EagleInKY

We've used half of a 55 gallon drum for a couple of years. We cut a couple of holes around the bottom for air circulation. A grill fits across the top pretty well. I've also used a dutch oven table. The fire isn't as big and it's about chest level, which seems kind of weird. But it's not too bad.

Dan - Not speaking for Eagledad, but you would have a couple of options. The first is to have him earn hiking or cycling instead. These are options for all scouts who can't swim or don't want to earn swimming. In my opinion, they are harder than swimming. You could also request to substitute an Eagle required MB. For example, maybe Sports could be substituted for swimming. It ties into being athletic and fit, but it gives the scout much more latitude in what they do to pass the MB. What you cannot do is change the requirements of the MB. For example, you can't shorten the swimmer's test or eliminate floating on your back. You have to substitute the entire badge, not a requirement.

In my early days of scouting we camped a few times in shelter halves. They were army issue, not officially from scouting. I don't ever remember seeing official BSA shelter halves. We never had BSA tents. As I got older, we camped either in big 8 man canvas tents or 2 man backpacking tents, depending upon the situation.

Trev - Thanks for bringing up this important subject. I do not have specific, personal experience on the topic, but I have researched it a time or two on the possibility of utilizing the alternate requirements on some borderline cases. My understanding differs from yours on point #2. You said "Until the Life rank is awarded, all advancement procedures are at the unit level. This means that no special coordination with council is required for any alternative requirements until a scout becomes an Eagle candidate. Importantly, once a unit has certified a scout as having earned a rank (through Life), council may not second guess the procedures for any rank." Here's what the requirement book says: 1) The physical or mental disability must be of a permanent rather than a temporary nature. 2) A clear and concise medical statement concerning the Scout's disabilities must be submitted by a physician licensed to practice medicine. In the alternative, an evaluation statement certified by an educational administrator may be submitted. The medical statement must state the doctor's opinion that the Scout cannot complete the requirement(s) because of a permanent disability. 3) The Scout, his parents, or leaders must submit to the council advancement committee, a written request that the Scout be allowed to complete alternative requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank. The request must explain the suggested alternate requirements in sufficient detail so as to allow the advancement committee to make a decision. The request must also include the medical statement required in paragraph two above. The written request for alternate requirements must be submitted to and approved by the local council prior to completing alternate requirements. 4) The Scout must complete as many of the regular requirements as his ability permits before applying for alternate requirements. The alternate requirements must be of such a nature that they are as demanding of effort as the regular requirements. 5) When alternate requirements involve physical activity, they must be approved by the physician. 6) The unit leader and any board of review must explain that to attain Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank a candidate is expected to do his best in developing himself to the limit of his resources. 7)The written request must be approved by the council advancement committee, utilizing the expertise of professional persons involved in Scouting for disabled youth. The decision of the council advancement committee should be recorded and delivered to the Scout and his leader. (Source: 33215F - page 13) The two points I highlighted contradict your 2nd point. Also, for using alternative Merit Badges for Eagle, the "Application for Alternate Eagle Scout Merit Badges" must be completed prior to qualifying. Furthermore, the advancement guidelines state that "The application must be approved by the council committee responsible for advancement, utilizing the expertise of professional persons involved in Scouting for the disabled." I'm afraid those who advised you are not following the policies as laid out by National.

We have this issue sometimes as well. Most campouts have a theme and rarely do they tie directly to advancement. For example, this weekend we went canoeing. Most of the time was spent in preparation of the canoe trip and then resting/recovering afterward. But, there was a little bit of "down-time" where the guys could do things. A few new scouts took the time to work with an older scout to earn their toten chip. A few 2nd Class scouts took the time in the evening to find their way without a compass using the North Star. None of these were organized or set up by adults. While we may have dropped a few non-so-subtle hints ("wow, can you see how clear the sky is tonight, I bet you can really see the stars..."), we let the boys take the initiative. As for FC/FY, a hotly discussed subject here, I find that only the most dedicated, involved and energetic boys can accomplish this. Most take closer to 18 months. Our goal is to provide a program that allows for those with the desire to reach that goal, while not becoming an advancement factory that stamps out First Class clones every 12 months.

Most of our adults that attend are there for the entire week. They may have to run out a time or two for business or personal issues, but are generally there. We're only an hour from home, so it's easy to come and go if you need to. Most of those who attend are registered leaders, either SM/ASM or Committee members. Most of our committee members do not wear a uniform. We also do the "time share" approach. This year we have one adult that is going to be there for the first part of the week, and another who will be there for the back half. Camp allows us to treat them as one person, since they do not overlap. As for how much we hand-hold the scouts, it's dependent on age. We tend to "shadow" the first year scouts, "keep an eye on" the second years, and "trust but verify" the older ones. We have a couple of special-need kids that require more attention.

We try to give our permission slips out 4 weeks in advance and ask them to be returned 2 weeks (11-12 days, typically) before the event. We don't use the generic year-long releases for the same reasons given. Plus, we've been told that they weren't the paper they were written on. As for flexibility, we try to be flexible with scouts and seldom tell them "no". I like what anarchist said about the "usual suspects". We have them too. The only time we are not flexible at all is when we're dealing with a 3rd party restrictions... such as an outfitter that has a deadline. We've had to add an additional item to our permission slips. Often a boy has plans to leave a campout early or leave during the campout for sports or other activities. We've had to require that in writing, because we've had kids leave a camp with their friend who was leaving early.

Okay, I didn't catch that it was a medically diagnosed issue. Not sure what that means, but it would at least cause me to have some patience in working through the issue. I still wouldn't send him back to the den though. I'd rather him leave for a while and come back.

Brainstorming here...how about assigning him an older "buddy" scout? Sort of a one-on-one troop guide? We do this alot. Sometimes formally, often informally. Younger guys need that buddy, even if it's just a more mature guy from his own age-group. We have a scout that is attached to his dad. He doesn't want to go anywhere his dad isn't. Frankly, it's kind of scary. Because of dad's schedule, he only makes it to one or two troop meetings a month, and about 1/3 of the outings. Needless to say, advancment ain't happenin'. We force dad and him apart, but they come back together like magnets. In our case, dad is equally part of the problem. Is it possible the mom in your case is????

John-in-KY agrees with John-in-KC

I wear the poly/wool shirt year-round. It does look much better than the poly/cotton shirt. I don't wear it on campouts, though. I've got an old poly/cotton for that.

Yeah, but ya may spoil da whole batch by caterin to this one lad, eh? (Sorry Beav). I don't agree with allowing him to go back unless he meets the age requirements mentioned. If he does, then it's purely within his control. I certainly don't agree with making him Den Chief. Scoutnut got that one right. He's not qualified for this position, and calling him one just to let him "play" with the Webelos is not doing him any good. It sounds harsh, but I had a young lad that wanted to be Den Chief from the beginning because he enjoyed playing with the younger kids. This year I finally allowed him to be Den Chief this year. He's a 4th year scouts (Life rank). Only now is he mature enough (barely) to do the job. What really scares me is how this boy will portray scouting to the Webelos. This hits close to home because of the problems I had with our Webelos den this year. One of my oldest scouts (Life working on Eagle), is quite a negative lad. He gets it honestly (from both dad & mom). His little brother was in the den. He made himself unofficial Den Chief (without my knowledge). He grumbled about how he didn't get to do this or wanted to do that... as he tends to do since he's a negative person. What was the effect? Only 1 of 11 Webs crossed over to our troop. Several didn't go on to scouting at all. So, before you think about sending him back, think about how he'll answer these questions. "Say Johnny, why did you come back?", "How do you like Boy Scouts?", "How was the campout?", or "What do you guys do at meetings?". If you think he'll cast the troop in a negative light (which sounds like he will), then I would keep him far away from those guys. Finally, it's maybe not so bad if he takes a break from scouts. I have had scouts quit and come back a year later. In fact I just heard that one of the boys that didn't cross over last year now wants to give it a try. Let him go inactive, but keep in touch with him. Chances are he'll miss some part of the program, and you'll have a chance at getting him back.

Our guys cook chicken in a DO too. They have done both BBQ and shake-n-bake. Either one comes out VERY juicy. It's delicious.

Our council (Lincoln Heritage) gives free badges of rank when you turn in the advancement report. It's their little incentive to make sure units turn in their paperwork.

We find it challenging to find a good activity for Web Is to participate. I'd like to get them out to at least one activity in the Spring of their Web 1 year. This could be a camp visit, a day hike or a simple overnighter close to home. We try to get the Web IIs camping as often as possible once their school year starts.

Interesting idea. We just stress it over and over again. The boys have come to know it and expect it. The older guys often remind the younger ones at Summer Camp. Invariably, someone will wander off. This gives us a good opportunity to stress the importance of it. We've had a scout return to the campsite without his buddy. He'd say something like, he's with Joe & Tommy down at the lake. We'd take him back to his buddy and make them come up with a plan to get back to camp.

We are supposed to notify our SE as soon as possible in the case of hospitalization or loss of consciousness. I have his office number and my DEs cell, home & office number with me.

In the first two years of our existence, we only had one campout without rain. Several campouts included heavy thunderstorms and other severe weather. We started calling ourselves the "Mighty Ducks".

I agree with Ed on this. Sometimes you need to teach a new skill to the boys. For example, when we introduced GPS to them, an adult first taught the skill to the older boys. Once they've got it, they can then instruct the younger ones. But someone has to teach it to them first.

Let the boys decide! Put it to the PLC to figure out. This is a great example of them having to look at the pros and cons and long-term impact of things. We restructured our patrols this year and I (the SM) wanted them to keep the existing patrol names. I thought it would be nice from a legacy perspective to keep the patrol names in tact. But the boys overwhelmingly wanted to choose new patrol names after the restructure.

I think it's fair, and would allow the boys to better understand the G2SS rules. A short while ago someone mentioned shooting paintball at targets as an acceptable activity. While it may not be what they want, it may be a way of giving them part of it.

I see a difference in what Hops describes and most of the rules that are mentioned in this thread. Hops' rule is an example of a troop tradition, and one that actually serves a purpose - that of teaching the boys how to prioritize work. If left alone, this "rule" may fade away, but the results stay. For example, during the first couple of years of our troop's existence, we had problems with getting the fire going in the morning. Usually some of the adults who are early risers would get up early and stoke the fire. We'd huddle around it, drinking our coffee. Then the boys would come out of their tents and immediately run to the fire which we had built. We finally made a rule ("the 3 stick rule") that said you had to bring three sticks to the fire before you could huddle around it in the morning. After several campouts of moaning and groaning, the guys finally figured it out. If they stored up some wood the night before, they wouldn't have to do that in the morning. (What a concept). Over time, the rule has disappeared, but we always have plenty of wood in the morning. I think that should be the purpose of most rules, to teach the boys the right way to do things.

I'm not aware of anything. We don't do skits at our COH. Perhaps they could come up with something where they tell an interesting fact about each scout. He could act out or dress for the part.

Our district advancement chair has developed a nice certificate to present to the Eagle Candidate. Since we can't officially call him an Eagle, the certicate says that he has successfully passed the BOR and is being recommended to national. It is signed by the members of the Board and is presented to him with his SM and parents in the room.

John submitted his post while I was submitting mine. That's my fear as well. I agree J-in-KC! Amen Brother!