Eagledad

From the OP: “Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately, the facts of the Advancement Guide had been presented to all levels including to council but they have decided not to intervene. ” Of course more details are included, but you can read all the posts yourself and decide. Barry

Really? The scouts take responsible for success in one and grow from the experience , while the adults take the growth opportunity away from the scouts in the other. Let’s not suggest selling high priced items to raise funds for scouts is new. It’s been a tradition at least since the 60s when my sisters and I were scouts. I haven’t seen the Campfire Scouts selling their candy in some years, but if I ever do, I will donate, A LOT. Barry

What a strange situation. I’ve never heard of so many adults at so any levels of a youth organization not want to support a youth’s endeavor toward a noble dream. Why? Barry

I’m on a lot of forums and I always wonder why someone chooses to enter a discussion they don’t want discussed. It boggles my mind. Role model some character and quietly find a discussion you enjoy. All discussions eventually live or die by the interest that holds them at the top of the list. Barry

Lawton is the southern office in the Last Frontier Council. Call the OKC office, which is the main office for the Council and ask for the Field Director because that position knows exactly who you should talk to. If they point you back to the Lawton Office, then explain your frustration. You may not be asking the right questions. Fees, while important, are not really your starting place. As John-In -KC stated, you need a charter organization and a few youth ready to join. Lone Scouts might be an option, but even then you still need to understand how the program works and that requires guidance and training. Barry

There are two offices you can call for help. The Lawton office is the closest for you, but the OKC office will have someone who can help as well. The present situation of the program is pretty dynamic. Fees being one of the challenges. I would ask specifically for the Field Director. They are close to the program and know who should be your professional contact. Barry

Depends if the outfitter comes with you, or you just rent their gear. I think it is comparable if you just rent gear. Prices vary with choices of gear and food as well. We always rented the higher priced Kevlar canoes because the lighter weight is very manageable for single person to portage. The outfitters usually know where to catch fish. We've never gone through the BSA NT base, but we have canoed some of the NT lakes and found the Canadian side Boundary Waters less populated. Canada does not allow motorized machinery on Boundary Waters. Barry

I agree with CynicalScouter. For years our district believed that the SM had to be the final authority on MBs. We use the White Sheet MB application that requires the SM to only sign before the Scout starts his work with the MB Counselor. It took a couple years to retrain the SMs in our district. I could go on with advancement myths, but the point is to make sure you understand the guidelines to fully understand who is out of line. Barry

Our troop kind of did this out of necessity because of seasonal sports, band and other activities. With a members of 100 scouts, our meetings averaged 60 participation. Except for summer camps and holidays when we usually averaged around 90%. Scouts it figured out. Barry

Weird topic, discussing a program whose advantages hasn't been described. I learned several years ago with KUDU that good scout leaders will make any program structure work for their success. Baden Powell Scouts, BSA Scouts, Lone Scouts, it really doesn't matter. It's not the program structure that makes success, it's understanding how all the parts make the whole of the vision. Experts say that 4% of the population are big picture people. Program structures are created for the other 96%. My High School Principle son told me once that the difference between the quality of schools is the common vision of the teachers and administration. More often the problem is the lack of the common vision. Rare is the program (any program) guided by a visionary who manages the small parts successfully to achieve above average performance. MattR and I don't always agree, I'm not sure why. But, I strongly agree, "Try It". Nobody will stop you. Nobody stopped me. Extreme. Radical. Or, maybe the program is closer to the original design because the others got off track somewhere way back. MattR says "If it works then let us know". That's why he is here, and why I'm here. Many of us are here because we have the T-Shirt. We know. But not in the since of "My way of the Highway". We know in the since of principles and youth psyche. The T-Shirt is torn and stained with blood, sweat and tears. I've watch this subject and I have yet to see anything in small brief description of Lone Scouts that our troop wasn't doing. After shucking away all the anger and emotion, Lone Scouts is just another scouts program. Make it work. Barry

""During the early stages of the project, Girl Scouts and FIT conducted focus groups with current Girl Scouts to tap into the inspirational brains of modern girls and gain insight into what they hoped to see reflected in the new designs. "" This is what young adult female designers and current Girls Scouts think Scouts should look like. This is in contrast to discussions on this forum that seem to go away from traditional scouting uniforms. Barry

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/girl-scouts-enlists-fit-fashion-design-students-for-uniform-redesign-and-new-apparel-collection-301117925.html In our discussion of uniforms, the GSs approach for a new uniform is interesting. Appears the designers like a modern approach to tradition. I like it. Barry

Mmm, OK? Have a good day.

I did not have the maturity at your age to be a good Scoutmaster. However, a mentor who I copied much of our program was a SM at age 20 and recently retired from the position at around the age of 60. I don't know if you are even ready, but I will say that I believe the position to be be more of an idealist guide than a adult teacher or leader. Your two examples are extreme opposites, but I wonder which would be more satisfying in developing as a successful program. As a 40 year old father of three kids and two Boy Scouts, I took the safe route (safe being I started a new troop with my Webelos). But, as a young man with lots of energy and few responsibilities, I might have made a different choice. Barry

You simply are over reacting. I'm not sure where it was created, AND I don't care. Origination has nothing to do with you wanting scrap the current patrol method program. AND, you haven't yet given a good program example why Lone Scouts would be a good replacement. You just sound angry. Barry

You seem to be using registration as reasoning for how Patrol Method is used, that is not the case. Patrol Method is team actions actions intended to force each scout to make decisions based off the Law and Oath. Lone Scout was created for boys in rural areas where meeting as a group is not practical. Meeting a few times a year as a group is not a reasonable application of patrol method because the scout doesn't make enough decisions to develop habits of good character. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just questioning why. Since Lone Scouts wasn't intended for using Patrol Method, why would anyone need to try when Patrol Method already exist? Seems you are going about this backwards. Why not instead use some of the advantages of Lone Scouts to improve the existing patrol method. I'm not sure what those advantages would be, but registration has little to do with youth activities intended to drive decision making. Barry

Patrol Method is the main driver of growth in the troop program. How you see it in your vision? Barry

No, just observations. I really don't think all the members recognize it. Otherwise they would trolls. Barry

A lot forum members don't realize they have a record of strong opinions on this forum. While they say National has failed, their posts appear more to just dislike the present scouting program, or just scouting. I am a consistent critic of National where I believe they have neglected the philosophical principles that drive the heart of the program. But the general structure and design works well. Killing the BSA or even making major changes would make no sense to me. As far as I'm concerned, all the BSA needs is an attitude adjustment at the lop leadership levels. Barry

Who would you expect to do that? We can't even agree on the uniform here. Barry

There is patient, and there is patient. Our Webelos den was visiting a few troops in the Fall to decide the one they wanted to join. The SPL of one troop used our visit to teach lashings. Problem started when he couldn't remember how to tie the lashing. No big deal to us because those things happen and the scouts were friendly. But, their ASM was embarrassed and jumped in to show both his scouts and our Webelos how to tie the lashing. What made the situation so tenseful was the angry lecture he gave to his SPL in front of everyone, which was laced with four letter words that my kids only heard when I took on a plumbing project. I think that was the visit we decided to start our own troop. I didn't see it when I was young, but working with youth as a scout leader and coach taught me that patience and humility are the two most valuable traits adults can role model to youth. Barry

Do you not believe there a general frustration? Just like you, I was very active in the forum while I was active as a volunteer. I never felt like the discussions in the forum were out of context. In fact, I believe the information in the forum brought context to the bits of information that volunteers were hearing and experiencing. I don't think so. What I've noticed is that folks don't seem to bring a tone of anything except contrary subjects. Of what I've heard, this is the most civil Scouting forum. The other forum that I sometimes follow has almost zero traffic now, and it used to compete with this forum in it's heyday. So, where are the discussions we had 15 years ago? You really think this a Scouter.com problem. After National passed the homosexual membership change, I remember talking to a parent of a 5 year old about taking his son into scouts. He said they likely would not participate in scouting because just talking about scouting with friends brings up political bias debates. There is a lot of talk abut how the current environment has created the silent majority. Maybe there is something like that going on in scouting forums. They are out there just gleaning what they need from the discussions without having to identify themselves to a style of leadership. Barry

I'm not sure of your point Chuck, but if the youth are chuckling from the discussions on this forum, don't you think they are in the wrong place? After all, forums are by design where like minded people come to seek or give opinions of the particularities of organization structure and theories about how the activities should or should not be experienced. Of course each adult has an opinion on the how's and whys', but isn't that a good thing. If you want some ideas for your activities next month, this is a good place to ask. Sometimes a reminder has to be posted that Scouting is an adult program used to develop the participating youths into moral and ethical decision makers (confident citizens). Many of the ideas I've passed along over the years on this forum I first learned on this forum. The forums made me a better scouter, I'm sure it will you too if you're open to it. Barry

I know two Eagles about my age who are atheist. They went, they saw, they made a choice. If we don't encourage the one, how will they know the other? God and country in the same sentence doesn't mean they were intended as one in the same. The Oath is very directive of who the scout is to serve and list them in priority. One may not like the priority, but there is a philosophical reason for the list. Country represents community and family. Family or community as a whole requires loyal service for the good of their individual members. It's is a continued cycle; the act of service to one drives a wanting desire toward servicing the other. Barry

I believe the policy changes just in the last ten years have driven the more (experienced) dedicated volunteers away. Not so much because changes had to be made, but because there is some effort to discount those experienced volunteers opinions. From the volunteers perspective, I believe the desire to save the BSA would have been very different 10 years ago. Certainly 20 years ago. I use the differences of subjects and level of traffic on this forum as evidence. Folks keep saying scouting has to change. But to what? Who will drive or protect the changes to keep it to something significant with value. Who will prevent the program from just becoming an after school youth program that parents use as a safe place to hold their kids until they get home from work. Or is that what this generation wants from Scouts? Barry