EagleInKY

Thanks for the thoughts/advice. I purposely left out some of the details in order to allow for more feedback. - We've done the log thing (although we haven't tried it in triplicate). We even gave him a dedicated notebook, to no avail. We tried the check-in/check-out list, but they would just take things without signing them out. But we're going to try again. We discussed at one time having an adult QM to partner with the scouts. That would be an excellent idea. Now if I can only find an adult .... - Another idea I had was to have the QM send out an e-mail to the entire troop after each activity. That e-mail should state who has what and when they are due back. (We could have the Librarian do the same with Library books). - I like that idea of assigning the tents to someone before the campout. That would cause the patrols to have to plan a little more. That's not a bad idea. - We've written the patrol names & a number of each tent bag, but it's faded so much it is difficult to see. We've got a seamstress on the committee. I bet she could make us some tags to sew on that would be permanent. - I'm with Dan on not wanting to risk messing up a good program because of poor procedures. I'd rather have them live with the consequences on the activity. (ie. have to sleep outside or cram 5 boys in a 4 man tent). - wingunt: Oh how I wish we had a gear room or some form of storage at our CO. We can't even keep our trailer there. Don't get me wrong, tey give us full run of the building every Monday night. It's just a small building and they don't have room for us to store gear. We have one cabinet back in a corner of a classroom and that's all. We've talked about setting up a storage building outside. That's possibly a 2007 project. That's one of the problems. The tent comes into a troop meeting, gets handed to a QM, who has to make arrangements to get it to the trailer. - We're working on new procedures for patrol gear. We're not going to keep the tents in the trailer any more. The patrol gear will be in the hands of the patrol QM. That way, we'll know where the tents are and they won't just mysteriously appear/disappear from the trailer. Anyway, these are some good thoughts. Any more out there?

It sounds like you are doing the right things. Sorry, I misunderstood you to say you had only visited one meeting. My mistake. I try to stay pretty buttoned up with the new guys, but depending upon how chaotic it is, sometimes these things slip through. For example, we typically have most of our guys cross over at the same time from the same pack. This year was quite different. Six boys from four different sources crossed over during a period of 2 1/2 months. So, every couple of weeks it was a new meeting for these scouts. I was caught spending a lot of time with these new parents explaining scouts to them. The Troop Guide - who is my most mature and dependable scout - was doing his best to keep things moving. But, as it turned out, we realized a couple of weeks ago that we had never signed off on these simple requirements. (One reason was the new boys didn't have handbooks at first). Once we realized it, we addressed the situation pretty quickly. If a parent had of mentioned it, I would have responded the same way. So, the moral of that story is, maybe it's an honest mistake. It does happen with us. Since your son seems to be outgoing about showing he can do the work, have him do that with the troop leaders. Is there a Troop Guide assigned to his group? If not, is there an ASM assigned to new scouts? The SPL??? Have him say, "hey, I've done all these things, what do I need to do to get my scout badge?". Those would be beautiful words to my ears coming from a new scout to a Scoutmaster.

What is written and what is practiced in most cases is two different things. Not necessarily. Our troop meetings closely model what I described. Our "instruction" period varies. But for new scouts, it's almost always focused around basic scouting skills (i.e. early rank requirements). Im told Occasionally They will wear the regular Boy Scout uniform. This is certainly a sign of a poorly uniformed troop. We wear uniforms to every meeting unless there's a good reason. Maybe Im looking to deep into what is going on, this is the first Troop we (My son and I) seen Perhaps. Don't judge a troop one the basis of one meeting. We all have some "dogs" every now and then. You said the SM was out of town. I know I always worry when I can't be there. I usually miss 2 or 3 troop meetings a year. They sometimes have issues when I'm not there, but it's getting better. Still, the comment about uniforming makes me thing this is a pretty unorganized troop. I have not checked out other troops in the area. It's always a good idea to compare. I'd suggest visiting some other troops just to provide a measure. But as I suggested, don't judge on one meeting or event. But no one at the troop has asked him about it or anything else. In Boy Scouts, responsibility for advancement lies in the lap of the boy. It's not the parent's responsibility. Some troops force this issue too soon. We try to ramp them into this mindset over the course of the first year.

I've got a Life Scout working on his Eagle Project. It's a very agressive project for a local school. The cost in materials is going to be approximately $1000. The school is not providing any funds. They sent a letter home with all students, but yielded very little. He's also asked troop members to donate funds, but still has very little to show. As a side note, this is a scout in a family that has caused lots of problems for our troop. The boy himself is okay, but his dad has pretty much isolated themselves from everyone else. He did everything he could to try and break up the troop (unsuccessfully), so now he's taken his son who just crossed over to another troop down the road. I suspect this boy will leave the moment he earns his Eagle. So, now the troop committee chairman asks in a committee meeting last week for approval for the committee to give money to this boy for his project. His mom was there, so no one felt comfortable expressing their opinion. He put me on the spot to give an opinion. The best I could come up with on the spot was to offer "matching funds" from other donations in the troop. And, I recommended they cap it, as to not overcommit themselves. They decided to cap it at $200. Question, has any of your troops ever offered money toward anyone's Eagle Project? Is it within the rules?

I'm dealing with an issue in my troop that has me pulling out the reamining hairs on my head. SWMBO doesn't like the sight of me baldness, so I've got to do something. Here's the deal. We're a young troop (3 years now) and growing quite nicely (27 scouts). On the surface things look great (and overall they really are). But, we have a big problem with scouts returning gear. For example, after a campout, one scout from each tent takes it home, dries it out and brings it back to his QM. The QM has a list of these scouts and their tents. Unfortuantely, between leaving the campout and going on the next campout, the QM somehow always seems to lose the list, scouts seem to forget if they had a tent or not, and the tents aren't getting returned. This has been a growing problem for nearly a year. It started with 2 or 3 tents, then it was 4 or 5. In April, there were 7 tents missing. Finally, at last month's campout, there were 8 tents missing! I followed through with my promise (threat), and I made the guys sleep in what they had on the last campout. They were sleeping 4 boys in a 4 man tent, so you know they were packed in there. It's been a few weeks, I've mentioned it several times, as has the SPL, and the QM has called boys. I checked with the QM about how many have been turned in. We now have 11-12 not turned in. (We only have 14 tents to begin with). I spoke to the parents about it at a parent's meeting before our COH and at our last committee meeting. I got a lot of "it's not mes" and "maybe you should try this". But none of it was helpful. It seems like such an easy plan, but guys seem to muck it up nevertheless. This problem extends beyond tents to things like Merit Badge Books and other troop items as well. The tents are the most expensive item we're struggling with. What would you do in my case? I've been stressed about this that SWMBO is losing patience with me. The parents just don't seem to care. The boys seem clueless. What practices to your troops use? Is it just a case of our 12-13 year old QMs aren't mature enough and we need another year or two to develop them? Maybe I'm expecting too much of them.

Way to go OJ!!! And congrats to you Big E and SWMBO.

Some thoughts (in order of my personal preference): 1. Do something additional for the recipient. 2. Give the money to the charity. 3. Make a plaque ("Eagle Project of Troop 123"), have a photo framed and hung at the troop's meeting place, etc. ... 99. Keep the money for the troop ... 999. Keep the money himself.

This is a pretty open-ended set of questions, but I'll try to give you a by-the-book answer. Much of this is covered in Boy Scout Fast Start training, which is offered now online. The troop meeting is broken into seven sections: - Pre-opening activity (gathering game) - Opening (Flag ceremony, scout oath/law, announcements, etc.) - Instruction/Learning - Patrol Time - Inter-patrol competition / activity - Closing - Wrap-up We wear the regular Boy Scout uniform to all troop meetings. Occasionally, due to the theme or activity, activity uniforms may be worn. We usually wear activity uniforms in July and August as well. The troop meeting is run by the Senior Patrol Leader. In his absence, the Assistant SPL would run the meeting. Parts of the meeting may be run by other scouts or even assisted by leaders, depending upon the subject and the topic being discussed. As the SM, I try to roam around and keep a pulse on what is going. I usually spend some time talking with parents. Especially those that feel the need to discuss every detail with me. No matter how much I try, some will still bring things to me that their boys should be bringing into other scouts. But I digress. I'll talk some with the SPL, and he has what he needs to do his job. Currently, coaching/mentoring the SPL is a full-time job for me. If scouts need it, I'll conduct Scoutmaster's Conferences with them. Usually the scouts are broken out into manageable size groups (by patrol, by rank, etc.). I'll linger around and see if the leader needs any help. If so I'll chime in. The ASMs do the same. When we close, I usually make a few announcements. I'll clarify what the SPL says if it is needed. And, I'll try to do a Scoutmaster's minute. I sometimes don't do it if I've already been talking to much. An ideal troop meeting is where I've spent lots of times talking to boys one-on-one, a moderate amount of time talking to adults, and the only talking I'm doing to the whole group is in the opening and the Scoutmaster's minute. So, result1, what is your interest/role in scouting?

Venividi - Our troop is experiencing the exact same problem, on several fronts. We just did a MB Book inventory for Summer Camp and there are 30-40 books missing. Top it off, the current Librarian never got the list of "who had what" from the old Librarian. The old librarian has a blank look on his face when asked about it.

"The district executive likes it that way" That's because scouting professionals are measured (paid) based upon numbers, both units and scouts. If he loses this unit, he'll have to get another one started somewhere. If he can just get it to hang on through recharter, he'll survive another year. I know it sounds cynical, but it's the thinking behind the trouble several councils have gotten into with inflated numbers.

I see it happening quite a bit around here. Perhaps it's because we have lots of troops, many of them relatively small (10-20 boys). I've had three scouts (two of which were brothers) leave to go to other troops. Personally, I was happy on both occasions. It took boys and/or parents who were not satisfied with our program and allowed them to pursue scouting in another venue. I'd rather they do this than just quit. I've also seen big exoduses when a group of parents band together against the SM. I've seen this happen several (around 5 or 6) times. In most cases, they've gone off and formed their own troop. In at least one case, they merged into a struggling troop and more or less took it over. IMHO, these cases have been caused primarily by adults putting their own interests in front of the scouts.

Good luck to OJ. This will be a nice belated Father's Day gift for you, too. All my best - John

You've merged, you just haven't realized it yet. By taking them under your wing, you essentially disengaged the existing parents from any reason to step up and save the pack. The only way this pack will survive is if the CO steps up and says that they want to keep a pack, and then follows through with recruiting new Cubs and leaders. If that doesn't happen, well, what's done is done. Best of luck to you.

I'm going to disagree with the previous two posters (Oren & Lynda) who are on the opposite extremes (handle it yourself or pass the buck to council). I'm also contradicting my own earlier post to some degree. The process is quite clear. The Committee Chairman is responsible for recruiting leaders and submitting them to the CO for approval and then to council. If the CO doesn't want to approve them, then the council doesn't matter. And, even if the CO is okay with them, he could be turned down by the council/national. So, follow the process, and see what happens.

Welcome to the forum. Many of us can certainly understand your concern about the time commitment. Many spouses feel like "scouting widows/widowers" at times. But the pay you receive is great - not my monetary standards, but by the smiles in their faces and the impact you see on them years down the road. Keep the faith, you'll be paid great dividends.

Ooh, ooh, let me try. I love word games. If you were to ask me "what does it mean to take part in a basketball game?". I would say it would mean I was a player on a team, suited up to play the game. I might be a bench warmer, but I would be there, with my team, doing what was asked of me. I would not take it to mean that I was a cheerleader, a fan, selling drinks in the concession stand, selling tickets, promoting the game, picking uniforms, or any other behind the scenes administrative stuff. Now, if you asked me "what does it mean to take part in running a basketball game or league?". Then I would be inclined to include those other items. Therefore, when I read "take part in service projects", I assume that a scout is out there swinging hammers, digging holes, painting, planting,.... etc. He's "taking part in" the service project. If he's helping a scout plan, promote or raise money for his service project, I'd say he's helping administer it, not helping "do it".

Welcome to our virtual roundtable Tom. We look forward to getting to know you better. It's great to hear that things are going well and you and your son are enjoying the trip together.

You're right Ed. The "you can't count Eagle service project hours for Star and Life" is a "Scouting Urban Legend" that many of us have fallen for. I only found out the policy after a scout challenged me (politely) on why there's such a stupid rule. I did some checking, only to find out there was no such rule. I went back and apoligized to the scout for being duped. I now know the truty.

I've had a similar situation with a lad in my troop. I've written about him before. Dad doesn't like me much. Seems I took "control" away from him somehow. Long story, I won't go into it now. I'm now pretty upfront with this boy (he's 14). He's starting to work on his Eagle Project. He'd bring me the plan, I reviewed it, gave him some feedback. He'd bring it back, with some changes, but not everything. This continued for a while. I'm pretty sure I know what was happening. Dad was telling him that he didn't have to do what I said, that he had everything he needed. The only thing was, I was not going to sign it until I had it. He proceeded to try the same move on the committee. Eventually I sat him down with the Troop Committee Chairman. I explained to him very bluntly that this was not an issue about his dad or me. I know his dad doesn't agree with me, but the truth is, he needs my support right now and he needs to listen to me. I explained to him that this wasn't personal, and I was not picking on him, I just wanted to make sure he covered all the bases before he submitted his plan to the district. Once he realized that I wasn't trying to stand in his way, he completed the plan per my suggestion and is moving ahead. Point is, I think sometimes parents "pollute" their kids heads with opinions of us. Sometimes it's best to acknowledge it, but explain that those issues have nothing to do with him in his SPL role. He needs to perform, and he needs to meet the expectations of the job. Good luck. I think it's time for a good heart-to-heart SM Conference with him. If you think it will help, have another adult leader with you. Not to double-team him, but to protect yourself from him misrepresenting what you said to his father.

Our guys still do this every once in a while. Don't limit yourself. You can include cheese, mushrooms, garlic, any kind of spice and lipton onion soup for flavoring. Get the heavy ziplock freezer bags. Squeeze all the air out of the one with the eggs in it. Then put them inside another bag. This helps keep the bags from melting on the side of the pot. Keep rotating them around the pot, so one doesn't get stuck to the side. Bring flour tortillas and make it an omlette wrap. Mmmm, good. Well, it's not Bob Evans, but it does pretty good.

Did he fill out an adult application to be the adult partner? If not, I'd make sure he did. My guess is the council would then give you some guidance. Contacting your DE for advise is good. I do not think I would allow this man around the den until things were worked out. This may be one of those difficult times as a leader where we have to confront a parent and find out what's going on. This should be the responsibility of the Committee Chairman.

Tough dealing with parents, isn't it. Welcome to the forums, I think you'll find some good advice here. There's a number of ways to reduce the appearance of favoritism of your son. It sounds like you are already doing the basic one, that of not signing off any of his requirements. To take it a step farther, don't do anything outside of the troop setting that you wouldn't do with any other scout. This may sound harsh, but I don't push my son to advance, nor do I sit him down and force him to work on his Eagle project plans. Now, if he asks for help, that's fine, but I don't push. I've had the issue of my son being the one that often advances first. I don't do anything deliberately to slow him down, but I don't try to push him to be first, either. We've had the issue of a fellow scout that seems to live to one-up my son. He's declared that he's going to be the "first" to make Eagle. I've encouraged my son to not try and race him to Eagle. Take his time and do it according to his own schedule. Don't let this other scout mess with his head. If he doesn't put up a "fight", then the other scout has a shallow victory. As for taking the job or not. It really depends upon whether you are really cut out for the job. SM can be the most rewarding job in all of scouting. It can also be the most frustrating at times. I thoroughly enjoy the adventures and watching young men grow. I get frustrated at times with teenage attitudes and that general "who cares" attitude that seems to hit them around 13 or 14. But overall, it's a great time and I love to see them pull things together.

Welcome to the forum. We always like having youth in here who can give their perspective on things. My family loves the SC coast. Charleston is a beautiful city. Our troop is coming down to Patriot's Point next winter.

Bill, Welcome to the forum. I'm sure you'll find the campfire warm and the conversation lively. We look forward to getting to know you better.

(Feeling the tug on his shirt sleeve, EiKY slips back into the room with his buddy, Barry). "Gee, Barry, I was trying to stay out of this." Okay, do I agree with what this troop is doing and do I think they are adding a requirement? No, I don't agree with what they are doing because I believe they are adding a requirement. BUT, is this worth splitting a good troop or making a federal case out of? No way. Is it worth running off a good SM? Nope! If the troop is as successful as gilski indicates it is, I'd stick with it. I'd try to get the system changed, at least to the point of not making it mandatory. As Barry, I and a few others have said, it's not an altogether bad idea. Perhaps it can be integrated in as a way to get more boys involved in the leadership. I've got to admit, gilski has patience. If he had already done 25-30 hours and was acting as SPL, I would think he's already shown a lot of leadership. I think it's pretty tough on a kid to make him do more. But I'm glad your son went ahead and did it and didn't fight it. Now, to address some of these other points. Are we supposed to be identical clones of each other? NO WAY. Should a scout be able to move across the country to another troop and have all his previous advancement accepted? OF COURSE. May he find that his new troop is tougher on the POR requirement or doesn't let passing the offering plate at church count as service hours? ABSOLUTELY. I have no problem with that. Even within our troops, we don't treat all boys alike. I've got boys that have real challenges (mental, physical). I hold a different standard for them. I've some some boys (like my son) who are extremely talented leaders. I absolutely hold them up to the highest standard. I also have boys who always look for the easy way out. I find myself always having to push them to do a little more. I'm trying to get each scout to step up and perform to his maximum potential. It's obvious here that some struggle with this. It's nice to say the program should be equal and identical for all, but that's not reality. My son has seen me struggle with a situation with an Eagle candidate. I've allowed this particular scout a little latitude in some things that I probably wouldn't with others. I did this because he is an extremely insecure kid with an extremly overbearing father. His dad is borderline psychotic and constantly complains to council and other adults about me. (I've written about him before, we could dedicate a whole thread to him). I make sure to tread lightly and not give his dad any amunition. But, on the other hand, I've cautioned the lad that his dad should probably stay far away from his project when he works on it. This is because his dad will take over if he's present. I know for a fact he will, that's his nature. Now, will I approve his project if he goes ahead and lets his dad help. Sure, unless I found out his dad did all the leading. What's the point of this? We need to be people of reason that understand the overall goals and vision. Adhering to the rules is great, but let's not blow this out of proportion. I mean, seriously, it's not like they are doing something serious like using the terms "Class A" & "Class B". Let's focus on something more important. Okay, I digressed and rambled on a bit, but that seems to fit this thread. I know that I have come up with what I thought were good ideas, until I realized the implications. I've also sometimes done some things that I thought were within the rules, until someone questioned me on it. For example, I used to think hours worked on someone else's Eagle Project couldn't be counted for the other ranks. That's a fairly common mistake by SMs. In fact, I'm pretty sure I was told it in SM Training! Once I dug into it, I found out that there was no such rule. So I've changed my criteria for approving service hours. Bottom line, I think Fscouter's recommendation was best "The Scoutmaster could discuss and develop a plan with the Patrol Leaders Council to encourage boys to take leadership of troop service projects. This may meet the objectives of the adult leaders without imposing a rank requirement."