout to transfer units (except if they move) past 1st class as well.

Absolutely KNOT, OGE. But, then again, I'm knot an expert. I wear my knots. I'm proud of them, but I don't live and die for them. In fact, I know there are a couple of knots I qualify for that I've never filled the paperwork for. I guess someday I will. But it's just not that big a deal. I'll disagree with Beavah. I believe you can wear whatever knots you've earned. As a den leader I earned the den leader award, and I still wear it. As cubmaster, I earned the cubmaster award. I still wear that too. As OGE says, they are a visual resume of some of the roads I've traveled. I earned them as an adult, and I'm still an adult, so I don't think it's a problem. I believe the intent of that rule was for Boy Scouts not to wear Cub Scout ranks, adults not to wear youth patches, etc.

I sent my counselor a detailed e-mail. I included some pdf documents to demonstrate some of the products. For the most part he just took my word for it. I was surprised it was so easy. Now I just have to figure out a time for the ceremony. Although I hate to wait, I think I'm going to wait until our next COH in June.

nld - Yes, you are correct. I forgot that rule. I remember a 30-something year old scout getting Eagle here several years ago. karent - It's unfortunate, it sounds like the mom is more focused on advancement/rewards than she is in the social interaction that will be good for her son. I hope you can help her work through it. Do a google search on "Scouting Unlimited". This is what some council offices refer to their programs to work with scouts with disAbilities. Here's a link to one council's website that may be useful: http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/pages/225_serving_scouts_with_disabilities.cfm?redirect=yes

Two years ago we had a semaphore competition at our fall camporee. Our guys loved it. In fact, when the district camporee was cancelled this past fall we held our own "troop camporee" and they asked to do it again! Plans for this fall's district camporee are already in the works and we expect to be well prepared for it this time around.

There's a troop in our council that has a few LD kids. We shared a campsite with them at summer camp a few years ago. The LD kids that were there seemed to hang out at the campsite more than go to MB classes. I'm not sure what rank they were, maybe they didn't know. Advancement seemed to be the farthest thing from their mind. They were there to have fun. I don't know if any of these guys ever made Eagle. That's not important. They seemed to be having the time of their lives. The SM said that some of them stuck around past 18. They didn't even realize they weren't scouts any more. They just liked being with their friends. I think that's cool.

you should get the publication "Scouting for Youth with Learning Disabilities". There's too much to type here, but here are some snippets: "...it is important that these scouts be treated as much like others as possible, therefore completing the requirements as stated in official Scouting literature should be a primary objective. It may take these scouts a little longer than others..." "...he may apply for alternate requirements for Tenderfoot throught First Class ranks, or for an alternative Merit Badge." Note - it did not say alternate requirements for a merit badge. "Giving more time and permitting the use of special aids are other ways leaders can help scouts with disabilities in their efforts to advance." "The substitute should provide a similar learning experience. Bear in mind the outcome of the Scouting experience should be one of fun and learning, and not completing requirements for rank advancements." hmmm, sounds like another thread topic. Steps: 1 - Do as many standard requirements as possible 2 - Secure a medical statement 3 - Prepare a request for alternate requirements 4 - The advancement committee reviews the request

1. Is your troop boy led? Yes, To a great extent. I have to direct things in the background a little bit, but that (I believe) is to be expected. Especially with a new PLC. 2. Do you make good use of the patrol method? Not nearly as well as I'd like. This is a focus for this year. We realigned the patrols based upon there preferences. (In the past, the membership of the patrols were largely driven by the PLC and adults.) It's interesting how that this has worked out. One patrol turned out real well, while the other is a ragtag group. It's going to be interesting watching them over the coming months. 3. How many boys are in your troop? 21. Two in leadership positions. Two in NSP (with hopefully a few more joining them). The other 17 are in two patrols. 4. What has your troop meeting program been the last few months? February/March have been focused on basic scout skills. Kind of a refresher leading into crossover time. Next month is camping skills. May is Canoeing/Safe Trip Afloat. Some of our upcoming themes are Auto Mechanics, Forestry and Wilderness Survival.

Veni - You might very well be correct. Also, back in those days, scouts did the BORs for the early ranks. That was often abused (or so I've heard).

That's the number I've heard too.

Great points Eamonn. I thought (and still think) that the "my troop" thing is not that big a deal. That is, as long as it's "my" troop and not "MY" troop. What's the difference? Well, my state, my basketball team, my school, my neighborhood, my company are all about pride of membership in an entity of some kind. In this case, "my troop" is certainly acceptible. However, when it becomes like "MY car, MY house, MY computer, etc., then it becomes an issue of ownership. It's these types of scouters that I worry about. My take on the topic of this thread is that the "punishment" should go against who broke the rule. If a scout innocently goes to a MBC who does not follow the rules, I don't think the scout should be punished. The MBC should be removed from the list and no longer used by the troop. If the scout knowingly didn't do the work. For example, let's say the counselor says "we're not going to worry about this or that", then I believe the scout owns part of the responsibility. If the scout knows he was shortcutting the system, then to live by the scout oath and law, he should live up to his responsibility and complete the requirement.

When should you? - When the structure is temporary - When you have the materials (rope, poles) - When you want to use existing (natural) materials instead of cutting, nailing or otherwise constructing something. - When you don't have other materials (nails, screws, tools, etc.) - When you're working on Pioneering Merit Badge. When should you not? - Permanent structures - When you can't build it to support the necessary weight (i.e. it's not safe) - When you don't have the proper eqiupment (good rope, large enough poles, etc.)