Eagledad

Good list. I'm not sure how our scouts learned courtesy during trips. But, I know that generally abuse came from younger scouts. Problems disappeared with troop age maturity. Same goes for wearing the uniform during travel, older scouts had no trouble, it's always the 12 and 13 year olds in their self-identity years who complained. Barry

We went strait from summer camp to a day of white water rafting. Between changing clothes, getting wet, snacks, and one handicapped scout wetting his pants and not telling anyone until it became obvious, the vehicles didn't fair well for the 8 hour drive home. As I said, we learned. Not only did we start renting vans, but we also told the scouts that they would be responsible for the cost of cleaning the vehicles at a local car wash. That didn't make an impression until after the first year where they found themselves spending a lot of money and an hour of their time cleaning the vans before dropping them off to waiting parents a few blocks away. They were much more tidy the following years after developing habits of cleaning out trash at every stop and making sure all food and drinks were cleaned up by each scout. Funny how one hour of cleaning when you're dead beat and warn out from camp changes ones habits. Barry

Yes, we live and learn. One ASM traded for a new car after summer camp because he could not get the smell out.......Coincidentally, we started renting vans the next year. Barry

AND SOAP. Don't forget eco friendly soap. And by the way, a little can go a long way. Kind of funny, but our scouts used the bucket and plunger a lot because it was just so darn much fun. Wish they felt that way about showers. Barry

One of our first Eagles was a deaf scout. Good kid, but because he was born deaf, he was a bit spoiled by his parents and he learned how to "skirt" responsibilities. He had one bad habit of teasing other kids. Nothing mean, just seeking attention with negative attention. I remember he was brought to me for once such incident and all of a sudden he couldn't read my lips. When I called him on it, his eyes looked as if he'd seen a ghost. We didn't have much trouble after that. I told his dad about it and he had no response. But, I notice adults can be a bit proud about handicapped scouts as well. I called our District Eagle Chair the day before this same scout's scout EBOR. All I wanted to tell him was make sure each board member looks strait at the scouts so he can see your lips. But before I could get that far, the chair cut me off and lectured that all candidates are treaty fairly. He cut me off a couple times. So, ok. Sure enough when the scout gave a great answer that had nothing to do with the question, the members of the board froze for a moment because they realized they didn't know how to talk to him. In reality, his he EBOR was over at that point because all the members just fumbled around telling the scout the expectations of an Eagle. They didn't dare ask anymore questions. LOL. Handicapped scouts are a challenge today because there are so many types of behaviors considered handicaps. Even cerebral palsy has different stages that would require different skills. I don't know why, but our troop seemed to attract a lot of challenged scouts. We learned that success is very dependent on the parents. Oh the troop has to be open minded working with handicapped scouts in a patrol method program, but if the parents are helping, the effort is a lot less challenging. Barry

Virtuous actions become real virtue when chosen deliberately from motivation of internal good. I think Badon Powell said something similar, but I can't remember where. "Do a good turn daily" is a practice of the goal. Barry

I agree. First, most boys (girls?) of this age and maturity are more than ready for an advanced maturity program. I believe most Webelos Dens are just coasting their last couple months waiting to get in the troop anyway. Second, the few Dens that do wait a couple of months longer are typically doing it for the adults who want the boys to get more advancement. That advancement a year later will mean almost nothing to the scouts. For those Dens who are waiting, we asked that they send their Scouts to our troop just to get used to being a Scout (even if they hadn't committed to our troop). I would advise Pack leaders learn the standard crossover timetable for their district so they can help the troops. Late crossovers are a burden on PLCs just trying to place the new scouts in the right patrols, so they can ease the struggle of the change. Troop election cycles can challenge the PLCs just in recruiting and training Troop Guides. I've said before, the BSA looses more scouts in their first year of a troop than any other time. Packs can help a little by fitting into the troop schedules. Barry

I know we are referencing the more extreme part of the topic, but many of our scouts see something that looks like fun and add it. I was thinking about our scouts taking a craft MB and enjoy it so much, they add wood craft, leather craft, metal craft, even basket weaving. Because camps have the tools, crafts are fairly easy and a lot of fun. Many scouts added three badges to their original list. They aren't Eagle required badges, but they make a lot of memories and gifts for mom. Barry

I found it odd that they called it WoodBadge. I kind of felt like this is more of how to run a linked program than how to run a scouting program. Prerequisite would be running the present troop with getting the new recent changes. Barry

Well wait a minute, there is a lot of agreement around here. But there is also a lot of experience and experiences here too. I happen to believe that this is one of the best forums of like minded scouters because our opinions are expression of life's experiences, not illusions of our egos. We ran the ego guy off about a year ago. We aren't trying to change your mind (at least I'm not), we are just passing along information to consider. Or not. Someone once posted, "I cannot teach anybody anything, I can only only make them think"- Socrates. Oh wait! That was me. LOL Barry

I guess logical and reasoning suggest matching maturity to the requirements gives the best chance for maximum growth from the activities. But, our scouts who take camping at summer camp have a lot of fun and look forward to each day's activities. If they have that much fun at summer camp, imagine the fun of finishing the requirements with the troop. Barry

What do you have against partials? Barry

Our scouts, more often than not, came back with other MB credits that they signed up for while at camp. Can't scouts still ask to take classes at camp if it fits in their schedule and the class has an opening? Barry

I read Socrates quote, "I cannot teach anybody anything, I can only make them think", and thought it would be a good Scouters Motto. If a motto works like a compass to keep our vision and actions on course, what would your Scouters Motto be? Barry

Who knows, but boys in Boy Scouts for most parents is a natural result of the BSA's long long standing reputation of the Boy Scout program. I have yet to hear any parent say the same for girls joining the Boy Scouts. Girls joining is a proactive decision. The natural reaction is probably a generation or two away. We might learn the answers to a few of these kinds of questions by asking the members of the Canadian scouts who went through these changes 20 or so years ago. Barry

You're speaking from your experience and I respect that. I am adding my experience, which is to keep the discussion as small as required with intentions of getting all the information and developing actions and/or a plan for going forward. Then, if and when a larger audience is required (such as your experience), the leaders are proving information and plan, as opposed to inviting multiple opinions (generally emotion) to fill the void, which generally forces multi-directional suggestions and usually another meeting. Of course every situation is unique and requires different approaches, but as I said, the beginning should start with minimum emotion and maximum information. Where units are challenged in these things is their lack of experience of dealing with it. So, starting small and working their way out usually provides enough time and insight to seek and invite the right experience people who can point the unit in a direction. Then, if the unit feels all the families need information, the information provided is coming from thought out actions. Barry

It's in who you know I guess. My experiences with UCs has been very good. In fact, more professional than the DE, which seems to come and go every couple of years. We owe our UC for helping us out of a situation similar to this one. Barry

I you decide to hold a committee meeting, invite only those who absolutely have to be involved. The more people involved, the more complex the discussion becomes. I don't agree with not inviting anyone outside the unit. If this situation was easy, you wouldn't be asking faceless keyboard jockeys for advice. My experience is that folks in general will make a wrong decision simply because they don't want to face conflict. District and council have monitored and dealt with many of these situations. How many has your unit handled? Things may have changed or you area is different, but my experience is that district and council policy is stand back and let the unit make the decisions, so the unit is held responsible for the decisions. However, if you don't know any of the outside members enough to trust them, then go back to my first point, keep the meeting participants to an absolute minimum. Barry

Well, maybe. But, your experience doesn't reflect all UCs. We had a very good UC whose opinion was highly regarded in these situations, even by the DC and DE. Barry

We would at this point require a parent attend camp and activities. That generally forces actions one way or another. Barry

Even though we had 100 scouts, this is how we pushed the patrols. It was a challenge, I admit. The Troop QMs job was teaching the patrol QMs their responsibilities and maintaining the troop trailers. The Troop QM had the keys to the trailer, so he was required for using and loading the trailer correctly. He also verified the driver was trained for pulling the trailer. The patrols where encourage to arrange transportation to take their gear. That could include the trailer is the patrols were camping with the troop. The system is not a pure as the old days, but it was a start in the right direction. Part of the challenge is the respect (of lack of) for the Patrol QM. When I was a scout, the PQM was considered more important than the Asst PL because they were responsible for the condition of the gear and for getting it to camp outs. The PQM today is more of a position used to give a scout a title. Barry

Very good thanks. What I meant by Scouter course is experiencing Patrol Method and understanding the intention of the process so they know why to apply it. Barry

What Wood Badge skills are being practiced? This course sounds more like a Scouter course for adult troop leaders, or what should be for troop leaders. Very interesting. Barry

What is this course? I'm not familiar with it. Barry

This happens every now and then, an Eagle does a really bad thing. The only time I remember the media hanging on to it very long is when an Eagle tortured a gay man. Even then it was less about the Eagle and more about intolerance. Barry