Eagledad

>>They spent almost an hour trying to deal with these guys themselves, and decided that the situation would be dealt with by assigning these guys K.P. for the rest of the weekend. The SPL did not tell any adults about this until late Saturday night.

Happy Scouting All >>My whole goal with that post was to maybe, possibly turn the tide of the discussion more toward solutions rather than pointing fingers or beating chests.

Happy Scouting All >>I personally thought being a member of OA was a more dignified position.

Good Scouting All Take your hat to a hat store and have them steam it. Not sure where you are from, but there a several here in Oklahoma City. Those guys are really good at fitting a stiff hat. Barry

Hi all I have found what you guys are saying is true when the scouts aren't guided in their goals and responsibilities as scouts in the troop. Staff Patrols and Senior Patrols are not the problem. Not that you will have a perfect world otherwise, but scouts tend to get lazy about their place in the troop when they aren't reminded who they are or held accountible to their responsbilities. I strongly agree with VenturescoutNY that older scouts hang around when the program is challenging. Problem is most adults don't know what challenging is for older scouts. I once polled our older scouts on what they felt would make the program more exciting for them personally. Only a third said they wanted more high adventure. Yet, most adults look to high adventure as the cure to older scout problems. Scouts at all ages want to be challenged both mentally and physically for their age and maturity. We adults confuse older scouts as older boys, when in reality older scouts are young men. I find the reason older scouts don't want to hang around younger scouts is because adults treat the maturity of older scouts the same as the maturity of the younger scouts. And we might send an older scout off to go teach the new NSP first class knots, but we tell them step by step how to do it, which translates to the older scout as babysitting. Next time ask the older scouts to design a fun program where the new scouts learn their knots. Instead of giving them what appears to be busy work, you now have given them your trust and responsbility for an important part of the troop program. Set expectations in all your scouts that we are all role models. Role models have the responsibility to teach and live by the scout oath and law. Treat your older scouts as young men and allow them some room to be adults. Our Troop is mature enough now that we have 18 and 19 year old scouts going on trips as adults. In reality, there isnt much difference in the way they perform because our older scouts pretty much run the troop, but they love the idea of officially being and adult. Good subject. Barry

>>I will tell you that I wonder how much value one person swimming against the tide can be.

Run Mark run. This is how I got to be a trainer. I was not satisfied with the program, so I said so. Whoops, now I'm responsible for the SM Specific training in our District. I could have more training responsibilities if I wanted. So what if you do train? Well about three months ago, a scouter friend saw me one morning at a diner drinking coffee. He sat down for just enough time to tell me how they (several students of mine) where making changes in their Troop. Their Troop is big enough to be a district on its own. And they have tried to run the district. I have a lot of respect for the SM, he truly has the scouts interest at heart. But he has a very adult run hand. He has a reputation in the whole state as a very opinionated person about how things are done. Anyway, this scouter told me how the six of them wanted the troop to be a little more toward the BSA program, Boy Run are the words they used. And he is allowing a few changes. The Scouter then told me it was the training that got them reading the books and understanding scouting other than what the SM says it is. Training was bringing a positive change to a unit that felt their program is the definition of scouting. Offer yourself to the training committee. It really only takes a few hours out of your time. And then you can bring a little change. Great subject Mark. Barry

I used the opportunity to tell the audience, specifically the parents, stories of their son actions as an Eagle in the troop. I included humorous stories and stories that brought tears to show the human side of the scout. Sometimes these ceremonies can be pretty dry, so I tried to get the audience to relax so the could feel my heart speaking. I wanted the parents to understand why I felt their son was an Eagle. Most of the guest watching the ceremony are there to celebrate the scouts honor. But few of them really understand the honor and why this scout deserves it. Your heart will warm the words that paint a small picture for them. I am always honored to be ask to speak on behalf of a Scout. Its a blessed reward for giving an hour a week. And I love this scouting stuff so much. Have a wonderful evening with your first Eagle Pinkfloyd. Barry

>>having never been involved in a JLT training myself, It never occurred to me that the boys don't know the rules as well as I do

>>but there's nothing wrong with the youth, even if only the Green Bars, having some level of familiarity with it. I intend to include a G2SS overview in TJLT in the future.

Hi Zak Just a little courious. Do you guys have a plan for switching over to the new Council JLT when National comes out with it next Fall? Council likes ours so much they are incline to keep the present course. Barry

>>National Certificate of Merit

>>We don't have a formal "policy", but common sense prevails: * Only folding knives for everyday uses. No sheath knives. The only fixed blade knives are in the kitchen or the tackle box. * Knives are not for hanging from belts. However, a leather pouch on the belt is fine.

>>After I teach wood tools, the scouts will take a test, if they do not pass. To bad, they do not earn there totin'chip. They will not have another opurtunity untill the next time it is taught.

Hi All Isn't interesting that we don't think twice about driving a 5000 lb car loaded with family down a crowded highway at 70mph, but a dinky little piece of metal keeps us away at night. What is the difference? A camp nurse taught us a few years back that far more injuries come from the saw than the axe or hatchet. In fact he couldn't remember any axe injuries, but had a long list of saw injuries. Problem with the saw is that any flex in the blade can make it jump off it's line. Flex is caused when we use it to fast or put to much force on the blade while cutting. When this happens, the saw jumps and many time hits the other hand leaving a very nasty injury. Even the small folding handsaw that has become so popular in scouting needs extra caution because it's short blade length tends to encourage its operators use it to fast. It's a little ironic that most people give the axe or hatchet a lot of respect because of the injuries that appear obvious if use incorrectly, but don't think twice about a tool that has teeth that can mangle hand tissue pretty quick. Fear comes from the ignorance of any tool. Training and practice is the only way to change fear into respect. I teach the adults in our IOLS class that if they have a fear of any tool they used in the troop, then they should practice using it until they develop confidence. Some adults suggest not even taking an axe with them on troop campouts. But I've seen more than once a scout who transfered to a new troop race to try out a tool he didn't have in the other troop. One Totin Chit works for all woods tools in the scout handbook. Barry

Boy! makes me want to be a cub scout again. Great program. When I was the District Membership Chair, your program is basically what I trained pack leaders to build. I complement you on awards recognition at den meetings. We started doing that and found the cubs and parents really liked it. I like the campouts too, you might consider doing a campfire at a nearby park in the spring or fall for a Pack meeting. A change of atmosphere is always fun and you can roast marsh mellows after the meeting for smores. Oh, I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Hi All Once in a while whether pushes us into the indoor mode and we will do a lockin, or visit a museum. Once we contacted the YMCA and they let us do a lockin there, for a fee of course. Only once did we cancel because of adults, but that was more of a timing and location problem. So we found a site within a few minutes of town to allow adults to drive back and forth. I like the idea of hooking up with another troop. I can see a lot of fun advantages with doing that. In fact, maybe we should do more of that anyway. HAve a great week. Barry

>>This is not a call for the Scoutmaster to make. It is the responsibility of the Board of Review to "review" how the advancement took place.

>>If you allow the award to stand, you are rewarding and even encouraging bad behavior.

Hi all Based off the limited imformation, I would not change the results. However, there are two things I would do. It is important that the scout be held accountible for his behavoir. I would let him know my disapointment and that he lost my trust. He will have to prove himself to me in the future. Then I would bring all the adult together for a meeting and explain the program all about encouraging behavoir based from the values of the scout law and oath. Then I would talk a little about the rights and wrongs of what just happened. If you don't end it with the adults, it won't end. Don't poiont fingers or bring up names, instead just lay out how you expect how the adults will behave in this Troop. Barry

>>depending on the leadership team you get each time you conduct Troop elections. Maybe that's another argument for a dynamic, modular youth training curriculum.

What you just described is basically the present JLTC. It's a good idea and when you work the kinks out, you will have a good TJLT program. I'm not saying it's wrong or that it won't work because we ran something like what you're talking aobut. I am saying that you should train where the troop is weak. I like to tell SPLs at JLTC that when planning their next TJLT, look at the PL Handbook and find the areas of program where the troop is weak. Look at the SPL Handbook and find the areas where leadership is weak. Build your TJLT on those areas. If I may pass a little more of my experience. When you are planning the TJLT weekend, be cautious of how the weekend flows. Are you driving the scouts to follow the agenda exacally as it is planned, or are you allowing the lessons learned along the way propelle the scouts to the next agenda item. We found JLT courses where the staff pushes the agenda minute by minute make the the participants feel they are only spectators watching the course instead of particpating in the experience. I wish you luck KS because I've been where you are at and I really enjoy my experiences working with the scouts developing the program. I look forward to reading your post from the experience. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Hi KS I've done a few of these as well as lockins, and indoor overnights and other ideas as well. We found that the scouts enjoyed indoor overnight TJLTs more than outdoor because they already camp at least once a month and like something a little different. My goal was to create an environment that encourage the scouts to focus on the JLT lessons being taught. Running a TJLT required a lot of time from older scouts and adults, so we looked for the most bang for our buck and two days indoors turnout to give us what we wanted. I think the ideal campsite, knots and lashings, cooking and KP are scout skills, not leadership skills. If there is a real problem with the patrols not understanding or using scout skills correctly, then it is appropriate to include that in leadership training (TJLT). But so many times I have watch troop focus too much on teaching scout skills at TJLT instead of leadership skills not really understanding the difference. Our Council JLTC is modeled a little from our Troop experience. The staff does the cooking and the scouts are set up in cabins. We found patrols spend about four hours or more a day jsut cooking and KP. By taking the basic patrol responsibilities out of the program, we now fill those hours with leadership Development training. It allowed us to shorten the course by three days and cut the course cost to $50 per participant hoping to bring more scouts to the program. Our council has seen it as a big success so far and I know it was at least being looked at by National. Have a great scouting day. Barry

>>Just as a curiosity, in the previous edition of Wood Badge, how was the ticket process handled?

Wow, what great timing. I just got called and told that I am giving the Vision and Mission presentation at our course this April. Since I have not seen the new WB course in action, I didn't realize what this is all about. I am reading all the comments with a lot of heart. As for the tickets, I've already heard from folks in our last October course say they feel overwhelmed by their tickets. I thought that odd because they only have five compared to the nine we had in the old course. I don't really remember anyone feeling overwhelmed by the tickets in the old course. After reading this subject, maybe there is to much emphasis on the tickets. Barry