Eagledad

I have 40 years of working with youth, some training, and a couple of mentors who are professors in child psychology and life in general as a father and husband. I've experienced enough to know. Well that's a nice generality. I don't even know how to respond to such a generalization, but it is a bit condescending honestly. Just what do each gender offer that the other will learn that isn't in the Scout Oath or Law? Before you go on with your observations, the actions and reactions of youth are generally instinctive. Someone said boys like to hang around boys. Well yes, and if you watch girls, they aren't running around trying to find private space. Until puberty, hanging groups is a primitive natural defensive response of safety from predators. While that response isn't required in the modern day, it is still there, and understanding it helps in how to work with the scouts. Mean girls? More generalization of not understanding human instinct. As girls get closer to puberty, they become INSTINCTIVELY more competitive and aggressive in a passive-aggressive sort of way. I had many discussions with my daughter at this age. I can assure you that I have vast experience in that whole statement and can say, your conclusion is not normal reality. And, you certainly can't use victims, or observers, of sexual assaults and abuse to generalize what a person before or after puberty will gain from the experience in the normal world. Even divorce changes how a youth approaches their perspective of relationships. You can't pick extreme examples of humanism experiences to build ONE program for 50 to 100 youth. Let's stick to scouting to put some boundaries on our opinions. Wow, hmm. Shesh. Gender separation doesn't create integrity or character. Practicing the values of integrity and character develops integrity and character. I can't find anything in the Oath and Law that has anything to do with gender. OK, I even looked up intrinsic human values and still didn't quite understand the question in reference to this discussion. But, I'm wondering if you view this discussion as males vs females. I know my part hasn't approached it that way. But, If males are different than females physically, is it so far out there to believe they instinctively and intellectually are different as well? Barry

Yes. Each gender grows and matures differently and mixing the genders dilutes the strengths of the program for developing character and integrity. Barry

Boys and girls are different. That includes developing behavior maturity, or character in the specific case of scouting. Girls and boys have different instinctive behaviors that add to developing maturity in moral and ethical decision-making. So, mixing genders can, and does, interfere with the best potential of developing mature decision makers of integrity. For the best development of character and integrity, some folks would rather use the environment of single gender units, at least up to puberty. Barry

Just curious, is there room in your program for units that want to be single-gender? Is it optional? Barry

Here is a timely article. Seem a few Native Americans like their heritage. https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/pro-native-american-activists-fight-save-indigenous-traditions-nationwide-war-wokeness Barry

Sadly, true. It's political in it's nature. So it's emotional. Not logical. Barry

The Tiger age Daisies scouts in the GSA are a separate program from the older Brownies. That makes managing the groups much easier with age appropriate activities and materials. The BSA doesn't have to quit recruiting First Graders, just develop a separate program. The could even add pre-school age youth. Trying to plan a Pack Meeting that is fun for both toddlers and near preteen scouts is very challenging. Barry

I here what you are saying, I also always had balanced growth of both youth and adult membership. My nature is problem solving areas where performance is lacking. Whether in my job, home, even scouts, I like to evaluate and search to improve performance. And I have done a lot, A LOT, performance evaluation over the years of why the BSA is loosing membership. And it comes down to National changing policies for the purpose of increasing membership. The changes made in the 70's basically shifted adventure part of the program to more focus on advancement. When you look at the policy changes the since the 70s, many are small, but clear shifts from adventure toward advancement, with the bigger purpose of increasing leadership. I can go on and on of how changes perpetuated membership decline. But, I will mention just one for now what I believe is near the top of the changes that pushed the membership decline; adding Tigers to the Cub program. This is a complex issue, but in short, Tigers forced adult burnout in the program it made the program so long. A few numbers that I gathered 25 years ago was that less than 25% of families who joined the BSA as Tigers joined a Troop five years later. The most devastating statistic is that 50% of Webelos crossed over to the Troop. That is a huge number. And when I researched why families dropped out after Webelos, the basic answer was the program was boring. A little more research and I found that most Webelos leaders were burned out and didn't provide a fun program. The troop program is completely different and would most likely boost scouts toward fun again, but once a family wants out, it's hard to change their minds. If I were put in charge of National, I would change many parts of the program, mostly back to the what made the program successful, but I would start by making the Cub program a 4 year program, maybe even 3.5 years, to starve out adult burnout. Barry

Yep, we grew from 15 scouts to 100 in five years and I'm convinced it was because of our adventure program. Barry

My experience is older scouts are stubborn about change. Much easier to kind of let them keep their old habits while starting change with the new scouts. It takes a little creativity, but can be done. Barry

When women were brought in as Troop leaders, I remember the sudden fear of axes in wood tool’s training. Many commented that saws would be their troops go to tool. I reminded them that the saw caused more trips to the emergency room than any other wood tool in scouting. One of the things I loved about scouting was the teaching of using tools properly and safely. I remember well how to use the hammer and saw properly at my first Cub Scout Den meeting at the age of six. From the simple poncho to mighty axe, a few simple instructions and some practice turns 12 year old middle schoolers into experts. And I passed along many of those skills onto my scouts. As I explained to timid troop leaders in woods tools training, fear is contagious and is extinguished with training. Then I trained them to use both the axe and saw safely. Barry

Yep. If parents are waiting for more safety policies, I can't imagine what they would be other than reporting the incidents at higher levels so they don't get covered up. We had a lot of discussions here about safety improvements and nothing significant was brought up, mostly because BSA policies are pretty good. Funny, you don't hear parents being worried about schools when sexual abuse is report every week in the news. I will say I have observed parents of units hesitating to act on issues of adults making bad decisions. Not just abuses, but issues where adults need correction. I think it's because they don' t want to get involved being a bad guy. I have watched these things ignored mainly because nobody will act. It is concerning and I spoke about it often adults in training. Leaders need to stand up and protect scouts from adults making bad discissions. Barry

This is a really good suggestion. When I think back of the several troubled scouts we experienced, the parents were the key to our decisions, successes and failures. Some parents are the cause of the problem and cause further unforeseen complications (drama). Some parents are all-in for helping provide a positive environment to give their son positives role models and experiences of good behavior. It is remarkable to witness the change. A few become great adults. I taught in adult leadership that scouters HAVE to see themselves only as part of the parents team to develop their kids into adults. You are just a team member, Nothing more. Being a Scoutmaster does not raise your influence higher than the teacher, Sunday school teacher, coach or even the parents themselves. So, if the parents don't want to respect the situation as it is, then you can expect no support, and likely a lot of hassle. Start with talking to the parents. Barry

Folks always seem to revert to extremes when discussing the uniform. The uniform is part of scouting, so don’t make less than that. The uniform gives the youth identity and a tool for developing character. The community responds to the uniform with fondness, respect and support. The uniform is part of the romantic adventure to the image of scouting. Make the most of it and have fun. Barry

Piers and role models set the expectations. In cubs, our den leaders wore the uniform and encouraged unity. In the troop, the PLC set the expectation. of course it will never be perfect, but the uniform is part of the fun of scouting. Have fun. Barry

My high school teacher son said his experience of low quality schools to high quality schools come down to expectation from the faculty. My experience as a scout leader from cubs to council was the same. Scouts will make an effort if they are appreciated for it. You are not giving the scouts the opportunity to shine. Even a scout shirt and football pants shows willingness to show their pride of being a scout. Barry

Our town use to include the scouts in emergency prep drills, but then liability became an issue for a real emergency. Tornadoes are common around here. Leaving youth out of the process is safer and less risky for the community. Barry On a personal note, Albuquerque is home to me. I lived near the Sandia mountains as a youth.

But not to ready. The largest group of first year scouts that quit our troop in 6 months had experience camping every month during webelos. They were simply bored. Part of the adventure of being in a troop is learning scout skills from other scouts. A few scouts skills to get them wanting more is ok, but cubs with first class experience tend to leave because the troop program doesn’t live up to the hype. I used to teach webelos leaders that we would rather have scouts with no outdoors experience who are confident standing in front of groups and mingling with older scouts than trained campers. Our scouts can teach anyone to camp, but the shy scout or camping expert are much harder to mix in the program because they tend to want adult guidance to make them comfortable. Barry

I respect what you are saying, but we will have to agree to disagree. Barry

I disagree. Almost anyone in the world can identify a Boy Scout uniform. It represents character and integrity. Even after the Girl Scouts did away from their traditional uniform, it was still the uniform used in movies because it identifies with the organization worldwide. I understand that the GSUSA is moving back toward that uniform. Barry

Success comes from implementing a program that works toward a successful vision. The BSA lacks leadership that believes, much less understands the vision of developing moral and ethical decision makers. I get it, I struggled convincing many parents that giving scouts the independence to learn from their decisions in an outdoors environment is a successful path for building citizens of character and leaders of integrity. But, if organization leaders don’t believe it, how can the users believe in it. Barry

Unfortunately, I've seen many heavy handed non-religious adult troops decompose. Sadly, one does not have to be religious to be zealot. Barry

Anyone heard of LDS troops? There are a lot of COs that require church membership because the units are part of their youth program. I know of one Troop that only registered home schoolers because the Troop was the socializing part of their program. I think it's a benefit for the BSA that Scouting can be a tool for programs that need an organize youth program. We are likely to see more of it since girls can be member now. Barry

I remember someone from National in the early 90's saying the majority of scout abuse complaints were filed against the MB Counselors. This might be an approach to addressing that issue. Barry

Yes, true. But often the adults expect action quicker than the scouts maturity allows. They just go a little slower because they don't yet have the life skills of acting on discovery. Or the scouts may not yet feel enabled to act freely. That happens a lot and youth learning to trust adults takes a while. Adults can say it all day long, but it's their actions that take to the scouts. Mentoring is the skill of guiding the mentored to discover the problem and create and action. Those kinds of mentoring skills take a lot of practice and risks because human nature doesn't change until annoyance drives us to make the effort to change. But, sometimes the mentor has to cross the line to know the limits of mentoring discovery and change to pushing so hard that the mentored quit having fun and would rather stay home to play video games. Scouting for adults in a "scout run" program is a lot harder than in a "adult run" program because the adults in the scout run program mentor each scout individually. Where as adults in the adult run program guide, coach, and mentor by groups, leaving out individual decision making. For example. Scouts in an adult run troop tend to all dress exactly alike because that is no tolerance for individual choices in wearing the uniform. Adults in adult run troops tend to measure their program by how the scouts behave and look as a group. On the other hand, the adults in the scout run program want scouts to discover their the value traits that lead to their choices by providing a safe environment where scouts aren't intimidated to make choices based from their personal values. We humans don't feel motivated to change our values until we find ourselves annoyed by our bad choices. The adults have to let the scouts make choices that end up as an annoyance to them. The parent in us adults struggle to watch scouts screw up. Scout run troops eventually function better and with higher maturity than adult run troops because the scouts have disciplined themselves to serve each other, which results in fun program with great leadership. Youth run troops tend to have older scouts and have more fun. The scouts have learned and practiced the skills of planning fun activities and following through to make them happen. That takes a while, but when it happens, the adults struggle to keep up. Barry