Eagledad

I'm not sure where you can fit in this situation if you are leaving. You could call a meeting to work toward a solution. You are dealing with a person that can only be controlled by someone she respects and doesn't want to disappoint. Otherwise she will drive everyone crazy, which can lead to all kinds of bad things. Is there someone who has personal skills that will get her attention without disrespecting her? That person can be delegated to direct all the committee members and require all emails go through that person for distribution. At the very least, find someone willing to be the single point of information distribution. Barry

Well, the struggle of bureaucracy can sometimes drive councils to seek a path of least resistance. But, as you seem to already understand, units should resist letting council lead their program astray. There are two separate expectations that should be considered; one is that the scouts grow from the experience. I happen to believe this practice is a good growth experience. The other is accurate back records at the scout office. I believe council records are important for long term well beyond the scouts youth experience. I was unit leader before computers and every one of our Eagle scout candidates found several errors on their council records. I'm not exaggerating, everyone one of them. After digital record keeping was brought in to the system, almost ZERO errors where found. So, develop the unit process where the scouts are responsible for maintaining their records, while the unit maintains backup records (ie. digital). I do have one experience about this process. We had a scout transfer into our troop from a troop in another state. He was a very fine 16 year old young man who only needed 3 MBs to get Eagle. Where he stumbled was filling out his Eagle paperwork and collecting all the packet information. Our troop puts that responsibility on the scout, but his previous troop didn't even let the scouts hold any of their cards because they didn't trust the scouts. Once we all understood the situation, we helped him where ever he asked and all went well. It's a good skill to practice. Barry

She is a Type "A" personality micro manager that has a lot of maturing to do. What you need is a CC that will filter her communications and direct her energy. She can't help herself, but you do have a great resource there with the right director. As chairman of committees, I recruited these people because they are very productive. Barry

OK, I have no scout-like response except that my experience was different.😃 Barry

How so? Barry

Ah, another "adult" with an opinion. I know that scouts develop somewhat the behaviors and habits of their adult mentors, but less is more in the power of developing growth. As a trainer, I explained that Scoutmasters only need to set the example of following the guidelines of their handbooks and quietly watch how scouts to choose to follow the guidelines of their handbooks. One of the struggles I had with the veterans (One Air Force General) was the perception that the uniform instilled pride. A boy would feel pride of being a scout simply by wearing the uniform. I explained that while their pride may start out that way for new scouts, their experience would eventually drive how a scout wanted to express himself with the uniform. That is why a patrol of scouts with freewill don't typically dress quite the same. Each are at their own place of experience and confidence in life. I also think that is really what these veterans were feeling without realizing it. But, scouts first need a program of experiences to develop an opinion, then they can express their pride. For youth, uniform starts as an expression of oneself and has grows toward an expression their experience. That is why a scout choosing to wear something they have no pride for can be so challenging. That is why adult opinions can corrupt the process of a scouts growth. Barry

So what is the discussion about; scouts and scouters not doing the process correctly, or streamlining the process so scouts and scouters don't have to perform the process correctly. The Advancement guide directs the scout to ask the SM for a list of counselors, and acquire a MB Card (we use white cards) to be filled out for approval by the SM. How does a scouts perform that process without first acquiring the card. Isn't following the process an important life skill? I know by experience that actions of following the processes in the troop are good practices of life skills. Now, I admit summer camps interrupt the process and challenges the practice of the life skill, but shouldn't we try? If Blue Cards aren't getting filled out correctly, somebody is doing it wrong. Barry

Hmm, that makes a lot of sense. Also, I find that adults who don't really understand how patrol method works like to go to structure because they can more easily judge their success and failure. Good post. Barry

The discussion is typically a battle of passions for the uniform, not practical applications of the uniform. I agree the BSA is identified by the uniform because through all of it's changes, the uniform is still a reflection of tradition. I wore my dad's scout shirt and hat during my scouting experience. That means more now than it did then, but it means a lot to have that identity as brothers. More importantly, there is a purpose for uniformity in the program. Uniform actions with the patrol are practice of selfless individual actions. Uniformity directs a state of mind for considering the good of others first. Uniformity subtly sets fertile ground for living the Scout Law. The uniform is an equalizer that gives each scout equal stature for self- identity with the patrol. In uniform, the rich scout has no more stature than the poorer scout standing next to them. The stature of rank and responsibility identifies the maturity and experience of the individual. Uniform can be and indicator of personal life experience. I accidentally found that the uniform (or dress) often identifies that state of mind of the scout as well. More often than not when I asked a scout, who wasn't in his typical habit of wearing the uniform, how he was doing, I found he was dealing with a difficult struggle in his life. I admit I get as frustrated with the hypocritical anti-uniform police as I do by the so-called uniform police because both are selfishly ignoring the practical growth advantages of uniformity in the patrol and the state of mind of each scout. Scouting is a wonderful program when the adults removed the barriers that corral a scout from finding his hidden virtues, as well as exposing bad habits. I've said many times that the two methods that challenge adults the most are "Advancement" and "Uniform". The adults, more often than not, are doing both wrong. Barry

I was wondering the same thing, but then maybe turning anyone away is not in their nature anymore.

Just because someone is anti-uniform doesn't mean they aren't a form of uniform police. I respect your opinion once , but over and over and over? There comes a point when the scouting response is just agree to disagree. Barry

I had the same thoughts as Walk in the woods except moral judgement in my experience is usually pretty clear to most involved, or was. My fear in something like this is motivation less from moral judgement, but more from a politically or religiously bigoted judgement. We had to deal with a couple of abuse situations in our units and the decisions we made for those adults seemed pretty clear. Scouting is too hard today, why do people bother? Barry

Archery tag? That sounds like a game everyone, except the winner, only plays once. Barry

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE ! Barry

This is going to be a growing experience for you. One to recognize when you are going too far. And two, doing something about it. We all go through it, some of us better than others. Barry

Apples and oranges. I don't know if OSHA was created for low population growth in the US, but experts have been expressing for a long time that the birth rate in North America is too low and will have to be balanced. What does that mean exactly, I don't know. But the low birth rate has been a topic for a few years. Now, that discussion isn't the same as the over population fear that is seeping into politics. That is a different thing. Activism, you've got to love it. Or hate it. Barry

Like Venturing, OA is another scouting program outside of the troop program. SteveMM’s SM is looking at it as a troop program, which adds pressure on the scouts. Pressure and boredom drive scouts away. Barry

We offer it once a year to any 1st class scout who wants it. We add other lessons during the training, like how to sign off advancement and communicating skills. Our version of ILST is pre-required for being a patrol leader. Barry

I can see why this is frustrating for the more experienced members here. Do training because,,, well why? As a scoutmaster, I set goals and specifics for the unit volunteers we sent to training, so that they could see where they fit in the bigger picture of our program. As a WB Staffer, I asked all participants to talk with their unit leader to learn the unit goals for them. This is not only important because a volunteer shouldn't feel they are wasting time when they could be at home with their family, but also understanding the goals them helps them focus on how to use the information they are learning. Especially with developing the Ticket Items. I believe the unit leader should have Ticket Items in mind for the participant, so that they practice the expectations of the unit leaders. All this to say that I would ask your chairman what he/she wants, or at least hopes you gets from WB. A lot of units unintentionally abuse training by turning it into a requirement to inter the group, club, team, or whatever. It's one thing to spend 1 day for some specific training, WB requires much more time and is less specific. When you look at the basis of what WB is trying to do for units, it's basically teaching how to set goals and build teams to reach those goals. If the main unit leaders understand those objectives, not all volunteer needs WB for a successful performing unit. If your chairman is doing their job, they are teaching you the lessons of WB by developing you into the team. I'm with Qwazse, they should give some basic unit training then let you sit back and watch. Barry

Yes, that is probably more our motivation than footprint impact also. by the end of they, the ounces hurt more than the pounds. Barry

No, we are a backpacking troop. Some scouts go all out in the minimal backpacking experience and purchase their own tent. Ironically they don't always take them on Crew backwoods treks and instead tent with other scouts to reduce campsite foot print impact. Barry

Like everything else, doing something right and having a great experience is all about training. Whether the scout learns how to use the tree saw (causes most injuries) properly or the hammock, training dictates proper use. I'm not a fan of sleeping in hammocks. I have a backpacking hammock I take on every trip, but it is more for relaxing. I found that I can't sleep in taco position. But, that is just me. I want scouts to experience as much as they can in their scouting experience, so I would encourage scouts to learn about hammocks and how to properly use them. Then see how it goes. I wouldn't expect a whole patrol to use them because we allow single man tents and only 3 or 4 scouts in the whole troop use them. But, if more scouts than trees want to experience hammocks, then we scouters get to watch their character skills.😎 Barry

Alone or with other scouts? I could see the no talking part as the challenge. Barry

When all council records were updated, handled and stored on paper, we averaged 5 errors verifying our Eagle candidates records before Council went digital around 1998. After, we averaged zero errors. And that was with a terrible software program. Barry

Our COR approached us with a complaint that our scouts were damaging the ceiling in the meeting room. Turns out after further investigation that the damage was caused by the Girls Scouts's flag pole tips during flag ceremonies. I'm not sure if there is a standard pole height, but you might check the ceiling height in your meeting room. As for flag size, it should be at least the size of the troop flag. Barry