Eagledad

There is no requirement to observe a "debate" and I feel safe assuming that a video of a public meeting wasn't what the MB developers were thinking. I would have been disappointed as well. In my opinion, observing a City Council meeting is one of the few highlights of the Citizenship in the Community requirements. The summer camp guide should advise that scouts would have to complete that requirement on their own time. Barry

It's our personal nature I guess. I'm by nature a minimalist; in place of a wallet, my cell phone case has slots where I carry my drivers license and one credit card. If I loose anyone one of those three items, I loose all three. My son pulled out his wallet the other day and it was as thick as a baseball. I have no idea what he carries in it, but I'm sure he is more prepared than me. Barry

Our troop loves this stuff. The older scouts set the example, but most of our scouts grow to learn. Even the shy scouts want to get involved. The Troop once got a standing ovation at summer camp for their skit. Our color guards strive to never do a simple flag ceremony. As I said, fun should be the first objective. Then, ................ Barry

I admit I was trying to understand what the Communication MB has to do with planning and leading any group gathering like COH and Campfires. Of course we like to help scouts working on those requirements by giving them some priority, if they ask. But advancement requirements is not the point for planning and leading group assemblies. And, while developing scout growth and confidence is the higher priority, I would say "fun" is the motivation and objective. I've watch to many troops drop campfires from their schedules because the scouts learned to dread them. If it's not fun, the scouts will kill it. Advancement is not always a good motivator for quality. I'm reminded of one of the causes that nearly killed our District Camporees was district giving scouters looking to complete a Woodbadge Ticket Item the priority to plan and run the event, even though they never proved they could plan and run their family lunch, much less a weekend of competitions for 20 troops. Barry

So, to answer rickmay's question, yes there is some guidance, but not much in the way of who can plan and run it. We still don't know why the SM chose to do it all, but if the scouts really want to plan and run it, they need to talk with him about it. Show the SM their plan to give him the confidence that they can run it. Barry

Did I miss something? Of course letting the scout run the COH is the obvious solution, so, why didn't he do that in the first place? I believe the SM Handbook talks about how to run the COH, but I haven't seen one in a while. I don't remember the COH being in the SPL Handbook. Barry

Cool! Barry

Three out of five Venturing Crews fail in four years. That number is significant because that is about the length of time the supervisors want to hang around. Also, crews that don't have a specific theme like Law enforcement, Aviation, sailing, scuba, and so forth typically fail quicker because the scouts loose interest in finding activities that hold the interest for the whole crew. Specific theme crews do better because the sponsors tend to have a special invested interest and the only scouts who join tend to have the passion for that theme. Of course any crew can be successful if enough scouts have the drive, but usually the sponsors and advisers are the key. Barry

Pinewood derbies, a few other things like soap carvings and crafts, and a computer display of pictures with scouts having fun. It worked for us. The display gets the kids attention and pull the parents over to the booth. We would ask for the parents and scouts names, kids age and phone number. We would recruit the next weekend by calling them. We build the dens and set a first time den meeting where we explained the program in full detail and filled out membership forms. Success is dictated by the adults marketing abilities. Most parents don't leave the house with an agenda to fill out a BSA membership form and write a check. On the other hand, they aren't against the idea, they just need someone to hold their hand while guiding them through the process. So, have a process in mind to get, at the very least, their names and numbers. This is a busy confusing time for parents, so help them out with something simple. Barry

Twenty years ago, or so, this forum was in the middle of membership inclusion discussions (debates). Part of the discussion for both sides was rumors of big donors backing away from the BSA. Selling camps for survival was just a matter of time. Barry

Does the SM have any scouting experience? Barry

We aren't talking about the same thing. I'm talking about ignoring National policies that set units into bad habits. When I was on the District committee, 75% of the troops in the district only used MB colleges and summer camps for advancement. That has nothing to do with the quality of counselors. That came directly from our MB College. Barry

I think the list is pretty good. We have a couple of local lake areas that are very popular for biking, running and walking. I often ride these areas and the one additional advice I would give for being prepare is a good understanding of CPR and a first-aid kit for severe cuts and broken bones. Sadly, I have seen several people requiring ambulance trips to the hospital on these urban paths, mostly as a result of bicycle collisions. Ironically, I have witness the need for a good first-aid knowledge on urban pedestrian areas far more often than wilderness treks. One fallen bicycle rider was fatal. As an avid bicyclist, dogs on leashes and toddlers often cross the paths suddenly without looking.The one advantage of urban areas is that there is usually someone trained in first-aid nearby. That could the boy scout. Barry

Yep, and what makes mb colleges and camps even worse is that they set examples of bad habits. I noticed that scoutmasters in our council only signed blue cards after the scout completes work. The Advancement guide clearly says the signature is required before the scout starts work on the requirements. So, I polled the SMs in our district and found that not a single SM knew the guidelines. The were just doing what they learned from the colleges and camps. So, what other bad habits do outside unit sponsored activities teaching units? Barry

Fair enough, but even the local soccer team understands the importance of team uniformity for success on the soccer field. I know it is my style of mentoring with scouts, but not only can I not pick a method more or less important than Uniform, I think the method is the foundation for a successful Patrol Method. Successful well run Patrols typically appear uniform in their actions, attitudes and appearance. As for the passionate complaints about all the patches and do-dads that scouts can choose to add on their uniform, I'm a minimalist that chooses very few patches. Oh I have a box full of that stuff somewhere, but not on the uniform. Barry

Yep. Scouts being honest with themselves is the goal. The hard part for adults is as qwazse said, "Encourage them to grade themselves honestly, and see how they develop over time. Each adult has their own style of encouraging, but the objective is for the scout, not the adult, to make conscious effort to develop habits of good decisions. I found the uniform is a very powerful method for developing good habits of character, if the adults could just get past their own hangups. By the way, doesn't the handbook still give instructions for wearing the uniform? Barry

I'm not sure where you can fit in this situation if you are leaving. You could call a meeting to work toward a solution. You are dealing with a person that can only be controlled by someone she respects and doesn't want to disappoint. Otherwise she will drive everyone crazy, which can lead to all kinds of bad things. Is there someone who has personal skills that will get her attention without disrespecting her? That person can be delegated to direct all the committee members and require all emails go through that person for distribution. At the very least, find someone willing to be the single point of information distribution. Barry

Well, the struggle of bureaucracy can sometimes drive councils to seek a path of least resistance. But, as you seem to already understand, units should resist letting council lead their program astray. There are two separate expectations that should be considered; one is that the scouts grow from the experience. I happen to believe this practice is a good growth experience. The other is accurate back records at the scout office. I believe council records are important for long term well beyond the scouts youth experience. I was unit leader before computers and every one of our Eagle scout candidates found several errors on their council records. I'm not exaggerating, everyone one of them. After digital record keeping was brought in to the system, almost ZERO errors where found. So, develop the unit process where the scouts are responsible for maintaining their records, while the unit maintains backup records (ie. digital). I do have one experience about this process. We had a scout transfer into our troop from a troop in another state. He was a very fine 16 year old young man who only needed 3 MBs to get Eagle. Where he stumbled was filling out his Eagle paperwork and collecting all the packet information. Our troop puts that responsibility on the scout, but his previous troop didn't even let the scouts hold any of their cards because they didn't trust the scouts. Once we all understood the situation, we helped him where ever he asked and all went well. It's a good skill to practice. Barry

She is a Type "A" personality micro manager that has a lot of maturing to do. What you need is a CC that will filter her communications and direct her energy. She can't help herself, but you do have a great resource there with the right director. As chairman of committees, I recruited these people because they are very productive. Barry

OK, I have no scout-like response except that my experience was different.😃 Barry

How so? Barry

Ah, another "adult" with an opinion. I know that scouts develop somewhat the behaviors and habits of their adult mentors, but less is more in the power of developing growth. As a trainer, I explained that Scoutmasters only need to set the example of following the guidelines of their handbooks and quietly watch how scouts to choose to follow the guidelines of their handbooks. One of the struggles I had with the veterans (One Air Force General) was the perception that the uniform instilled pride. A boy would feel pride of being a scout simply by wearing the uniform. I explained that while their pride may start out that way for new scouts, their experience would eventually drive how a scout wanted to express himself with the uniform. That is why a patrol of scouts with freewill don't typically dress quite the same. Each are at their own place of experience and confidence in life. I also think that is really what these veterans were feeling without realizing it. But, scouts first need a program of experiences to develop an opinion, then they can express their pride. For youth, uniform starts as an expression of oneself and has grows toward an expression their experience. That is why a scout choosing to wear something they have no pride for can be so challenging. That is why adult opinions can corrupt the process of a scouts growth. Barry

So what is the discussion about; scouts and scouters not doing the process correctly, or streamlining the process so scouts and scouters don't have to perform the process correctly. The Advancement guide directs the scout to ask the SM for a list of counselors, and acquire a MB Card (we use white cards) to be filled out for approval by the SM. How does a scouts perform that process without first acquiring the card. Isn't following the process an important life skill? I know by experience that actions of following the processes in the troop are good practices of life skills. Now, I admit summer camps interrupt the process and challenges the practice of the life skill, but shouldn't we try? If Blue Cards aren't getting filled out correctly, somebody is doing it wrong. Barry

Hmm, that makes a lot of sense. Also, I find that adults who don't really understand how patrol method works like to go to structure because they can more easily judge their success and failure. Good post. Barry

The discussion is typically a battle of passions for the uniform, not practical applications of the uniform. I agree the BSA is identified by the uniform because through all of it's changes, the uniform is still a reflection of tradition. I wore my dad's scout shirt and hat during my scouting experience. That means more now than it did then, but it means a lot to have that identity as brothers. More importantly, there is a purpose for uniformity in the program. Uniform actions with the patrol are practice of selfless individual actions. Uniformity directs a state of mind for considering the good of others first. Uniformity subtly sets fertile ground for living the Scout Law. The uniform is an equalizer that gives each scout equal stature for self- identity with the patrol. In uniform, the rich scout has no more stature than the poorer scout standing next to them. The stature of rank and responsibility identifies the maturity and experience of the individual. Uniform can be and indicator of personal life experience. I accidentally found that the uniform (or dress) often identifies that state of mind of the scout as well. More often than not when I asked a scout, who wasn't in his typical habit of wearing the uniform, how he was doing, I found he was dealing with a difficult struggle in his life. I admit I get as frustrated with the hypocritical anti-uniform police as I do by the so-called uniform police because both are selfishly ignoring the practical growth advantages of uniformity in the patrol and the state of mind of each scout. Scouting is a wonderful program when the adults removed the barriers that corral a scout from finding his hidden virtues, as well as exposing bad habits. I've said many times that the two methods that challenge adults the most are "Advancement" and "Uniform". The adults, more often than not, are doing both wrong. Barry