Eagledad

Depends if the outfitter comes with you, or you just rent their gear. I think it is comparable if you just rent gear. Prices vary with choices of gear and food as well. We always rented the higher priced Kevlar canoes because the lighter weight is very manageable for single person to portage. The outfitters usually know where to catch fish. We've never gone through the BSA NT base, but we have canoed some of the NT lakes and found the Canadian side Boundary Waters less populated. Canada does not allow motorized machinery on Boundary Waters. Barry

I agree with CynicalScouter. For years our district believed that the SM had to be the final authority on MBs. We use the White Sheet MB application that requires the SM to only sign before the Scout starts his work with the MB Counselor. It took a couple years to retrain the SMs in our district. I could go on with advancement myths, but the point is to make sure you understand the guidelines to fully understand who is out of line. Barry

Our troop kind of did this out of necessity because of seasonal sports, band and other activities. With a members of 100 scouts, our meetings averaged 60 participation. Except for summer camps and holidays when we usually averaged around 90%. Scouts it figured out. Barry

Weird topic, discussing a program whose advantages hasn't been described. I learned several years ago with KUDU that good scout leaders will make any program structure work for their success. Baden Powell Scouts, BSA Scouts, Lone Scouts, it really doesn't matter. It's not the program structure that makes success, it's understanding how all the parts make the whole of the vision. Experts say that 4% of the population are big picture people. Program structures are created for the other 96%. My High School Principle son told me once that the difference between the quality of schools is the common vision of the teachers and administration. More often the problem is the lack of the common vision. Rare is the program (any program) guided by a visionary who manages the small parts successfully to achieve above average performance. MattR and I don't always agree, I'm not sure why. But, I strongly agree, "Try It". Nobody will stop you. Nobody stopped me. Extreme. Radical. Or, maybe the program is closer to the original design because the others got off track somewhere way back. MattR says "If it works then let us know". That's why he is here, and why I'm here. Many of us are here because we have the T-Shirt. We know. But not in the since of "My way of the Highway". We know in the since of principles and youth psyche. The T-Shirt is torn and stained with blood, sweat and tears. I've watch this subject and I have yet to see anything in small brief description of Lone Scouts that our troop wasn't doing. After shucking away all the anger and emotion, Lone Scouts is just another scouts program. Make it work. Barry

""During the early stages of the project, Girl Scouts and FIT conducted focus groups with current Girl Scouts to tap into the inspirational brains of modern girls and gain insight into what they hoped to see reflected in the new designs. "" This is what young adult female designers and current Girls Scouts think Scouts should look like. This is in contrast to discussions on this forum that seem to go away from traditional scouting uniforms. Barry

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/girl-scouts-enlists-fit-fashion-design-students-for-uniform-redesign-and-new-apparel-collection-301117925.html In our discussion of uniforms, the GSs approach for a new uniform is interesting. Appears the designers like a modern approach to tradition. I like it. Barry

Mmm, OK? Have a good day.

I did not have the maturity at your age to be a good Scoutmaster. However, a mentor who I copied much of our program was a SM at age 20 and recently retired from the position at around the age of 60. I don't know if you are even ready, but I will say that I believe the position to be be more of an idealist guide than a adult teacher or leader. Your two examples are extreme opposites, but I wonder which would be more satisfying in developing as a successful program. As a 40 year old father of three kids and two Boy Scouts, I took the safe route (safe being I started a new troop with my Webelos). But, as a young man with lots of energy and few responsibilities, I might have made a different choice. Barry

You simply are over reacting. I'm not sure where it was created, AND I don't care. Origination has nothing to do with you wanting scrap the current patrol method program. AND, you haven't yet given a good program example why Lone Scouts would be a good replacement. You just sound angry. Barry

You seem to be using registration as reasoning for how Patrol Method is used, that is not the case. Patrol Method is team actions actions intended to force each scout to make decisions based off the Law and Oath. Lone Scout was created for boys in rural areas where meeting as a group is not practical. Meeting a few times a year as a group is not a reasonable application of patrol method because the scout doesn't make enough decisions to develop habits of good character. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just questioning why. Since Lone Scouts wasn't intended for using Patrol Method, why would anyone need to try when Patrol Method already exist? Seems you are going about this backwards. Why not instead use some of the advantages of Lone Scouts to improve the existing patrol method. I'm not sure what those advantages would be, but registration has little to do with youth activities intended to drive decision making. Barry

Patrol Method is the main driver of growth in the troop program. How you see it in your vision? Barry

No, just observations. I really don't think all the members recognize it. Otherwise they would trolls. Barry

A lot forum members don't realize they have a record of strong opinions on this forum. While they say National has failed, their posts appear more to just dislike the present scouting program, or just scouting. I am a consistent critic of National where I believe they have neglected the philosophical principles that drive the heart of the program. But the general structure and design works well. Killing the BSA or even making major changes would make no sense to me. As far as I'm concerned, all the BSA needs is an attitude adjustment at the lop leadership levels. Barry

Who would you expect to do that? We can't even agree on the uniform here. Barry

There is patient, and there is patient. Our Webelos den was visiting a few troops in the Fall to decide the one they wanted to join. The SPL of one troop used our visit to teach lashings. Problem started when he couldn't remember how to tie the lashing. No big deal to us because those things happen and the scouts were friendly. But, their ASM was embarrassed and jumped in to show both his scouts and our Webelos how to tie the lashing. What made the situation so tenseful was the angry lecture he gave to his SPL in front of everyone, which was laced with four letter words that my kids only heard when I took on a plumbing project. I think that was the visit we decided to start our own troop. I didn't see it when I was young, but working with youth as a scout leader and coach taught me that patience and humility are the two most valuable traits adults can role model to youth. Barry

Do you not believe there a general frustration? Just like you, I was very active in the forum while I was active as a volunteer. I never felt like the discussions in the forum were out of context. In fact, I believe the information in the forum brought context to the bits of information that volunteers were hearing and experiencing. I don't think so. What I've noticed is that folks don't seem to bring a tone of anything except contrary subjects. Of what I've heard, this is the most civil Scouting forum. The other forum that I sometimes follow has almost zero traffic now, and it used to compete with this forum in it's heyday. So, where are the discussions we had 15 years ago? You really think this a Scouter.com problem. After National passed the homosexual membership change, I remember talking to a parent of a 5 year old about taking his son into scouts. He said they likely would not participate in scouting because just talking about scouting with friends brings up political bias debates. There is a lot of talk abut how the current environment has created the silent majority. Maybe there is something like that going on in scouting forums. They are out there just gleaning what they need from the discussions without having to identify themselves to a style of leadership. Barry

I'm not sure of your point Chuck, but if the youth are chuckling from the discussions on this forum, don't you think they are in the wrong place? After all, forums are by design where like minded people come to seek or give opinions of the particularities of organization structure and theories about how the activities should or should not be experienced. Of course each adult has an opinion on the how's and whys', but isn't that a good thing. If you want some ideas for your activities next month, this is a good place to ask. Sometimes a reminder has to be posted that Scouting is an adult program used to develop the participating youths into moral and ethical decision makers (confident citizens). Many of the ideas I've passed along over the years on this forum I first learned on this forum. The forums made me a better scouter, I'm sure it will you too if you're open to it. Barry

I know two Eagles about my age who are atheist. They went, they saw, they made a choice. If we don't encourage the one, how will they know the other? God and country in the same sentence doesn't mean they were intended as one in the same. The Oath is very directive of who the scout is to serve and list them in priority. One may not like the priority, but there is a philosophical reason for the list. Country represents community and family. Family or community as a whole requires loyal service for the good of their individual members. It's is a continued cycle; the act of service to one drives a wanting desire toward servicing the other. Barry

I believe the policy changes just in the last ten years have driven the more (experienced) dedicated volunteers away. Not so much because changes had to be made, but because there is some effort to discount those experienced volunteers opinions. From the volunteers perspective, I believe the desire to save the BSA would have been very different 10 years ago. Certainly 20 years ago. I use the differences of subjects and level of traffic on this forum as evidence. Folks keep saying scouting has to change. But to what? Who will drive or protect the changes to keep it to something significant with value. Who will prevent the program from just becoming an after school youth program that parents use as a safe place to hold their kids until they get home from work. Or is that what this generation wants from Scouts? Barry

Scouts Canada has been going hyper liberal since the 90s. This actually might be a tactic to appeal to conservatives. Barry

You may be right, but we had a lot of scouts with moms who used scouts to give their son more male role modeling.

Why would so many girls families join the dysfunctional Boy Scouts. Nobody knows BSA is dysfunctional. Very few on this forum even believe it. BSA started loosing itself when National started becoming more inclusive by watering down the program way back in the 60s. It continued with Tigers, more Eagles, and New Scout Patrols. These all contributed to a complicated program lost in mediocrity. Pack adults can barely keep their head above water while troop adults push scouts for advancement and leadership in a race for rank. If National doesn’t believe the BSA Mission and Vision, how can anyone else? Barry

I hear a lot of companies considering this approach, but I think they need to give it more time. After talking with folks who have been working out of their home for years, they aren't so keen on the idea because there is no place to go for stress relief of the work day. In fact, the distractions at home have their own added stresses. One person I know travels, or traveled, a week out of every month and that made the working at home acceptable. Now, he is going crazy. I know another who is planning to do the same thing, but the present environment only allows very limited travel if any. Barry

Guilty as charged. I led into my post with the track record of your opinion on scout uniforms. Barry

If you've never met a Mic-O-Say member, then you haven't experienced true unapologetic dedication. Scouters in that area either love it or hate it. No in between of what I understand. Mic-O-Say is a Super-Turbocharged version of OA. Most members I believe come from around the KC counsels, but many members are from much farther away. Barry