Eagledad

>>but eagledad's open bigotry kind of got to me.

>>I do believe in the values of Scouting. I do not believe that those values include religious discrimination

Hi all >>I don't see what's gained by doing that, though...it seems like one of several techniques that gives the same result in the end.

>>I wouldn't be coy about this.

>>Today, I would rather work with a group with a shared vision than work on any project where I stand alone with those that only hang on.

Hi all Without having to repeat everything you said EagleInKy, you write with a lot of wisdom. Our troop allowed and encouraged scouts to take turns to pray, preach and teach their personal faith. We did this because we feel a growth comes from learning about each others faith, not ignoring them. But while this policy was encouraged, the scouts were usually happy with Troop Chaplin selected at the election. We adults have to work hard to resist putting restrictions on these boys to protect them from our fears, or to encourage them toward our selfish desires. Barry

>>She needed to be tolerant of our point of view. In my mind, when it became time for her to be tolerant of our beliefs, she could not be.

Hi all >>For pete's sake, if you think some counselor's cutting corners, stop assigning them to your Scouts. Enough with the unnecessary rules.

Boy do I know how you feel. Is this causing any kind of a problem for the boys? Some hills just aren't worth dieing on. By the way, what does he say when the CC hands out a free Committee Member patch to all her adults? (wink)(wink) Barry

>>Isnt this just a watered down version of everyones wins?

>>I told the SM to simply open another room in the meeting place, and shuffle them into it, period.

>> had a buddy CM who accidentally caught his headdress on fire with the flame though

I had a few, but probably my best show stopper was the Lighted Neckerchief Ceremony. It starts with the lights turn off except for a candle and possibly a spotlight highlighting the CM and Webelos. The CM tells the story about while hiking one day in New Mexico, he/she happens to meet a Native American Chief who gives the CM a jar of magic water. The chief tells that CM that truth is reveled when the water turns into flames. The CM shows the audience the jar of the magic water (50% acetone, 50% water). Then takes the Webelos neckerchief and soaks it in the water. The CM then attaches two corners of the neckerchief to the end of a stave or broomstick and holds it over the lighted candle. Flames leap about four feet in the air for a few seconds and then quickly die away leaving the neckerchief undamaged (from the water) thus proving the scout is worthy to continue on the trail of scouting. He then crosses the bridge to meet the SM and get a new neckerchief. The trick is the acetone burns off quickly while the water protects the neckerchief. If you want to consider this ceremony, I will find my notes on the story and all the materials needed. I would suggest you first practice this in your back yard to get a feel for the flames because they can be startling the first time, which is what you want for the rest of the audience. Practice how to get the neckerchief from the jar to the broomstick without igniting it by the candle. I laid a fireproof mat on the floor and had two adults standing by in the dark each holding a fire extinguisher. Its not really hazardous because the acetone evaporates quickly, but a scout is always prepared. I kept the scouts on the opposite side of me while holding the stave far out on the other side of me. I was at least 20 feet from the audience. I also use my own neckerchiefs so I didnt have to give the Webelos theirs back wet. I accumulated many as a CM. Barry

Hi Firekat I think this is a really good question because it comes up in most troops. When I trained or helped train Merit Badge Counselors, I first directed them to the Three Aims and the Boy Scout Requirements guide (no.33215). The reason I did this is because most MB Counselors dont even understand how the MB fits into the scouting program. Most are basically told that MBs are required to get Eagle, but what value is that for scouts who dont get eagle since only 5% of scouts even get eagle. There must be more to the value of MBs than get a boy to Eagle. Here is part of a quote I found on the Internet that does a pretty good job of explaining the purpose of advancement. Advancement sets a pattern of setting positive goals and reaching them throughout life. Even though its not one of the primary aims of Scouting, advancement is a natural byproduct when your Scouting experience is acquainting you with the BSA ideals, the patrol method, the outdoors, association with adults, personal growth, leadership development, and the Scout uniform. I found that at: http://www.bsatrainer.org/Training/Boy%20Scout/Advancement/Advancement%20Guidlines.html The whole Web Page is a pretty good read and also quotes the Boy Scout Requirements guide for a scout to sign up for Merit Badges. I think Firekat, if you read and understand what is said in the Boy Scout Requirements book and counsel each badge under those guidelines, then you will likely do it right no matter how you consel these guys. If someone ask about your actions, how could they deny your noble intentions when you explain why and how you counsel these young men. Have a great day. Barry

>>"Can" and "Should" are probably the key words in your two questions.

>>This is after having been asked by the Pack Leadership to take over for the Webelos, which I declined on the advice given to me by EagleDad.

Hi All I'm with OGE here. You know, the BOR has been blurry concept ever since they took it from the scouts way back when. I've seen the "R" word (retest) make adults run in fear of their lives. I've also heard the question "What was your favorite part of the XXX merit badge?" asked a hundred times at EBORs and I think it's just about as safe a question as one could ask in this environment. If the idea of the BOR is taking a sample of the Scouts experience to check on the program, well maybe this is a flag. I might check with the MB couselor. Hopefully it is just a nervous scout or a bad memory and there is some good advice on that as well. Barry

>>I don't think a boy can be a real effective green bar leader, if he hasn't attended JLT.

Hi All I thought I answered this question on the other thread, but sometimes I wonder around without really getting to the point. We have two scheduled JLTs; The first JLT is a one-time course required for any scout who want to qualify to be on the PLC. This JLT basically; -teaches working as a team, -teaches a few basic leadership skills like communication and delegatio -introduces each scout to the Patrol Leaders Handbook. The first JLT is similar to the BSA JLT course except we add more reviews of leadership skills and PL Handbook. The second JLT is given just after the election and is required for all scouts on PLC. This JLT is short (couple hours) and specific to the PLC; -The PLC set goals for the troop. -Each individual youth leader sets gaols for his position. -Each scout reviews his position responsibilities. -Each scout learns and reviews enough skills with their advisor to get through the first couple of weeks. The second JLT is similar to the part of the BSA JLT where the SM reviews position responsibilities with each scout except that our scouts review with their advisors. The more experienced scouts dont get bored with repeating the 2nd JLT because it is short and basically to the point only teaching skills they need to know to start successfully in their leadership position. Hope that explains it better. Barry

Hi All I have to agree with KS. I've told the story before of the 17 year old life scout who transfered into our troop from another state. He came from a troop where the adults did everything for the scouts. They told the scouts when and where to earn MBs at their prearranged MB classes. The adults held all the scouts advancement and MB cards fearing the scouts would loose them. These adults even help set up their Eagle project and guided the scouts every step of the way. While this scout loved our troop and even became a local hero by saving the life of a drouning baby, he crashed to his knees when he learned that he is responsible for completing his Eagle workbook and setting up his SM Confrence and EBOR. He was a smart enough young man to ask for help and figure it all out, but not without a few sleepless nights. I asked myself many times to which troop set that scout up more for failure, his that did everything for him to make sure he got Eagle. Or ours that pushed every scout to take responsibility for any and all of their successes. The scout in question here has an opportunity to learn a lot from this experience. As well as the adults. I wonder.... Good post KS. Barry

Hey there brother, is that a hint of orange I see in your post? Barry OSU Class of 82 Flying Aggie President 1980

>> I have attended many summer camps during scouting, but never for merit badges, only for adventures, hiking ect...

Hi All Every SM will eventually have to deal with a scout, or scouts playing with fire, or knives or swinging a stave. I will start by saying we pretty much handled these situations the way EagleInKy explained in his post. Man that guy has been in a groove lately. Anyway I dont see discipline as the issue unless you knew the scout acted to spite the rules. Its an accountability of actions issue. In fact, as you practice more of this Scouting Stuff, you will realize most of what adults do is hold scouts accountable to their actions so they develop the habit of choosing right over choosing wrong. This is important because you want to create an environment where all the scouts hold each other accountable. Whenever a scout was caught doing something like this, I tended to get the scout to think of a way to teach the whole troop or at least the PLC about the dangers and safety of his actions. You are then turning his negative action into positive action. You dont have to yell or get angry. In a quiet tone you ask him to admit the harm of his actions so that you know that he knew better. Sometimes they dont. Then guide him to do an action of accountability so they understand that there are reprocussions to all actions. Our PLC got in the habit of making the scouts write letters to their parents and Patrols. Also you want to encourage all the scouts to police themselves. You will always have that one kid who likes to experiment with fire, but its the other scouts who you trust to stop him. In fact, if I caught a scout doing something wrong while other scouts around did nothing to stop him, usually the other scouts were first to clearly feel my disappointment before I worked with the offending scout. It takes a little while before scouts realize that you want them to take responsibility to stop bad behavoir. Usually they are waiting for the adult. Good discussion. Barry

>>Does he believe, in his heart, that he has performed his best in the various aspects of scouting

>>American society has over-emphasized self esteem at the expense of self motiviation. The question for BSA is: should it change how merit badges are incorporated into the program?