EagleInKY

It might work, but I've found trying to reason with teenage boys about as difficult task to do as anything. Generally, the boys who don't want to wear the uniform have always been that way. The ones that do wear the uniform have always been that way as well. I see very little change in attitude toward the uniform over their tenure in scouting.

Just to back up what has been said. The property belongs to the CO, not the leaders. When they "voted to leave their Chartered organization, and moved from one Church to another local church.", they really simply decided to change units. And, just as if any individual decided to move from one unit to another, they have no claims on the unit's property. Sidenote - when an entire unit moves from one CO to another, the property nearly always ends up going with the unit. That's probably because most COs don't want the bad press/public pressure of not allowing the unit to keep its gear. But this is completely within the control of the CO, not the leaders.

Interesting, we've got a trip planned next Spring down to Patriot's Point, SC (USS Yorktown). One of the sidetrips is the boat trip out to Fort Sumpter. I guess units break G2SS rules every week down there.

Our district has the troop provide one person, but it is encouraged to be someone on the committee. The idea is that it's someone he'll recognize and help put him at ease. The other members (usually 5 total) are the DAC and 2-3 others he brings in. They are often scouters from other units or community leaders.

We approach it from both directions as well. First, at camp, we monitor what's happening in the MB classes. Our camp started publishing a daily status on each class, by scout. These are kept in binders in the Scoutmaster's lounge (in the admin building). I check them a couple of times (mid-week and toward the end of the week) to see how things are going. I also try to keep eyes and ears open. If I get wind of an issue, I usually take it straight to the program director. I've found going to the MB counselor directly yields very little results. Over the past few years our camp has focused on improving the quality of MB instruction and we've noticed a significant improvement in it. The second approach we use is to go straight to the scout. A few years ago we learned that the Mammal Study instructor signed them off on the report because they talked as a group about mammals during class. Now, I just happened to be walking by that day and listened in. There "talking" amounted to the MB counselor reading some text verbatim out of the MB pamphlet for a couple of minutes. We found out about this late (Friday or Saturday) and were unable to get it resolved with the camp counselors. So, at the next troop meeting I had a conversation with the boys. It revolved around "a Scout is Trustworthy" and whether they had actually completed the MB. The boys all agreed that they had not completed the work. (Well, all but one, but he succombed to peer-pressure). They agreed to write a report and complete the MB. I've used this latter approach a few times. I think it reinforces the scout Law and makes sure we maintain some integrity with our MB program.

When you filled out his transfer paperwork, you should have given them his old council and troop number. This allows them to reconcile records. I've never had this happen, but I understand that it is supposed to work that way. Let us know, because I've got a Star Scout that will be in this situation in a year or so.

Ain't it great when it works out so well? Nice story.

It's really up to the MBC to decide. Obviously it's a lot to expect each scout to have complete planning responsibility for this. Very few would complete the MB if that were the case. Since your campouts should be boy-planned and boy-led, every scout should have the opportunity to participate in the planning. In other words they should decide things like what type of float trip they want to go on (white water rafting, canoe down still water, canoe down rushing water, camp on the river, etc. All our buys have the opportunity to voice their opinions on these things and we talk through the plans. Truth is, we know, that half of them sit there and don't have a clue what's going on. They get the benefit of the work the others did. But, there again, we are a reflection of real life, aren't we?

Germ - It's not up to you, it's up to the MBC. He needs to get a new MBC now that camp is over. If the MBC is notified that he was working under the wrong requirements, he should be able to look up the correct ones and see if the MB is complete. It's possible that there may be new requirements that he has not done. Acco - When I see blue cards come in from camp that were obviously not earned, I talk to the scouts. We talk about the points of the scout law (trustworthy, obedient, etc.) and then talk about whether a MB was really earned. Scouts will then normally admit that they didn't earn the MB and change the status to partial. It's a good lesson for them.

Sounds like dad is driving things the way he wants them done. Probably found a SM he can manipulate. The trick will be when they fill out the Eagle Paperwork next month. But seriously, the Eagle paperwork will catch timing discrepencies. My guess is that they will then get them straightened out.

Turning blue cards into council? Never heard of that around here. Not saying it hasn't been done, but I've never heard of it or done it.

There are a number of ways to form patrols. The SM-managed approach is not a good one. Beaver - "I agree that ideally the boys should determine the make-up of their own patrols. How do you handle it when there are two boys who DO NOT need to be in a patrol together? No, I'm not talking about not getting along. I'm talking about boys who can't seem to keep from getting into trouble when they are together. " I used old Bob White's approach to organizing patrols. This worked pretty well. This is where the boys tell you who they want to be in a patrol with (and if you want, who they DON'T) want to be with. Then you do a little cypherin', and come up with a patrol structure. It's based upon the boy's wishes, but you do the organization. This gives you a little latitude in breaking up that. I chose not to do that this year, and the patrol is paying the price for it now. But that's how they learn, eh? Beavah - We employ a combination. We use the NSP for the first 6-12 months, and then used mixed age up to around 15. In our next iteration, we're probably going to introduce a senior patrol. This would be made up with guys who are 15 or so, higher in rank, and want to do some adventurous stuff on their own. There's been some interest in doing this and we are probably going to give it a try next year. You are correct, patrols tend to shuffle a little more with these methods. But as I remember the way it used to be, you got slammed into a patrol of all ages when you joined the troop, and it was usually based upon which patrol needed the numbers, not where your friends were. Or maybe that was just my old troop. Anyway, as long as it's a method that gives the boys the ability to choose, I'm all for it. I think there are a variety of ways to put it in practice. Acco's is certainly a creative approach. I'll have to think on that one.

E76 - Our approach is very similar to yours. I've spoken to the DAC about it, because other Districts in our council follow the "official" process. There's no interest in changing things, so we're on our own. One thing that I think we do different is with registering MBCs. If someone (parent, friend, grandparent, etc.) agrees to council a MB, and they are not a registered scouter, we go through the process of registering them. They fill out the MBC form and the BSA registration. However, we never hear any confirmation back from council. We generally assume no news is good news.

Some good comments already. I would second the idea that the #1 item is a well-trained staff with a positive attitude. They need to act like they WANT to be there working with your scouts. The second thing is a well-run program. This is the job of the program director and commissioners. Well-run MB programs, fun evening activities, good campfires, etc. are all part of what make Summer Camp fun. The third thing is a diverse program, with attractions for all ages of scouts. We need to keep the first year guys busy but also challenge the fourth and fifth year guys so they'll want to come back. The final thing I would mention is facilities. Whether it's the dining hall or the latrines, it's hard to enjoy a camp that is in bad shape. I think food is important, but we can (and have) survived a week with mediocre food.

If you do a search on "New Scout Patrol" or "NSP", you'll see that there has been a lot of debate over this in the past. Personally, I support the NSP, and not just because it's the way endorsed by the BSA. I believe the NSP provides a transition period for new young scouts to get integrated into the troop. As has been mentioned, the boys in the NSP are grouped with guys their own age. A troop guide and an assigned ASM works with them, along with other older scouts. Their goal during the first 6-12 months is to get the boys up to understanding how boy scouts works. Most troops phase boys from NSPs to "regular" patrols after that time period. This also ties into a program called "First Class/First Year" (FCFY). The concept of this is that if a boy makes First Class by the end of his first year, he's more likely to stay involved and be successful in scouting. Personally, I've found it usually takes 12-18 months for most boys to make First Class. However, FCFY is still a goal that we strive for. Usually older scouts are put into a seperate patrol since they are more likely to go out and do some fun things on their own. 15,16,17 year old scouts may be interested in a survival campout or doing some adventurous trips that younger scouts aren't ready for. This gives them an avenue to do those types of things, while remaining in the context of the troop. Hope these ideas help you. Good luck.

Thank goodness for a happy ending. However, I'm constantly amazed at how many groups ignore these basic safety rules: 1) Never lose sight of the group, if they are going too fast, make them slow down. 2) Always have an adult or very mature scout as the sweeper (last member of group). 3) Always do headcounts at every rest break. (They didn't realize he was missing until they stopped for the evening).

This was an area where our troop was struggling. I realized that the ASMs didn't necessarily understand/share my vision. We were out of synch on a few occasions. Now we have a quarterly "Scoutmaster's Summit". It's usually a few hours long, and we have plenty of sweets & coffee. I'll work in a little training, and then have an agenda of topics to discuss. It's usually focused on issues in delivering the program, scouts who may be having issues, brainstorming opportunities to do things better, etc.

A few years ago a troop in my district couldn't get the itenerary they wanted from Seabase, so they built their own trip. They found some outfitters that catered to scout groups and built a similar experience, for a little less money. I've lost contact with the old SM, or I'd get you a name.

There is no explicit prohibition, as E pointed out. The use of any power tool must be overseen by an adult. As long as it's legal, you should be able to do it. I know of an Eagle Project where they were going to rent an auger to dig postholes. As long as an adult is running it, they were in the clear.

Okay, if I'm understanding correct, the scout counted both Cycling and Swimming as Eagle Required MBs in order to obtain Star. He has now earned all the necessary ER MBs for Eagle. One of those, let's assume Cycling, is listed on his Eagle Required list on his Eagle application. Swimming is listed as one of the additional MBs. Am I correct? If so, this is perfectly legitimate. Confusing as all get-out to explain, but very, very legal. I've seen it done.

YPT issue, I certainly hope not. Although I'm sure some here will think it should be. No, it's an inappropriate teenage act that should be dealt with like any other.

I agree with Fscouter. Can he do it? Yes. But should he? NO In our troop, requirements are signed off by the following people (in approximate order of how often they do it): 1) Troop Guide 2) ASM of new scouts 3) SPL or ASPL 4) Instructor or older scout assigned to instruct by Troop Guide 5) PL (for those scouts not in the NSP patrol). 6) Other ASM 7) SM Since our second year, we've had over 20 new scouts, over 1/2 are First Class our higher. I best I have signed less than 10 requirements (excluding the SM conference, I'm the SM).

His verbal abuse toward scouts gives me cause for concern. He needs to be reassigned to a role where he doesn't have direct interaction with scouts. I'd suggest he become a committee member until he can change his ways. Sometimes a person just needs to have his actions pointed out to him, along with the consequences. I don't think the tent flaps constitute a YPT issue. He should first try to wake people up without opening the flaps. I've had to do it a time or two, but banging on the outside usually works.

There's that old saying "a lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part". This boy had time to straighten his act out, complete his Merit Badges and complete Eagle according to the rules. Based upon what I've read here, I see no reason to give him special treatment. I would not sign his Eagle app and would wish him the best on his trip. Now, if he wanted to continue to work on his merit badges, and could document the work and communicate back to counselors, I'd consider letting him complete things while he's on the road. The paperwork could be completed prior to his 18th birthday, and he has six more months to get his BOR done.

Three and a half years ago (wow, it's hard to believe it's been that long), we were faced with a similar dilemna. There were several troops in the area that boys went to, mostly adult ran, one a bona-fide Eagle manufacturing plant. The troop that was loosely affiliated with our pack was struggling. They had lots of older scouts, very few younger ones. It was one of those "boy-led into the ground" troops. New boys would come in, but there wasn't anything designed for them because the 16-17 year olds made all the decisions and didn't have a program for younger ones. Their troop meetings closely resembled the ones you described. Some members of the troop committee approached me about becoming SM and working to change the culture. I thought about it briefly, but decided that it wasn't worth it. We started a new troop and have had very few regrets. There are times I wish we had the older scouts to be mentors to the younger ones, but in reality, we probably would have struggled for years rebuilding the culture. As for starting from scratch, that takes time and energy as well. New scouts are coming from an adult-run program (Cub Scouts). It took us three years to get to boy-leadership. And we're still struggling with it, largely because the strongest leaders aren't necessarily in that oldest group. I guess what I'm trying to say is that both approaches (starting new or changing the culture) takes time and energy. It's a minimum of three years with either approach. I wish you the best.