Eagledad

My apologies to shortridge and the rest of the forum members. Qwazse's response is soooo much better and respectable. I still have so much to learn. Thanks qwaze. Barry

You are assuming there is only one reason for our opinions like religious morality. My opinions are based from life experiences, but are supported by my spiritual guidance. Mothers and fathers instinctively have different approaches to raising kids because they instinctively view situations differently. The differences balance each others reactions toward their kids to where most kids in a father/mother homes grow up basically more balanced than a home where the two human instincts aren't balanced. Most human behavior experts agree, or agreed until political correct activist forced a tamer opinion. So, the challenge is how the BSA could discuss the differences of fathers and mothers without implying suggesting ideal situations. I think that is where qwazse was saying. Maybe there isn't a good approach in this political environment. Barry

I don't think so, and here is why. I also regard them as inferior too. I don't base that off of religious beliefs, politics, or emotion. My opinion is the result from life experiences after watching several generations of families in similar situations. So what! If you don't agree, then respectively say so like an without being judgement. Funny, I didn't pay attention to who I was responding to until your last post. You seem to really struggle with respecting posters of which you don't agree. If you have a different opinion, then just be honest and strait forward instead of trying to cleverly disparage the poster with judgmental guilt. We may still agree to disagree, but at least we leave with our integrity. Barry

Yah, I think it was more than simply using the words of the poster. The question was for me offensive and out of line. It was not inquisitive to understand the poster better. It was derogatory by implying the poster for you was too judgemental. Respecting opinions of which don't agree is challenging, but it is scout like. Barry

I was once given some sound advice from a forum member to hold off responses until our emotions and judgement don't control the content. I haven't always followed that advice, but it has saved me much embarrassment over the years. Barry

The challenge for adults is knowing skills for filling in the gaps where scouts struggle. For example I found that 80% of the scouts in our NYLT courses had "NO" guidance for how to run a PLC meeting. The adults basically threw them into the den of lions by telling them to run the meeting without teaching any skills. I learned that most adults don't really know specific skills to plan and run meetings, they just know how to be methodical. But scouts don't have a life experiences to think about what is required for meeting agendas. Our NYLT participants where taught a simple meeting plan used for all meetings and patrol corners as well as simple plan for planning meetings. That gave those scouts such a huge lift in running meetings that the SMs told me they were learning from the SPLs. It's easy to say that National doesn't know what they don't, so they can't teach everything. But I found that the SPL Handbook does give simple guidelines for running the PLC meeting and PL Handbook for Patrol corners. So, there are good starting places. IF the troop would just start with the simple guidelines in their handbooks, then the holes that stump the scouts are a lot easier to work through. I certainly agree adults need more guidance for Patrol Method. I developed a Patrol Method course for our council. But, if the adults would search a little more for BSA sources to specific situations, they would find that there is a lot of information. Especially in the age of Internet. But, adults, for whatever reason, choose to teach scouts their own personal techniques that are usually very complicated and confusing. If we should teach the adults anything, it's to search their resources to the problem first. Barry

Seems like a reasonable, intellectual, and pragmatic approach to THIS topic. However, not only have I not seen your reasonable approach attempted during the gay and transgender topics, they were basically ignored by both National and frowned against by many members of this forum. So, I don't expect much cooperation on family dynamics by National. I don't hold much hope for the forum. Barry

Whatever is encouraged, it should be for the character growth of the scout. The goal of the scouting program is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law (BSA Mission). In short, character. Character is simply judging self-behavior and making choices without being influenced by our personal nature and temptations. I think the phone would be a great tool toward developing character because it is such a strong temptation and repetition of habits. The scout is forced to make a choice against his nature and bad habits for the good of making the right choice. Adults see phones as an annoying distraction. But annoying distractions are the best kinds of teachers of self-discipline. And it's not just a great teacher of character for the scouts, it's a great practice for adults of using tools to develop discipline. I compare it to the uniform. Scouts struggle with the uniform because they are concerned about their identity. Adults struggle because the uniform represents respect and not wearing it correctly shows disrespect. Adults need to shift their ideals of the uniform to developing the habit of making ethical and moral choices. Scouts need to learn and understand the practical reasoning for the uniform and what it represents to the scouting community. It requires both groups to grow and mature in their respective places in the scouting program. The adults learn better skills for helping scouts grow, and the scout develop a better self-discipline and making decisions. Barry

Every troop is different in their policies and procedures, so I'm not sure how far a Webelos leader would want to go. Of course joining an existing troop has it's own challenges because they may not have a program that fits your goals for your scouts. This is what we ran into as we looked. So, we decided to start a new troop. And that was much easier. Barry

The most important part of patrol method is understanding what the goal is for the scouts. If you don't know where you are going, how do you know when you are off the trail? Barry

For the boys side, get the SPL Handbook and Patrol Leader Handbook. For the adults side, set up the adults camp site 100 yards away from the Patrol camp sites and wait for them to tell you what to do. The adults should also use the SPL Handbook and PL Handbook so they know what the patrols are doing. Barry

I have no proof, but I believe the BSA has been forced by economics to turn the program into a YMCA style family scout program. For a lot of reasons, funding can't support the present higher risk outdoor values program and they are in survival mode. It will be a way for families to get some outdoor time together. It will not be a character building program anymore than YMCA is viewed as a character building program. And, based on my experience of the kind of families the program will attract, it will develop an even more nerdy reputation. I think scouts in Europe survives being more traditional is because the outside influences that are killing the program here doesn't really exist in the culture over there. Ironically, I believe the GSUSA will one day be considered the more traditional scout program. That is how much I think the BSA will change. Barry

I think the BSA will have to force some direction somehow. I believe the membership changes will heavily burden the program with unexperienced adults who will require some hand holding to keep the program moving forward. The induction of female leaders around 1990 forced National to completely overhaul the training program for troops. This membership change is going to be a lot worse because all the parents will view themselves as leaders. Even the few adults with experience will be pushed hard to conform to demands. Barry

Wow qwazse, that’s pretty deep. You never posted anything I didn’t enjoy reading (oh ya, there was Eagle thing, wasn’t there?), but I need some time with this one. Ok, Lake Erie, buttressed bluffs, and obstructed views. I’m sure those are key. Thinking...thinking...🤔 Barry

There is no debate, my response to your demeaning choice of word does says something about my religious beliefs and something I can’t change. Homophobic is a derogatory trigger word that says no tolerance of homosexual behavior. Many religions believe homosexuality to be immoral. Members of those religions have no choice no matter how they feel about it. I can see that offends you, but I’m sure even your religion teaches a behavior of tolerance. That you can’t think of a better choices of words exposes your anger and bias. Sore winner? Ive learned over years that more often than not choosing silence makes a more powerful statement and reflects maturity. Barry

Well, that a pretty anti religious statement. Ironically it also suggests an exclusive program as well. So many unbias (friendly) words could have been chosen to make the same point. Barry

The program is loosing it's way. Scouting is about boys finding themselves through their bad decisions, not get kicked out for making one. In fact, our motto is: the troop is a safe place to make bad decisions. The more, the better. There really isn't a protocol, you need to talk to the COR and CC. Approach them calmly and with questions. Let them work this out first. Barry

I think he is right. I believe it will be the best program for the families that want the kind of scouting that is coming. No program can be all things to all people. National is changing the filter of the kind of membership they want for their future. A pretty good comparison is the Canadian Scouts. Their program is no longer the world renown premier youth scouting program that it was 30 years ago, but it is attractive to a lot of members. Barry

Hey! Walk the talk! Wait a minute, that doesn’t make sense either.😳 barry

Yes. The posters honestly believe what they are saying. We had a long discussion about this last week. Just because you agree doesn't mean they don't believe it themselves. Are you saying the posters themselves aren't intellectual or that their posts aren't presented intellectually? Never mind, there is no good answer. You seem to be trying to convince me that some condensation at other people is justifiable. Under which point of the Scout Law would you teach that to a scout? Barry

Wow! That is quite good. I can see clever satirical humor is the method to get malicious posts past the moderators on this forum. I admit being enthralled by the shrewd approach for throwing the clever spiteful wit in the faces of target audience, who themselves laugh, if not applaud. Calling this form of dialogue "unscout-like" just seems adolescent. This is adult condensation at it's best. Still, as good and entertaining as it is, the source of motivation is still uncontrolled emotional without balance of humility. It's directing anger to belittle and denigrate opposing opinions. Is that how we want our youth to discuss differences? The wit is clever, but is it mature. On the face, such humor would be a welcomed tool to balance the emotion generated by opposing ideas of which we disagree. But does it sway minds. Does it show respect? Would it really be a under the category of intellectual dialogue? Barry

That's pretty good and I must agree. I was talking to my daughter about some things that bothered her and I realized that she was confusing bullying with being offended. I think bullying is being so over used today that it's loosing the real value of meaning. Real Life is hard and to survive we must learn how to deal with those things that cause us stress. I have said often that a troop environment is real life scaled down to a boys size. The typical troop program puts the scouts in a lot small stressful situations to practice and learn how to handle big stressful situations in their adult life. I use to say to visiting Webelos parents that we are preparing their sons to handle that day when the wife is sick in bed, the kids are crying for breakfast and the boss is calling to find out why he is late for work. "Safe spaces" seems to be a term for young adults who didn't learn how to deal with stress while they were young. Barry

Well said. Barry

What about scouting for you makes the program bigger than the changes being implemented on it.? Barry

Openly? Closet? The parents were fine with who they are and who knew. In all cases they understood that the unit (life) has restrictions, so it wasn't a big deal. The reason I found NJs post interesting is because all the parents I spoke with wanted their kids to make "their" choices based on "their" experiences. You suggest a tone of barriers and close mindedness. The tone around our parents was pragmatic and open. Barry