Eagledad

Double, maybe even triple the camping requirements and restrict the number of scouts elected to 1 for every 15 scouts in the troop. Barry

LOL, I truly feel your pain. There seems to be no end of redefinition of expression during these Political Correct times. What next, burn all the old books? But, to be fair, OA started out as a service organization. Well, service and camping organization. The early Arrowmen focus on service and outdoorsmenship They were the best of the best. Selection was more stringent, which is why most Arrowmen early days were looked up as the better Best) Scouts in the unit. I think if OA is to make some kind of comeback, the organization needs to go back to the higher standards of outdoorsmenship and selfless service. I'm not sure how they can go about in this toxic social media world, but even today, there are scouts, then there are the real scouts. OA needs to focus on selfless service (which are really outward actions of the Oath and Law), and expertise in outdoor activities. Those scouts will standout out as noble in the scouting movement. But, I think the change will have to come from within, National hasn't got a clue. Barry

Call the local scout office and ask them for the numbers to the units close to you. Ask them for the day and time of their meetings and go visit. You will likely run into friends. Barry

But they are very close. And the committee sits at the pleasure of the CO, not equal. Council does not like to upset COs because they would rather the COR be the bad guy with enforcement. Council will train and counsel COs, but they rarely wrestle with them. Barry

I'm holding little hope for common sense in our culture anymore. The local paper commentary congratulated the new girls joining the Boy Scouts. "Now the girls aren't treated like second class citizens". My first thought was what the GSUSA thought of the comment. Barry

Ok, I ask the wrong question. You think you were being kind? Sometimes you surprise me. Barry

Do you really believe that’s the same thing! Sheesh! Barry

Up until the 60s (Bill Hillcourt), the BSA had visionaries and founders who when they spoke, everybody listened. We don't have that today. There really is no accountability because there isn't a vision to relate with. Oh, the BSA has their Vision and Mission Statements that hold many of us accountable, but I would guess 2% of scouters could even get close to repeating the intent, much less the words of those goals. Scouters work outside the lines today because there is very little instruction to describe those lines. And if they find themselves in trouble, they dig in because they invested so much of themselves into the role. Humility is rare in this culture. Barry

And to be fair, most of what we get here is one side of the story. As well as our responses tend to be idealistic because we don't have all the story to be pragmatic. We had a troop of 250 scouts with a very Eagle Mill reputation. When I asked some of their scouts and parents why they joined that troop, it was because they really like the program. Is that really so bad? Not my style, but 250 families had no complaints. Barry

It depends a lot on the program. The adults camp is set around 100 yards away from the scouts. Or as out of sight as we can. The adults even reserve a separate campsite at summer camp. The distance prevents that father son camping question. Each have to go out of their way to see each other. Barry

Is there any other benefit to learning skills? What about the practice of setting the goal of learning a skill and developing a plan to to reach the goal? And what about the practice of communication to ask for help to learn, or to show the learned skill. Scouts who practice the traits of initiative, planning, and communication have more self confidence to push the boundaries of their comfort zone. They accel in many of their life decisions, not just advancement. As some here are describing of their own experience, consider the life skills a scout can develop through the practice of learning skills during their scouting experience. Barry

Run your Fall open house a couple of weeks before Cub recruitment night in September, and be sure and get the names and phone numbers of all the youth who visited. Make sure the list is divided up into age groups. Call the parents and explain that you are building the dens and you are just verifying they are still interested. If yes (and most are), ask the parent if they would be interested in being one of the den leaders. Make sure you use plural leaders so they don't feel singled out as THE leader. Its a couple hours of calling, but in most cases we had all our dens built and ready to go before Cub recruitment night. If you get enough new leaders, you might even be able to get District to send a trainer for a private Den Leader training session before they do their official district training. You will be rocking and rolling right out of the box. Barry

Yep, so are our opinions of not focusing on advancing so much. One other thing, our opinions are for all troops, not just one gender. Seems to make a difference I wasn't expecting. Barry

Does your post even make sense? Are all the girls 15 years old? Are there no 11 year olds? Inexperienced leaders shouldn't be forcing advancement so fast. Experienced leaders shouldn't be focused on advancing so fast. All you are talking about is advancing. Why? I admit I haven't led girls, but I can't imagine they joined the BSA only to advance. Surely one of them wants to sleep in a tent and hike up a trail. Surely. Adventure, adventure, adventure. Barry

Boys leave a fun adventurous troop because they aren't advancing? I have never seen that. I know of a lot of scouts who took two years to earn 2nd class, but that was because advancement was the least fun part of their scouting experience. I think you have the right objective of a program letting the scout choose his path of advancing, but the example you are using is not common. Something is missing. We coach adults to build a fun program where any scout can advance "at his pace", whatever that pace is. And quite frankly, that is a difficult program to build because it requires a unit that can attend to a scouts request for learning and showing off new skills 365 days a year. It also requires an adult staff that isn't concerned that some scouts are much slower than others. I'm curious to learn more about this troop. Barry

Ah, we must be talking about your troop. We think differently. Advancement is toward the last subject I discuss with the adults of new units. Advancement starts adults off in an accountability frame of mind. New scouts want to learn how to set up a tent and start a fire. Can they fish at the lake? What is this KP stuff? Adventure, adventure, adventure. Barry

Because even in the best units, all scouts advancing together at the same pace that fast implies a fast track advancement program. Scouts are individuals with individual desires and motivations. I've yet to see a program where pushing scouts through advancement is the best way to keep them interested. Adventure, adventure, adventure. Sadly, many adults seem to believe that happiness comes through advancement. Those are the units without older scouts. Barry

I don't know, when a unit works this hard for advancement, maybe the pencil whipping question is appropriate. It's not a big deal, but I certainly would ask if I were UC just to make sure the adults understand the big picture of fun and adventure. This unit could be led by experienced adults who know how to blow past this part, or inexperienced adults who are trying to rush forward. How much experience do these adults have? Barry

I would be curious to learn how much experience the adults have. Aim and Methods are generally learned skills. Barry

A really good thought provoking post Navybone, thanks. As a mentor, I strive to get the scouts to look at the basic principles of the scouting values. In one sentence, what do the Scout Oath, Scout Law, "do a good turn daily", and so forth have in common. What is the cornerstone principle for the actions of the scouting values? My style of mentoring is guide the scout to answer his questions, because the process of self conclusions is the profound motivation to change a habit. It's one thing to be obedient because the adults says so, it's different when the scout determines it is the right thing to do. I want the scout to answer to himself why he acted the way he did. As I stated before, I'm skeptical of a 10 year old making a protest of this nature. Acting out of step of the herd exposes one to danger, which is why the behavior is not instinctive at this age. Barry

The only time our scouts are required to wear the uniform is during travel. We learned 50 to 75 teenagers running around at road stops can make people pretty nervous. The uniform connects scouts to adults. Ironically, we also found the folks at stops act a little better when surrounded by scouts in uniform. That still amazes me. Barry

From my life experiences, you are the rare exception. Barry

Cubs go where their parents take them. The 10 year old wasn’t motivated to protest on his own. The BSA has become an outlet for political expression. When the gays were using the BSA for their own purpose of expression, I talked to several cub age parents who said they weren’t joining the BSA because they wanted their family involved in something that didn’t encourage political discourse. Ironically I hear the same thoughts about watching Sunday football. Barry

I’m not sure what is confusing about this. If you don’t know how to work on cars, you take it to an expert. National isn’t in the business of doing research, so they go to experts. The question is what do the three organizations expect from the study. Something! Barry

I assure you that National is quite involved because they are the main beneficiaries of the study results. The research professionals have the credentials and expertise to design and manage the study. I expect Montclair will produce some publications from the study as well. Barry