Eagledad

We started working with a PLC meeting one hour before the Troop meeting for a few reasons. First, even companies would struggle updating action items every four weeks. One small meeting each week is a lot easier for young adults than one long meeting once a month. Action items are just easier to process and report every week. Second, the scouts practice the discipline of doing the the process of meetings efficiently. The SPL gets very good at making agendas and getting through meetings efficiently. The PLs learn the process simply by attending. I found myself bored to death with Troop Committee meetings because the members drove what should take 15 minutes to two hours. And finally, I found by accident that they PLC bonds faster and functions better as a team when they meet each week. The PLC only took 3 months to trim that 1 hour meeting into 30 minutes, and really only needed 20 minutes. The scouts much preferred those additional 30 minutes once a week to the 3 hours once a month. One other thing that came from those early meetings is turning the 30 minutes before meeting as a time for scouts to meeting advisers, teachers and testers for advancement and skills learning. Edited to add: The adults (SM) also preferred the 30 minutes a week to the 3 long hours of once a month. Barry

Yep! 🙄 Reminds me of our flight to Europe last year. Note to Travel Agent (Miss Barry), no seats near the bathrooms/kitchen(alcohol) area. Barry

They should be asked to come up with their own personal list. We ask our scouts to create the list during their classes as the idea pops in their head. So, your scouts might need some time to reflect on their course. I have only talked to my scouts individually because we only sent one scout at a time. You could do that or work with them as a team helping each other. I would be curious to learn how that worked. Barry

My experience working with adults who didn’t have any BSA experience is that they struggle with the process of character growth. BSA program character growth requires patience, faith and trust. Barry

The contrast between the two programs was enough for my wife to quit. She is a type A person and doesn’t switch focus for minor inconveniences. I can only recall one BSA troop where scouts were led by the adults to all their events. Those things stand out at camps, at least before the last 10 years. It was a brand new troop of 40 scouts with only women leaders. Barry

Ah, maybe not summer camp (20 years ago), but some kind of overnight camping for the council area. Barry

Since my only daughter is the youngest, my wife was trained the Boy Scout way. So her reaction to all the GS leaders leading their troop of girls at GS Summer Camp like a mother hen leading chicks was opposite. She couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t trust their girls to wander around camp without an adult escort. She and my daughter quit not to long after. Barry

Being married to a CPA, our family knows exactly what you are saying. But what is the SWMBO organization she belongs to? Barry

Well, hmm. I find my moral soul being cornered. I was actually thinking more the appearance of naivety of Americans. It seems I forgot my parachute. Yes, I understand. But, It could have been Budweiser. Barry

Hmm, sounds like something Philmont might consider for their camps. Barry

Kind of funny; AIDS prevention is a 90s thing. World wide today, sex is part of the experience of travel. It was so prevalent at the last few Olympics that they ran out of the "AIDS prevention devices". I'm not sure some young people even understand the significance of AIDS. Ironically, a friend (mentor) with 40 years scouting experience quit scouting when their troop started a Venturing crew. He was so tired of dealing with scouts going to each others tents in the middle of the night that he had had enough. So, what is the point of a beer tent. Is that something normal in European scouting? Barry

Great post MattR. You were getting back to the challenges I originally commented on. This type of program requires heavier adult involvement and that is hard for boy run purist who don't understand how to develop growth from independent decisions. But, when the responsibility of planning and process is given to the patrols, more mentoring and resources are required because each patrol functions at a different level of maturity. And, even the best functioning patrols required adult resources for activities that need adult experience and skills. The challenge for the SM is finding the right adults who give only what the patrols require to function independently and nothing more. I've often said that 50% of scoutmastering is working with the adults. But, it may have been even more. I like MattRs approach to the Patrol Method program. Sounds like the scouts liked it too. I also understand the frustration handing over the reins to someone with a difference vision. The SM who followed me didn't understand of how the older scouts fit in the whole program. He lost 70% of the older scouts in two years. Teaching the intricacies of the big picture is hard. Barry

A scouter, right? Not a bear. Barry

Then speak on letting the scouts make the decisions of the tools they have and the tools they develop. But don't say "no tools". Some tools are very good. I found in the NYLT that 80% of troops did not use a pre-meeting agenda for their PLC meetings. Have you ever watched an SPL run a meeting without an agenda. Worse, have you ever watched an SPL run a meeting without an agenda and the SM standing behind him? How can the SPL learn to run a meeting if he has to turn to the SM every time he needs move to go to the next item? Even the SPL Handbook encourages meeting agendas. The participants of our JLTC (NYLT then) left the course with eight meeting agendas they personally developed during the course. The patrol is real life at a boys size. Real life uses appropriate check list. I'm a pilot, I don't even start the engine of the plane until after using a checklist. Success depends on it. After experiencing the processes, scouts learn what they need and don't need. The trick isn't making them use checklist, the trick is getting them to make decisions on how to use checklists. That is the goal because that is when they are showing growth. Barry

Yes, but all checklist was implied. The scouts will determine what they need, but processes and procedures are to prevent setting scouts up to fail. They have to start somewhere because with nothing is asking them to read our minds. You are making yourself afraid by looking at the extreme. Remember Stosh a few years ago. He preached giving scout total freedom and independence, then he lectured the list on how to direct scouts to success. He tried to SM 3 troops and failed because he didn't understand how much fertle ground is required to start and maintain growth. He watch them fail, then took over. He would then hand it off to them again without tools to watch them fail again, and then takeover again. You can't send scouts into the woods with nothing and expect them to succeed and have fun. The fun wears off when the sun goes down and they are sitting in the middle of the big dark nowhere. As I said, we guide the PLs to show new scouts how to find the latrine at night, and even set a lite in it so they can find their way, until they build the confidence to find it in the dark. Otherwise the Patrol QM finds himself cleaning urine off the tents. Barry

Personally I'm lost here. "Stuff" is from planning. "Prepare for events, Work on advancement, Set the Agenda, and Play a game" is a fixed structure AND a Process. Artificial? The Troop has given the patrols the structure and expectations from some planning SOMEWHERE. So, I am missing something. Semantics maybe? I guess since I came from a similar program, it's a little clearer to me. But, I'm reminded that in Badon Powell's scouts, the SM was more hands on in building a structure (or lack of it if that is what you want to call it) and set an agenda. The Patrol Leader (selected permanently by the SM) builds the patrol experience from the Structure and Planning (expectations) from the SM. As the PLs mature and grow, they will get more involved with the SM in the planning and structure. But, there is certainly planning and structure. As for checklist, I grow tired of leaders today downplaying checklist. Why? If a scout has the ability to complete a process without a checklist, fine. But most of us aren't that good. The patrol is the real world scaled down to a boy's (youths) size. The real world relies on checklist. Add to that that boys like structure. You see that every time a new group of crossovers move in. Boys hate chaos. Checklist is a simple tool that helps working toward goals. If the scouts don't need a checklist, fine. But don't deny them a tool because they are boys. Adult deserve the tools of real life. The scouts will decide if they need them of not. Barry

Hmm, isn't their uniforms and activity shirts the same tie dye t-shirt? Barry

The GSUSA has a reputation of following the guidance of political activism and the BSA has a reputation of self-serving policy development with touch of my way of the highway follow thru. On the up side, I could see this an entertaining drama on Netflix. Barry

I can see the Leadership Corp coming back because this program requires mature scouts working the top level of program. They will have a closer working relationship with the adults as they grow with the experience. These are the kind of programs that keep the older scout because the program structure has continued maturity challenges that attract young adults looking for experiences to develop themselves. I like it. Barry

That's pretty good (impressive actually), but that puts a lot of responsibility on program planning at the troop level. Which might be fine, but because the Patrol Leaders won't be dragged along by the program at weekly Troop meetings, the program agendas will have to be more detailed and specific so they can follow the expectations. I don't think this is a bad thing, my troop was sort of this way when I was a scout. But, I remember that our PLs were very very mature (they all had drivers licenses), and we had good adult resources. Eight to ten scouts require more room that many homes can handle. It is important to remember that the Patrol Meeting must be fun enough for the scouts to want to attend every week because skipping a patrol meeting is easier than a troop meeting. Barry

OK, so what are the patrol agendas the other 3 weeks? I'm not criticizing, just wondering. The objective is the give the Patrols as much autonomy as their maturity can handle (and maybe a slight bit more). But from my experience of our patrols scheduling two patrol campouts a year, the challenge is actually coming up with a theme for the activities. I could see a young patrol struggling to have a reason for wanting to attend a weekly meeting. The BSA isn't going to be a help here, and paradigm shifts can end badly without a structure to develop habits. Barry

The drive to Eagle caused this trend. I encourage scouts to hold off on PL as long as possible. Youth don’t really get much from the until they are at least 13. Really 14. I also encouraged them to experience the position at least twice before moving on to other ambitions. Maybe not from each other,but they can from the adults. Our usually grabbed some distance or across the road from the patrols. It makes a difference. Barry

Ask each scout 3 things they learned at the course that they would like to try in the troop. Then sit down with them and develop a plan for working the ideas and goals. That way your are working as a team to improve the program with ideas and skills learned from the course. We asked the SMs to spend an hour with their scout before the graduation ceremony. Barry

I haven't heard they were going away and I'm kind of sad, a lot of Cub volunteers were very proud of them. I admit though, I have a box full of dusty knots that I don't have any clue what they represent. Since I'm your basic procrastinator, I haven't sewed them on yet. Maybe in a few years when my grand kids join. Maybe. Barry

Oh! That's what that taste is called. Barry