Eagledad

Maybe more than that. Your time as a coach, youth teacher, counselor, and school volunteer as well. You could loose your job and get asked to leave other organizations. Seems nobody really knows how far this can go. So to suggest that scouting is the only risk appears naive. Even you suggest you will report to National at the drop of the hat, I can't imagine volunteering around 3 or 4 Buggies. My time as a volunteer just a few years ago was far simpler. I'm not sure the risk is worth it with the new policies. And lets not get tunnel vision on the types of actions that could be considered harmful. We asked a lot of adults to stay clear of scout activities as a result of something they said or did. We had one lawyer surprise us with a visit because their clients son didn't like the cussing from one of the adults. None of those actions were sexual in nature. Can you imagine an adult just having a bad day and letting go of a few four letter words. And it could just be something considered politically incorrect, like smoking in view of the scouts. Scouting is way to hard. after reading Buggies posts, I would insist leaders give clear written warning of how they will handle adults actions that are viewed unsafe. Training isn't enough warning if all reports are going to National. Barry

When adults are confronted with decisions without information, they think methodically. So, a methodical checklist should be the very minimum of information they can rely on. Most units used the "Tour Permit" as a checklist. What of the checklist did they have? Also, I've said many times that the best way to drive broad habits of policy in all the units is through training. If the items of the checklist are taught and supported in training as actions of a quality unit, the units will likely reference it. At least to some degree. And, when a unit is struggling, the first check of the program would be the checklist. So, "go succeed" is not a request, it's an integrated part of the process. Barry

My experience with the JTE is that while it can be a good checklist to evaluate the program, it also encourages fudging to reach a passing grade. The challenge is using JTE as educational without ranking the program on a pass/fail scale. The Tour Permit (that isn't used anymore) was a good checklist for guiding units without ranking (judge) the unit. It simply gave a minimal list for traveling and perform scouting activities safely. I have watched unit leaders spend hours trying to justify passing on FTEs. Barry

Im retired from scouts, so I haven’t had the training. What happens to the adult who is reported? Is there a chance to defend against the accusation? Barry

There are two types of Venturing units: units where the adults are sponsors, and units where the adults are adventurers. Sponsors have passion for the theme and tend to stay around for years. Adventure adults are in it to continue troop adventure and usually drop out in 3 years. If I really wanted to measure current changes on the Venture program, I would look at units at least 10 years old. If those units are dropping out, the BSA has a real problem. Barry

Indeed. Religion, especially Christianity, is being so demonized as hate that even an open discussion of understanding how it positively helps youth resist porn might not be tolerated. Barry

Just so volunteers know exactly what they are getting into, to whom is the violation reported and does it go on some permanent record? Barry

Wow, that is a very interesting article. I have a question, However, in the last paragraph, the author states we can do ""We do our children a great disservice when we send them negative messages about their emerging sexuality. Instead, we need to guide them into healthy patterns of sexual behavior that will serve them for the rest of their lives." What are the negative messages? Healthy patterns of sexual behavior? If religious youth are less likely to indulge in porn, what are their patterns? Seems like the article created more questions than information given. Barry

The difference between construct and pride is the difference between an intellectual direction and defensive posturing. Even in construct, idealism requires minimum instruction. Barry

Can random philosophy save the ego! 🤔 Barry

Wished I thought of the bar location. Barry

Well, maybe,but a Visionary is one who sees the big picture and understands where the little pieces fit to make the big picture reach the goal. I do understand the 10 great leaders theory and can’t disagree, but one good visionary can get most volunteers of mediocre abilities to be productive because they match their skills with specific program needs. I witnessed a visionary place a volunteer with basically no skills in a position that matched what little she had to offer. She earned the Silver Beaver for her noble effort in improving the district program. If just following the program and leadership structure was all it took to get units at the top of their game, most units would be there. But, the average volunteer can’t get their arms around the program today because it has grown to complicated. The real crime here is as you say, those special people are just waiting to be asked. That is why I said find that one adult for the troop of 4 scouts, and that person will make it a great troop again. Just needs to be asked. Barry

Good post. Idealistic, but this should be the visionary model of every council. The higher the visionary in the organization, the broader the success of the organization. I posted a few times lately that the quality of units are directly related to the quality of the district leaders. And of course the quality of the council is directly related. But not always. I have experienced strong district leaders who leverage their power over weak paid council representatives. So, nothing is guaranteed. As I have said before, the best councils and districts are the ones that express vivid visions that units can understand and follow, and recruit the right leaders in positions to match the required skills to develop the units. I think this is where Churkhardt is going. The situation at the district level can be a paradox; leadership without vision don't typically recruit skilled leaders. And if they don't respect vision, they aren't likely to replace themselves with visionary substitutes. There are many successful councils like Cburkhardt's out there, but they are lucky because there aren't that many visionaries like Cburkhardt in high positions. Barry

Ask the organizer (might not be the Scout shop) because it depends on them. They usually have a plan for delivering the gift and many don't want it wrapped so they can verify the gift. Barry

I kind of agree with Jameson, there may be more to the story. I don't agree that 5 scouts can't have a good outdoor program, they just need to find the right adult. If I were 2 hours closer, I might even look into it. I've hunted in that part of the state and Coweta sits in the middle of some of Oklahoma's most beautiful country and lakes (Green County). And it's only a few minutes from city. Ideal really. The DE, or even the SE, need to start searching for that one adult. The program that the adults gets going will bring in the scouts. Barry

That is how it is typically done in functioning troops, but I remember when we started our troop, expert resources were thin. Starting with the procedure that you want to continue with the for years down the road is the right way to go. But, if you have a tent expert on the Committee, certainly consider all your resources while developing procedure for a scout run program. I hope I'm not saying something that breaks the Scoutmaster image, but I didn't know everything when I was scoutmaster. There, I said it. No earthquakes yet. Delegate and watch. Barry

That's quite an assumption there. I'm going to assume that you haven't camped much in Oklahoma. Barry

Yes, sounds like to many cooks in the kitchen. I agree with empowering the smart people, or person. Look for the expert to ask the right questions for considering the right selection. Budget may be one of those questions, but you don't need a whole committee to make that point. And keep the PLC in the discussion. As for the tent itself, I agree that the Timberline is a fine tent for scouting in general, but it doesn't hold well in the Oklahoma winds. They tumble away really well, which is why dome tents are more popular here. Just an example of why you need to ask the right questions, and other troops would be a great start. Barry

I agree fully. I've told this story many times, but it seems to apply a lot; after the scouts went to their activities on a campout, I was walking a trail with an ASM that had joined 6 months earlier. He had also been on 6 camp outs so far. I asked him what he thought of our troop after six months, he said, "I'm surprise to learn that even though the adults try to keep a measurable out-of-sight distance away from the scouts, their behavior very much mimics the adults'. Role modeling is very powerful and their attitudes of everything will eventually be seen through the scouts. Even if the adults detest the uniform, but force themselves to wear it, their scouts will eventually express (or expose) the adults hypocrisy. Which is why I agree with ParkMan's other point, "As Scoutmaster you want adult support for transformative decisions.". The more successful troops recruit adult staffs who agree with the Scoutmaster's program. All in, or not welcome, is the unmentioned rule of successful units because while Scoutmasters can verbally direct scouts to act like scouts, a cohesive scout culture intuitively builds the scouts naturally. I learned over the years of observing troops that the two most challenging methods for both the adults and scouts is "Uniforming" and "Advancement". Ironically the reason those methods are a challenge is because each group have apposing priorities for using the methods in their scouting experiences. Adults typically want uniforming and advancement for their vanity of showing off the idealistic scout. Uniforming and advancement are just bothersome actions that get in the way of the adventure youth want from the scouting program. The purity of role modeling is the middle ground where the two groups come together, even they don't see it. So, the more pure the program goals are for the scouts, the more pure the adults will role model the program. And the more authentic the scouting experience will be for the scouts. Barry

Interestingly there are management concepts for this; once a person goes through puberty, they by nature don't like change. I'm sure there is some primal reason for the resistance, but the solution is to first sell the new idea or change, once there is desire for the change, then there has to be process of teaching the actions for the change along with a positive experience. Most Scoutmasters are pretty good salesmen, I think the hiccup comes with teaching and experience. If the SM is trying something new, the change has not been perfected enough for teaching and positive experience. Even knowing all that, my experience was older scouts were happiest with minimal change. Barry

Excellent advice. When asked to think about it, seems like most Wood Badge participants find they wear several hats. While on staff, I guided the participants to do exactly as ParkMan advised, pick the one position that intrigues you the most and focus on doing that one thing very well. It's good advice. One CM was also the Webelos leader and Tiger leader. I showed her the skills of delegating and recruiting. As just a CM, her pack doubled in size. One really good Pack CC realized his skills would benefit hundreds more boys at the district level. I really don't think what Parkman is saying is profound, I think it's what most of us want but are afraid to do. Barry

I tell every new Scoutmaster with plans for changing the current culture to support two programs. The young scout program where your change will come from, and the older scout program that basically continues the same program. The human nature of youth 14 and older DON"T LIKE CHANGE" and I have yet to meet a Scoutmaster who successfully converted their older scouts to the new program. Bend a little maybe. Push as much as your willing to tolerate, but don't let the frustration interrupt working the younger scouts. Don't die on this hill, it's not worth it. Help them with their Eagle as much as they ask, but step back otherwise. Barry

Interesting that you think the BSA will survive. I'm not so sure. They certainly don't have the resources of the church. If the BSA does survive, the program won't be recognizable as the traditional youth camping program of the past. I guess it's more a matter of what level of sacrifice is satisfactory justice. Barry

I would just call district first, and then council to ask for contacts with a lot of Northern Tier experience. Then go from there. We did all our training with someone that has 30 years of Northern Tier experience and some of that wasn't even near the water, like how to pack a canoe correctly or how to lift a canoe over your head. You might learn of more contacts who have access to canoes from the first contacts. All that is good, but unlike rivers with a current, wind is the big driver of fatigue on large lakes. I don't understand the science, but it doesn't matter what direction your paddling, you always have a headwind. What should take one hour to cross on a calm day could take two or even three hours in a head wind. Unlike hiking, if you stop to take a break, you loose ground, so stopping isn't really an option. The exercises with the most benefit is moderate exercise for at least 20 minutes or more. Even a 3 mile fast walk 3 times a week that gets the heart rate up would be fine. Or interval training (HIIT). Interval training can be done with any exercise, but lets use walking as an example; warm up for 5 minutes with moderate walk, then a very fast walk for 1 minute with a moderate rest walk for 2 minutes. Do that five times and you will feel the burn. I suggest something like that because most scouts don't go to gyms to get in better shape. Truth is most youth are in pretty good shape, it's the adults who need to get in shape. But, if you ask the scouts to do a couple of 3 miles runs a week, they don 't seem to mind. As for carrying gear, smaller scouts carried smaller loads, while the larger scouts carried heavy backs and canoes. The advantage of portaging is that you can, and will, go back for second loads. Hopefully you don't need to go back for the 3rd. Barry

Training is a very good idea. We had one adult who seem to always have an excuse for not making practice, and he regretted it the whole trip. He expressed once at the evening meal how he couldn't wait to reach portage to rest is aching paddling muscles only to hate the work of portage itself. It was a cycle that made him dread getting up every morning. But I always felt sorry the most for his son who had to defend his dads constant whining. Looking back, I believe learning and practicing to load and unload a canoe at portages is the most important skills for first time Northern Tier crews. Yes, practicing strokes is good too, but when you have 6 or 8 canoes waiting at a portage entry for YOU to load or unload your canoe, you start to respect your ability to unload heavy packs and lift a canoe over your head while standing on slippery uneven rocks. It's a team sprint and the better each member understand their role when the canoe comes to a stop, the faster the crew gets on the water or portage trail and out of the way of the other crews. I remember our crew of 4 canoes holding at a small portage entry in the water for over an hour waiting for two crews of girls scouts (8 canoes) to unload their canoes. Some on the portage entries only allow one canoe at a time. Not blaming the girls at all, it was just bad luck that two crews reached the single canoe entry at the same time. But, it does emphasis the importance of skills for getting in and out in a timely manner. If every member of the crew can learn and practice the technique of lifting gear out of the canoe and lifting canoe out of the water over their head, they will be way ahead of the learning curve. As much as inexperienced crews anticipate padding that first lake, it's the first portage that exposes their hard skills. Second on my list of skills is using the map and compass. All islands and hills look a like from the middle of lakes. Barry