Eagledad

I've watch and worked with enough scouts to feel there really isn't a "best" ECOH. But, my favorites are the ones done on camp outs. The sun is usually low in the sky, the birds are chirping and the smell of nature all come together making it feel perfect. Barry

More often than not, this is the most learning part of these projects. I'm not sure it's a bad thing. Barry

Ah! A delegator. He'll go far in life. Barry

You’re observing hormones, give them a few years. Barry

As I said, our camp allowed nude swimming back in the 60's and 70's. What was acceptable (not a big deal) back them was modesty. Nobody cared if you did or didn't. I grew up near a lot of secluded fishing ponds and more often than not we ended up taking off our clothes and swimming in the hot Oklahoma summer heat. Our parents knew we did this. Would parents accept that today? There was an article not to long ago on the subject of professionals (teachers, psychologist, lawyers, so forth) pushing kids further into the confusion of transgenders because they would be committing career suicide if they bucked the culture of political correctness. One of the examples used in the article was the firing of a United Kingdom Girl Scout Leader who stood up against mixing transgenders with male biological bodies with girls in camp showers. She got absolutely no support. Convoluted responses? It's down right hostile activism. And it's going to get worse. Women rights organizations are already struggling with the situation of biological male transgenders competing directing against girls in activities where males clearly have the advantage. Innocence has been exploited for political leverage to the point of completely taking it away from our children. Barry

Well this part was pretty cool!

Must be having a bad day. You don't want to be around other people in the backwoods, I get it. But for someone who hasn't seen or experienced Philmont, "don't like being herded like cattle out to pasture" is disrespectful and unscout-like. To each their own and all that. Barry

You may cross paths with another group once in a long while, but there is plenty of room to get lost. Still, Philmonts not cheap, so there has to be more, and there is. Philmont's charm on the trial are many camps and programs. Remembering a couple programs off the top of my head, there is the mining camp, fishing camp, and a old west town with reenactors. Only time I ever got to try fly fishing, they provide the gear. Many camps have an adult only area with coffee and other treats, including a break from the scouts. Phimont adds more fun and adventure to the typical backpacking trek. Very Scouting. I have special memories of a Philmont trek where my older son and I were two of the adults in my younger's sons crew. It was perfect. Barry

That's not research, that is just a few volunteer experiences and opinions. I thought you had facts and data that would educate us as to why we shouldn't blame youth service organizations. Barry

Instead? We have choice? OK, please educate us on the history, delivery methods and failure models. Barry

Mistakes fuel the fire of growth.

It feel great doesn't it? But, I'm not giving up my Eagledad name. Barry

Your missing the key part, harm. The first three acts on that list could be, and many times would be, "kids' being kids". Someone who just happen walk by a group of boys calling each other names might assume the worst when in reality it is nothing more than kids trying to outwit the others, play. So, BEFORE anyone is accused of anything, a CLARIFICATION should be determined of the situation. I can also think of two situations where scouts were taken to the emergency room for an injury cause during play. No foul intentions, just play that went too far. We were taught back in the day that bullying is best identified when the perpetrator is purposely forcing their power on an unwilling victim. The first reaction is to gain an understanding of the whole situation. Barry

Well said. I will say that there is a step below even the consensus level, what happened? Anytime a scout feels harm, there has to be concern. But, reflecting on my wonderful marriage, sometimes it's just a simple matter of communication and expectation. My kids will tell you that they heard very little yelling in our family while growing up. They found themselves very uncomfortable in situations where yelling was the form of communication. The SM should be able to learn what exactly caused the harm. THEN, determine the reactions for changing the environment to be safe. Barry

Actually it does under discipline. It is the CCs responsibility. Still, the layer of dealing with it, (meaning identifying learning exactly what is going on) and determining how the unit should proceed starts with the SM. If the scout doesn't feel the SM is working to make the environment safe, then the next step is the CC. And when it gets this far, I feel asking for help from the parents or mediator is appropriate. Barry

I was a soccer coach at the same time as a Scoutmaster, so our troop was open minded with sports, and other outside activities like band and school plays. I would say that on average, we had 60 percent of scouts at meetings and 40 percent on campouts. Just when I started worrying that we weren't as fun a troop as we working toward, we would hit a month between sports and have a 95% attendance at meeting and campouts. If the program is worth doing, youth will fit it in when they can. But, that kind of a program is a challenge and patrols have to be developed with that in mind. We made patrols of 10 or twelve with the goal of 6 or 8 attending campouts. That was pretty close. And if you wonder if that kind of program would be attractive for new scouts, we grew from 15 to 100 scouts in 7 years. That was while loosing 40% the first year scouts for the first couple of years because we were still trying to get our feet under us. We were fun, but chaotic. We not only became the fastest growing troop in the district, we had the most scouts older than 14 in the Council. What I'm trying say is if you build it, they will come. You just have to build IT. Barry

Why did you guys take on scoutmastering? In one sentence, what do you want from the experience? There are as many reasons for volunteering as there are volunteers. Camping, leadership, adventure, mentoring young people, or even proving to oneself that you can do it. There is one desire that motivates your soul more than the others. What is it? The BSA has set their Mission of Association for Preparing young people to make ethical choices over their lifetime by instilling in them the value of the Scout Oath. They even give building blocks to the mission called Aims and Methods. Goals, mission, vision; whatever you want to call it, are required to lead anything forward because the leader needs to know when they aren't following the right path. Why did you take this job? What is your goal? Does it fit with the BSA Mission? My goals when I started were developing a troop of independent thinking scouts who didn't require adults around to function normally. With that goal in mind, and along with the goal of preparing young people to make ethical choices by instilling the value of the Scout Oath as my compass, I use the patrol method toward my goals. I shaped the Patrol Method to achieve my goals. To keep going in the right direction of working toward an troop of independent thinking scouts with a lot of character, we tried different approaches to just about everything until we found the' approach that worked best toward our goals. We tried 6 (yes Six) different approached for first year scouts and many different trainings, and different PLC meeting styles until we found the ones that fit our goals best. We even switched from a Car Camping troop to a backpacking troop. It was a long humiliating process of learning by failures. I am so good at doing it wrong the first and second time. But, I look back and it was so much fun. So, when we talk about patrol method, the starting place for making the method a success is knowing where you want to go. What is your goal? How does it fit within the BSA Mission? How can Patrol Method be shaped to work for your goals? And have the courage to change when it becomes obvious your plan isn't working. Do you like your program now? Is it working toward your goal? Mission? Don't be afraid of asking for help. I encourage a lot A LOT of ideas on this forum that were proven to work for us. But, very few of those ideas are original to our troop. We tried ideas that made other programs successful, it was much easier. So, what are your goals? How can we help? Barry

The uniform is more for my application of scouting in developing character. And honestly, I've never ever seen it worn by itself in American Scouting. Which, has me a suspicious of the sudden encouragement of it by adults. Of course I'm not a globalist type person. Scouting is local. Traditionalist fits me better. My dad was a 16 year old scoutmaster during WWII. I got to proudly wear his shirts and hat during my scouting experience in the 70s. They really weren't all that different in color, but the material quality were much different. I was popular with the adults. As a Scoutmaster, the uniform was a tool for developing character, and measuring the mood of the scout. Just getting the scouts in our troop to make good decisions with the uniform is challenging enough without worrying about the uniforms of starving Scouts in Mocodusha. I have said often on this forum that Uniform and Advancement are the two most challenging and abused methods for the adult leaders. If adults learned how to apply the uniform toward the BSA's Mission and Vision, the rest of the program would be a piece of cake. Maybe, peace of cake is more appropriate. I'm also a little surprised that National would support the neckerchief uniform since much of the funds for the Professional Scouters come from the uniform profits. Barry

I'm not sure I agree with some of this, but I will say that most administrators of the patrol method would consider camaraderie an indicator of growth and success. In the four stages (forming, storming, norming and performing) of team development, performing is the stage of a highly functional team. I would say camaraderie is a requirement of that stage. Getting to the performing stage is where most adults find the challenge. As we were talking about yesterday, Ad hoc patrols works against team building, but seem to be the natural reaction to low number troops. That is just one example, but it points out the challenge of leaders understanding patrol method and the struggles of working toward norming and performing. Doing it is challenging enough when the adults do have a good grasp of patrol method. The goal seems imaginary for those who have not experienced it in youth or adult leadership. That is why I think the influence of the culture (pop culture) will push future objectives. Barry

Girls are different from boys, so I think naturally forming groups changes with the new girl membership changes. Natural human instinct is being replace by program policy, so more adult participation will be required to subtly influence some kind of positive outcome. My humble opinion is that expectations of patrol method will change to fit cultural trends. Maybe that is what's been going on since National started New Scout Patrols, but the traditional members resisted. Since traditionalist are dwindling and their influence is fading, global scouting can step up and bring changes to the program. Barry

Yes, well said. We must consider that the intention of the JTE is nothing more than a compass to keep unit programs going a correct path, or general direction. Tour Permits were basically the same thing; a checklist for developing good habits to transport their scouts safely. I'm not sure if the authors of the JTE were really wanting more than a plan "yes" we have patrols. I mean, all scoutmasters believe they are developing leaders simply by doing the 8 Methods. I think National believes all units developing leaders if they are doing some form of the 8 methods. We come to forums to educate ourselves for a higher expectations. Barry

Ironic since the neckerchief is the least worn part of the full uniform (Class A) by scouts in the U.S. At least in our area. Barry

Yes, but the JTE is asking for a "yes" or "no" of program procedures. The context of the discussion is more toward an idealist lifestyle process for learning from the personal decisions within the group experience. That isn't always easy to answer with a simple yes or no. Barry

There are as many answers as there are poorer, and richer, parts of the world. Managing resources is part of maturing growth. Or I mean to say managing the challenges of resources is part of the growth of experience. The bar should always be set high so challenge and growth continue. Barry

Hmm, good question. Embarrassing? Barry