Eagledad

Once every few years many of us like to have a philsophical discussion of Aims and Methods. It's not about correcting the current Aims and Methods, it's really more personal perspectives of how we view them as goals and tools. I always find some interesting approaches that I hadn't thought about before. I start just to give an idea of the direction of the discussion. First lets list the Aims (goals for the adults to guard the program), and Methods ( Scouts actions for reaching the Aims (goals)). Aims: Character Development Leadership Development Citizenship Training Personal fitness Methods: Scouting Ideals. Patrols. Outdoors. Advancement. Personal Growth. Adult Association. Leadership Development. Uniform I have over the years developed a style of using the Methods of scouting ideals, Patrols, outdoors and adult association to reach the goals of advancement, personal growth, leadership development and uniform for reaching the Aims. Personal growth is a direct result of my four choice Methods and the major contributor toward the Aims. Leadership Development is a natural development of participation with the patrol. I found leadership role modeling does more for leadership growth than any other type of development. For me, Uniform is not only how the scout presents themselves in the patrol, but also how they fit as part of the flow of the team. Uniformity is both a personal and team responsibility and requires constant practice for developing a functional team, or patrol. In fact, I would say that Uniform, or team uniformity, is the main contributor to leadership development. Uniformity is also an equal partner with leadership for the most challenging decisions scouts make during their scouting career. I will also note that these are decisions that challenge adults the most and more often than not take the responsibility off the scouts to ease their own struggle. Advancement is also the direct result of Patrol activities. Making it a Method doesn't make sense to me since the patrol activities should be practicing most of the requirements in the woods. I find it interesting that National added Leadership Development to the Aims last year. Putting Leadership development in both the Aims and Methods proves to me that they don't understand how Scouting works for personal growth. THAT BEING SAID, I have always felt that Leadership Development should be a goal, not a method. Making it a Method forces the adults to make the leadership proactive when development is a reactionary part of scouting. I could be talked into taking Scouting Ideals out of my Methods list because they are really tools for the scouts to use in their actions during scouting activities. Cooking is another tool used in Patrol method and we don't require it as a method, why not think of scouting ideals the same. Well, probably because if we don't focus on them somewhere, the adults will loose sight of them in personal growth. So, that is the starting place of the discussion. I hope you all will consider the discussion and give an opinion. There is not right or wrong answer. Just a personal philosophical opinion of how you see Aims and Methods working toward the goals of building ethical decision makers. And, I hope the discussion is food for thought with the newer leaders struggling to develop a vision for their scouts. I know a discussion similar to this gave me some direction in my leadership style. Barry

This is kind of interesting in many different ways. I wonder if he was ever a scout. https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-military-cadet-pennsylvania-tent

I've told this story before, But I enjoy telling it, so I beg for your patience. Our older scouts spent a month planning a simulated car wreck on a road at one of our local camps. The did research for making fake blood, bones and exposed muscle tissue to add the realism. Our troop was camping at the camp that month and SM decided the troop should hike in the last mile where they hiked into the simulated wreck. It was interesting to watch the scouts; at first they weren't sure what to do, so they walked slowly up to the wreck studying the situation, which is what first responders are supposed to do so they don't walk into danger. But for the scouts, it was more of preparing to see the worst. They finally built the courage to walk fast analyse the scene. It only took them a few seconds to realize it was the older scouts in their troop and the scene was fake. The older scouts encourage them to try and they did pretty good. Then the older scouts reviewed how the did and how they could do better next time. It was fun. Three months later the troop was driving to summer camp and happened on a SUV that rolled over just seconds before we got there on the rain slick road. Three of our adults where doctors, so they took over checking the driver and passenger (who worked at the camp where we were going). Because we were afraid another car was going to come around the curve and loose control on the slick road, we moved everyone else back about 100 yards. I'll never forget the scout who looked at me and said " you gave us all that training and now you won't let us work". He was serious, and I felt bad about it. It was hard to explain that his safety came first. During my 10 years with the troop, we had several scouts and past scouts make the front pages for giving first responder aid at an accident scene. One past scout (Eagle), resuscitated a toddler who was found unconscious in a pool. Our troop always planned a month worth of activities specifically on first-aid. You just never know what little bit of information learned during scout training will be a life changing recovery for someone in an accident. First aid for me as a scout was hard to learn because we never trained it realistically like simulated wreck. Adding more realism to the training has more learning impact, but it also gave the older scouts a lot of pride. They took that experience to their OA activities and camporees. Barry

One way a SM can stay in touch with the scouts is to send them a few " How Not To Start A Fire" Youtube videos. There are plenty out there and the scouts will be entertained. The SM can finish by saying, "Can't wait to show you fun and safe starting skills. See you soon". Could do the same with First Aid "Burns" and badly tied knots. Barry

As you know, there is a lot of discussion about using advancement instead of adventure as the driver scout activities. The thing is that the at the heart of it, scouting is about using adventure to motivate a youth to make decisions that guide them toward personal growth. How or why or what is dependent on the individual scout. Each has their own want from scouting that encourages them to want more from scouting. Only the adult can take that away, which happens a lot. And is the reason many of us preach ADVENTURE, NOT ADVANCEMENT! But, for some scouts, rank is their goal, their adventure to drive more into this scouting stuff. Their passion isn't to be the highest rank, but reach a rank that proves they are doing the scouting stuff. Nobody wants to squelch that passion because it's momentum. And we want to use that momentum to drive toward more adventure. See, from our perspective, the more the scout get's into the adventure, the more they are making decisions that steer them into personal growth. We just need to make sure the scout knows when they make bad decisions and how to make the next decision the right decision. That is personal growth. All that to say that you do what you need to do for the scout so that she doesn't loose momentum for adventure. And, make sure that she grows from the experience. I don't know how to advise you beyond that. But, if a scout is using 7 Methods for the adventure and Advancement just happens to benefit from the actions of other 7, I don't think scouting can get much better than that. Barry

Is that in the ILOS syllabus? Barry

You just described the forum. Barry

Hmm!. So, during this strange time of spending of lives in our homes with a computer, your suggestion is wait for an unscheduled course with a unknown staff of unknown experience to learn a few tricks that will make camping more comfortable. Sometimes I worry about you. Barry

Stuff the tent into the storage bag instead of folding and rolling because the folds can wear thin spots that leak. Stuffing doesn't have any fold spots to wear. Stuffing the tent in the backpack is easier and faster because it can be stuffed into voids around the other gear. Give the poles to your partner. They think they are getting the better part of the deal. Barry

I used to visited a friend in the mornings a few years ago to enjoy a cup of coffee with him. I was impressed with his talking microwave and would take the opportunity to warm up my coffee just to hear it talk. My friend always looked at me strangely when I responded to the talking microwave's "HI", with my "And A Good Morning To You". One morning his wife walked in the kitchen and placed her muffin in the microwave. She made a selection on the heating choices and then pushed start. The microwave responded with "MEDIUM". I felt pretty stupid. But it's a good story during breakfasts on camp outs. I never used those inflatable sleeping pads, but they were always a long topic of discussion with the adults who did use them in how to get them comfortable. Barry

I KNEW IT! National is terrible at controlling the weather. We need to put the Girl Scouts in charge. My wife says if she were in charge, we would just have beautiful 75 degree sunny days. Barry

Yes, I've known this for many years. But one has to wonder what kind of education or experience National looks for in hiring their employees because the way they run the program doesn't fit any business model I've seen. Oh, they use polls and data to justify some of their actions, but the actions seem to be driven more by a management goal than the data. For example, First Class in the First Year was justified by data that showed scouts in the more successful troops earning their first class in one year. Well, ok, but what defines a successful troop and what criteria is common among those troops. My observations over the years are that the BSA looses more scouts in the first 6 months of a troop program than any other time in the BSA program. The issue for those scouts is the giant leap from an adult led culture to a self reliance culture. If they are scared of the dark, how in the world is the 12 year old patrol leader supposed to protect them? My data showed that a scout who stays with the troop after summer camp usually stays for at least 3 years. In my mind, a troop that keeps 70% of their new scouts for a year have a very organized program with a communication system between the scouts, their parents, and the troop youth and adult leadership. It took our troop four years to make that work. Rank development had NOTHING to do keeping our first year scouts interested, but that was Nationals approach to the problem. But as I have said for many many years, if National seriously wanted to significantly improve membership numbers, they need to scale the Pack program to the 1960's model.They don't seem to realize that a burned out cub adult who quits scouting usually takes their kids with them and doesn't come back later. Troops typically get about 30% of families that started out as Tigers or Bears. What if that 30% could get pushed to 50, 60 or 70 percent? That has to happen at the cub level. And that doesn't fix the first troop drop out rate, but that is a different problem that requires more complex solutions. If a simple engineer can see these things from just looking at membership data and observing unit programs, why can't National? Who are they? Barry

I was referring to National. And looking back, I wasn't being very scout like speaking of their intelligence. I should have said that based from past observations, they don't typical have that kind of vision. There, I feel better. Barry

I personally don't think they are that smart. But,........, no no I tried to give them some credit. I really don't think they are that smart. Well, to be open and fair, you and I have been on the opposite side of the "Aadvancement" method since you joined this forum last year to brag about how your girls were better scouts than the boys because you drilled them on advancement skills. We both have a track record on this forum of our styles of scoutmastering. I also know we adults are hard to change, so this post isn't really pointed at you as much as it is for new scout leaders who haven't been set in their ways yet. Flexibility is OK I guess. But most of us old-timers (I know you think of yourself as an old-timer too) have experienced the difference between the youth scouts ambition for scouting and the adult scouters ambition for scouting. And the first red flag for unbalanced flexibility by the adults is "Advancement". Makes sense when you think about it, the ambition of adults by their nature is self centered. It's a primal instinctive drive for self survival. However, the primal instinct of youth on the other hand is playing games with the herd. Playing games is how youth learn the skills they will use as adults to survive. The herd mentality is natures way of protecting the individual youth until they mature enough to protect themselves. Add that Advancement is easy for adults because they only have to read a list of requirements to set their scouting program forward into motion. Camping, even before the Covid is harder and more complex for new adult leaders. Pushing a scout to learn a knot is a lot easier than organizing youth to plan a campout. But, we have to remember that Advancement is only one of Eight Methods. Are you dividing your balance and flexibility into Eight parts. Let's think, how can we get the scouts to practice Patrol Method while shuttered at home? All that is to say, adults need to think like a youth playing games with their herd. Use your flexibility and balance to get the scouts to learn skills by games at home to prepare them for real life while camping. Give them task that will prepare them for the next campout. Give them a theme and some fun skills to practice like planning menus and cooking or ......... Not to get signed off at home, but to prepare them for having fun on the campout, and then getting signed off. Shift the adult drive of using the Stature as motivation and instead use games to prepare them for their out doors adventure in the woods. You think yourself creative, so create ways for the youth scouts to do scouting at home in all the Eight Methods. Not for the sake of gaining some advantage for rank, but for the sake of getting excited about being a Scout. Leave the sign offs for the campouts with the patrol. Frankly, developing exercises for scouts to practice all Eight methods at home might be the best leadership development an adult could do for their career in scouting. Barry

I'm just not seeing it. Oh, I can understand an adult thinking wearing a badge is the coolest thing ever, but were you a scout as a youth? Given a choice of going to school or going to play soccer, what would more likely keep the a youth invested? So, let's see, Requirment 1b. Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch. Do we really want to sigh off on 1b without the scout doing it? How about, picking up a troop tent and dropping it off at the scout's house so he/she can practice setting it up. It doesn't get the sign off, but it does get them invested. And it's fun. Who knows, maybe several scouts can have a tent pitching race with a phone start. Barry

I like the part where he says polishing requires a little friction in teen dynamics. I experienced the same thing with high adventure crews. In fact, I believe one week on the trail is equal to 6 months of troop camping for getting through the storming stage of team development. The four stages are Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing. But, what a great life experience. I'm sure those youths parents will see a changed person. Barry

Yes, I know. This is not the first time my reverence for skills comes in conflict with those who have a demand for advancement. I'm not sure where the balance is determined, but I am sure that is dependent on the different Scoutmasters. Waiting? Waiting for what? A badge? If you were to suggest ways for scouts to learn and practice skills for the purpose of fun, your noble suggestion might have more following. I might at least read with interest. But, accelerating advancement for the sake of advancement is not a principled motivation in scouting. I could easily see the patrol videoing (Zooming?) together for learning how to build a fire, and then practicing what they learned in their fireplace or back yard barbecue with an observing consenting adult. But, that shouldn't credited to signing off a requirement, just practice for the next patrol adventure. How to keep the passion of the scouting flame lit it more about fun than knocking off a few requirements. Barry

It's another example of inept organization management. Barry

Very cool story and I think comes under the subject of scouting somewhere. "As the virus put more and more parts of the world under lockdowns and grounded airliners, it became clear that the plan to sail the students to the final port of call in Cuba and fly them home from there would need adjusting. Meijer and his staff held a meeting to plot a course out of the metaphorical storm and “decided the very best way of getting home was sailing,” he said. “With our hands at the helm.”" https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/coronavirus-forces-dutch-students-into-long-voyage-home/2020/04/13/b862c576-7d76-11ea-84c2-0792d8591911_story.html Barry

I agree. First Class is not just a rank, it is a declaration of level of skills to safely camp in the woods without assistance. Can a person develop that level of skills without practicing those skills while camping as a patrol? Surely, there is hope that life will get back to normal and the patrol will again camp together. If not, then scouting needs to start over and redefine first class skills. I'm not even sure virtual fits in the scouting program. Barry

The feet will be wet (damp) most of the day. But good socks (or no socks at all I guess) make wet feet comfortable because they get air to the skin. I can't imagine no socks, but I can see if the boots are well broken-in with bare feet, that might work. Interesting. Barry

Most of our crews get the jungle boots, but the really cheap cheap can fall apart in a weeks time. Which reminds me, DUCT TAPE. Just consider that your boots will be wet 100% of the trip. So, either look for shoes that you don't mind trashing at the end of the trip, or a decent pair of boots/shoes that are designed not to hold any water like river/fishing/adventure hiking, and so on. I tried the cheap route my first couple of trips with jungle boots, then I spent money on a good pair of river shoes that I still wear around 15 years later. Really the key to being comfortable in Northern Teir is a good pair of non-cotton hiking socks over thin liners. Take three pairs to prevent the blisters. One pair for wearing that day, one pair to dry out during the night and the 3rd pair as a back up in case of rain. My personal favorite is smartwool hiking socks and thin ski liner socks. There are other good brands. You will spend more time in the canoe than portaging, but if you don't get the right socks, your feet will feel miserable from being wet the whole time. The combination of liners and non-cotton wool types socks repeal the water away from your skin. On the other side, many of the portages are simi-rough terrain carrying heavy gear, so the hiking socks combined with liners also prevent blisters. Barry

I didn't know we were breaking from Badon Powell's scouts. But then, the BSA program does many things different, like electing the Patrol Leader instead of the SM appointing one for as long as the SM desired. While I was a scout, to do anything less raising the scout sign (half salute) where the upper arm is parallel to the ground and the lower arm is strait up was being out of uniform. As a scoutmaster, I occasionally reminded scouts not to be lazy and always position their the Scout Sign properly. I wanted their action to be as automatic to them for the rest of their lives as it is for me. As for the scout left hand shake, I think that just faded away as a result of being un-natural and clumsy. Although we did perform the left hand hand shake while I was a scout, it was always awkward with a giggle generally following. It wasn't practiced at all by the time I was an adult leader. Google Norman Rockwell Scouts and you will find paintings of BSA Scouts saluting and half saluting in the same tradition scouts are taught today. Of course, if some folks here get their way and change the uniform to t-shirts like the GSUSA, I guess the sign can drop to reflect the new BSA. Barry

Strangely, I find NOT touching my face more challenging than I would have thought. A doctor said on TV the other day that if a mask does nothing else, it keeps you from touching your face. Barry

I've been thinking about your situation, qwazse. My oldest son once ask if my life was easier with all the kids out of the house. I said, while a young man I always thought the stress of worrying about my kids would fade as they ventured into their adult lives. But, I found that as he and his siblings grew older, their problems were more significant and my anxiousness more abundant. Grand-parenting requires big shoulders. Peace and Healing for your family, Amen. Barry