EagleInKY

"I'll raise my own son, thank you very much. " We (scout leaders in general) are not trying to raise your son. In fact, I get quite aggravated with parents that seem to want to abdicate that responsiblility to me. We are, however, trying to run a program that will help develop your son in many ways - physically, emotionally, socially... Part of that involves you letting go of some things you'd like to see done, for the good of the program as a whole. I'm not trying to be overly critical, I guess I'm just a little sensitive. I've got a really bizarre situation along these lines in our troop and I don't understand why a parent won't let his son do what hundreds of thousands of others have proven to be successful.

Now let's hope they're made of the right material and have pockets that can actually hold some of the gear you need to take with you outdoors. I wonder if these are going to be "official uniform pants" or "activity uniform (aka not-field uniform) pants".

Congrats big E. As the dad of a Life Scout I can relate to you, although my son still has a few years. He told me the other day he's not going to rush to throw together an Eagle Project. He'd like to start planning it next winter and do it next summer. I told him that was great and I was glad he was beginning to think about it seriously.

Ditto some of the others, they didn't look at our house. Our kids clean their rooms and their portion of the house (upstairs), they feed the dog and help with general chores. My daughter enjoys cooking and often helps in the kitchen, especially when SWMBO isn't home to get things ready. My son does 90% of the mowing and landscaping.

We tried for a few years with cash incentives and the like, all with lukewarm support. Some improvement, but only so much. One of the early ideas was that if the unit hit our goal, the top seller could throw a pie in the Cubmaster's face. That got some traction, but not enough. What really raised the bar for us was when we decided to do unit prizes. We decided about five years ago to offer big prizes to the top couple of sellers. And, all who sold something would receive some sort of prize. The first year the top seller received a Playstation2 and the 2nd place got a Gameboy Advanced. We more than doubled our annual sales. Since then, we've continued this practice. Depending upon how they do, there are nice prizes for the first 3-5 places and then lesser prizes for the rest. We've led our district each year for five years and been in the top 3 of the council each year. We've also done that without ever having the top district salesman. That demonstrates that it truly is a team effort making it work.

Gee, if we couldn't camp during thunderstorms we wouldn't do much camping. Seems to be a regular occurrence when we go out.

Unless there is a medical reason, I would encourage you to allow your son to sleep with his patrol. That's the way we do it. And I think it is consistent with scouting principles. Based upon your logic, you should eat with his patrol, go to his patrol meetings and spend every moment with him. There will be plenty of time for you guys to bond. Allow him to get the most out of the patrol experience. As long as you are joined at the hip with him, he won't experience the full value of scouting, including other benefits, such as association with other adults. Hey, I miss the father/son moments at time too, but I cherish watching him mature from "afar".

Ditto the other statements. We had a scout that had ADD issues (non-medicated). We ended up having a long talk with the parents. We came to some agreement (parent sticking around meetings, attending outings, etc.). We also agreed to hold him up on the Scout Spirit requirement for advancement. This is what really got him. We expected improvements at each level and have gotten it. He's far from perfect, but he has come a long way. He just made Life, and I would have sworn to you two years ago he'd never make it. Get the parents involved, counsel the scout, and don't give up!

First, the technical answer to your question is "yes". Leaders can hold registration in more than one unit. I, for example, am the Scoutmaster of the Troop and Committee Chair of the pack. We did this to try help transition when I stepped down as Cubmaster. Normally, yes, the leaders move on with the boys. Perhaps these leaders still have some younger sons coming up through the pack? I can't tell from your post what their reason for sticking around is. Can you enlighten us some more? Why do they want to stick around if their boys have moved on? (Note-I know of some leaders that have done this, because they truly love Cub Scouting.)

Sorry to hear about your difficulties Krisi. I hope things shape up soon. One of the hardest things about being a leader is dealing with the parents. As Barry recently reminded me on this forum, it's one of the most important jobs of the unit leader. Our unit has suffered recently because I and some others had not been paying enough attention to it. It's something we all need to remember. As for PWD, it does sometimes bring out the worst in parents. We emphasize the importance of good sportsmanship before the PWD and remind parents that it is for fun. I've only had a few problems in the past 8 years of PWDs. We went to a round-robin scoring system during my second year as Cubmaster. It still has the competitive feel, but doesn't have a lot of the shortcomings of double-elimination (not sure which method you used). We also show the scoring up on a computer screen so that mistakes are caught as they happen. Good luck, and hang in there.

We've got two sets of adults at our meetings. The "uninvolved" usually hang out in some chairs in the church foyer. I'm not even sure why they hang around. Most are only a few minutes from home. I've always had a suspicion that these were the parental types that tend to over-protect their sons. Not sure, just seems odd, almost like they don't trust us. Most of the adults at are meetings are the "involved" ones, most of them are ASMs or Committee Members. They usually hang out in the fellowship hall where we do our opening and closing. Sometimes a group of scouts will stay in there to do something, but they usually find their way to another portion of the church. When the scouts break out to the smaller rooms, they are usually on their own, unless they or I have asked for some assistance of some sort.

John-in-KC - Our council doesn't collect for position code 42. MBCs are only given an overview of YP rules and an overview of MBC roles. I wish we had more formality to it, but that's the way it's done here.

ssullivan While individual competitions can be fun (and I have on issue with having some at a camporeet), I would much rather see the time used to leverage the patrol system and have patrols compete against each other.

Hope this doesn't offend, it certainly isn't meant to... At Webelos Resident Camp a few years ago there was a very attractive mom who showed up for swimmer's test in a bikini. She was informed of the one-piece rule (much to the chagrin of some of the male scouters present). Of course, the joke with her through the rest of camp was a twist on the old joke about the European woman who showed up at an American swimming pool in a bikini and was told that only one piece suits were allowed. Her response was "Which piece?"....

Competitions are often a highlight of scouting. I still remember several camporees or other events where we had great competitions against other "rival" troops. Guys love to go to school Monday morning and stick their chest out and brag about how they beat the other guys. Healthy competition is good, fun and promotes the learning of important skills.

This is one of those times we often just have to grin and bear it. Well, you don't have to grin about it if you don't want to. I've seen many parents push their kids. Usually it's because their kids are "more talented, gifted, athletic, popular, etc.... " than the others. They need to get this "checked off" so they can move on. I hate it, but as long as they are meeting the requirements (including the scout spirit stuff), then there's not a lot I can do. I've got one lad that I've heard the parents want him to hurry up and get Eagle and drop out. The parents don't like me (or any one else for that matter). It's not the boys fault. My main concern now is that HE does his Eagle project, and not his parents.

Recently there was some talk about whitewater and other activities (caving, climbing, etc) in Ohiopyle, PA. It's in the Southwestern part of the state, probably within your distance (or close to it).

We encourage all new families to volunteer one adult for the committee for the first year. Most will do that. The ones that don't, we probably don't want anyway. After that first year, we pretty much know who is a value add to the committee and who is not. Usually only those that are of value are rechartered (troop pays the fees). The ones that truly get involved work very well together and are very effective at what they do. Our advancement chair tries to pull a variety of people from the committee in for BORs. Over time he has developed his "A-list" of people he prefers and calls on first. (Being active with BORs is one of the values we would recognize when rechartering.) We encourage everyone who actively participates in campouts to be registered members. I see this as two-way protection. We know that they've passed the BSA background check and they can feel confident that the BSA will stand behind them in a lawsuit. Our committee meetings are open and all parents are invited/encouraged to attend. This just serves as an extra communication layer that helps get the word out. Yes, we expect the boys to do that, but we know that communication channel is not always effective. As for MBCs, Ed, Avid, Acco... they've all said it, I won't repeat them. And finally, as for CNY's original post, I would suggest that neither unit truly is operating under the BSA model. The troop must have a committee, they are the "ways and means" of the troop. They provide us with what we need to run the program. However, they in no way "run the troop". They enable the Scoutmasters who oversee the program and the PLC who runs the program.

I'm pretty sure our camp has a rule against bikinis and speedos.

Troop WISE has been discussed in here before. It's been a while. As with anything, it's got some good points and not-so-good ones. I've printed out their documentation and have used parts of it in youth training. As for the "chain of command" comment, I sorta agree. But I think it's just a word for what we know exists. There are responsibiliites in the troop. The PLs "report" to the SPL, the troop PORs "report" to the ASPL, etc. This just makes it more formal than we're used to seeing it. I don't agree with their approach on discipline. They make the PLC the primary source of discipline. The SM doesn't get involved with discipline until step 5 of 7. Further, the Troop Committee and COR have no involvement in the process. I think this is the most significant deviation from the Boy Scout program. Other than that, it's a pretty good plan and there's some good stuff that you may be able to put to use in your unit.

Welcome to the forum Mr. Mal. We're glad you are here.

GWD - From the SM Handbook, Chapter 3, Page 13 Senior Patrol Leader "... He is elected by all members of the troop. Each troop sets its own requirements and schedule of elections..." There are various reasons given. Weak ones include prior bad experience or the SM not trusting the boy's opinion. Better ones include setting a bar for guys to attain, or making sure the SPL is reasonably active in the troop. Term limits are also discussed. The up side of them is that they force rotation around the troop. The down side is that when you only have one good candidate, term limits may force you to have a less qualified SPL.

I won't rehash my district's training woes, except to remind you that we have had one Boy Scout training session sense we started our troop three years ago. And, that one was three years ago... We haven't had outdoor leader training this CENTURY. (Cub Scout training and YPT are the only training they offer with any regularity). The reason, I'm told by the district folks, is that there are so many scouters out here with loads of experience, they don't "need" to send their leaders to training. They get it "on the job". Personally, I wish there were minimum requirements for starting a troop. I think at least two leaders should get the full suite of training. We did that, and it helped us tremendously. I've seen other troops who started up in the past couple of years that are really struggling because they haven't had that. I also think we should make some training mandatory for review, as we do with YPT. (Although I have yet to see that enforced around here). Of course, I think that is one of the primary reasons behind roundtables, but that has not been effective here either.

We've had a boy with that issue as well. The parents let us know ahead of time. They would send an extra sleeping bag that one of the adults would keep in their vehicle. If something happened, we'd discreetly help him change out his gear the next day. I think it happened once or twice. It hasn't been an issue since.

Barry's suggestion about a mentor troop is a great idea, if you can find one to help you. The challenge as I see it is that most troops are started because of an absence of the type of troop they want to be in their area. Therefore, a mentor troop probably needs to be geographically in an area that doesn't "compete" with the new troop. In essence, this is what I did when we started our troop. My dad is the CC for a troop in the next county. They are in a different district, different school system, etc. We partnered up with them to go to summer camp the first year. We were next to them in the same campsite. (We acted autonomously, but interacted a lot). We visited troop meetings, campouts and a variety of other events to get an understanding of how they do things. We didn't copy them verbatim (they are too adult-run for my taste), but we got some good ideas nevertheless. Now, three years later, they come to us for ideas. We exchange ideas about troop leadership, patrol system and activities/places to go. It's been a great relationship that I hope will continue for many years.